Poll of the Day > I don't like ice levels

(+) Yeah! (+)

especially in Mario games. The whole move a few steps and slide mechanic is overused and annoying. Even after adapting its still just a stupid pain in the ass.

anq dont get me started on log rolls..

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What about LoZ: OoT ice temple?

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MondoMan180 posted...

What about LoZ: OoT ice temple?

The only 3D Zelda games Ive played is WW and BotW. LttP is my favorite and level 5 is my least favorite temple in that game.

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Yeah. When I land I want to stop. Not slide around like some kind of jackwagon off his gourd

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I love desert levels and hate ice levels.
But every time there's a poll on environments, the ice levels get a ton of love and desert is the most hated. :(

Firewood18 posted...

The only 3D Zelda games Ive played is WW and BotW. LttP is my favorite and level 5 is my least favorite temple in that game.

Eh...it's not bad. You can do dungeon 6 before it to make the biggest frustration a complete non-issue. I never used to do that, took pride in knowing how to do the block puzzle the "normal" way, but on more recent replays I usually just do the Somaria trick to save time.

Twilight Princess has a decent ice level. I don't love it nearly as much as most (often seems to be the most-loved dungeon from the game, for me it's like maybe 4th), but it's not bad. Great desert level, too.

It depends on the game. Mario is a weird case because I always felt the 2D games had a lot of weight to them even without ice to worry about.

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What about water levels?

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Well, while it is a mechanic, it's kind of just more of a way to be another layer of difficulty... At least the way I see it...

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Ice levels usually have calm and atmospheric music in them and I love that kind of music.
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Soup_or_Science posted...

At least the way I see it...

hey i accidentally made an ice pun

i'm so hilarous

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Soup_or_Science posted...

Soup_or_Science posted...

At least the way I see it...

hey i accidentally made an ice pun

i'm so hilarous

Wow you're so cool!
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Ice levels tend to have really good music

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I agree some ice level music is nice, especially in rpgs. One of my favorites would be from Secret of Mana.

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Youve clearly never played sonic ice levels

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDCTNf569c

The only ice levels I actually like are the ones in Kirby Planet Robobot because they're inside an ice cream factory

https://youtu.be/LwdCGJfwXVw?t=374

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LeetCheet posted...

Wow you're so cool!

Whoa, just chill with the puns folks.

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Zeus posted...

What about water levels?

Does anyone like those?

SonyMichel posted...

Youve clearly never played sonic ice levels

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDCTNf569c

Came in to post about this zone.

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SonyMichel posted...

Youve clearly never played sonic ice levels

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDCTNf569c

Hard Times

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I love snow in games but that does often come with ice. I'm not a fan of the slippery mechanics too as I like to be in control of what I'm doing. Mario 64 I've found is a child of it's time due to these controls with or without ice.

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Aesthetically (both in terms of visuals and music) ice levels are often really cool (pun not intended), but the slipping mechanic can often be more annoying than anything else. I can understand wanting to mix up the physics a bit so people don't get totally complacent with them, but ultimately it just slows everything down in a way that's more frustrating than genuinely challenging.

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adjl posted...

Aesthetically (both in terms of visuals and music) ice levels are often really cool (pun not intended), but the slipping mechanic can often be more annoying than anything else. I can understand wanting to mix up the physics a bit so people don't get totally complacent with them, but ultimately it just slows everything down in a way that's more frustrating than genuinely challenging.

That about sums it up.
thankyou

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I've always found it kind of weird how virtually every game has the same ice mechanics. Slow to gain momentum to run, then hard to stop. I guess it's just weird cause that isn't really what running on ice is like in real life, though that might not make for a fun game mechanic

Slip sliding away!

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I don't like them either.

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Contra has an ice level that plays no different than the others.

Also Ski or Die was all snow levels, and I remember that game being pretty sweet.

I dont mind ice levels. I hate water levels, though... Like 3D water levels. Especially when you need to constantly find air to breath...
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CoorsLight posted...

I've always found it kind of weird how virtually every game has the same ice mechanics. Slow to gain momentum to run, then hard to stop. I guess it's just weird cause that isn't really what running on ice is like in real life, though that might not make for a fun game mechanic

The biggest issue there is that running in video games is treated more or less like driving a car, rather than actual running. In a car, you rely solely on friction between the tires and the roads to accelerate, stop, and turn, so if you reduce that traction, it takes longer to effect the same acceleration or deceleration, and you have to take turns more slowly to avoid overshooting them. Obviously, that's a bit of an oversimplification, because there's more nuance than that to driving in slippery conditions, but it's a close enough parallel that you can easily say that video game running is a simplified version of that.

Actual running, though, is substantially more complex. You're still relying on friction between your feet and the ground to accelerate (the force has to come from somewhere), but you accelerate on every step to counteract the deceleration between steps, and it really doesn't take long to reach your top speed. Reducing traction therefore reduces your top speed more than it reduces your ability to accelerate, particularly taking into account that trying to run on ice is probably just going to result in falling over because you'll be pushing harder than friction can push back. You can counteract that by increasing the angle of attack so you're pushing off of the ground at closer to 90 degrees, but that's still going to reduce top speed dramatically (and that has its limits before you just fall down).

As far as the physics go, though, treating running like simplified driving is a lot easier to work simulate, and given that this standard for ice physics dates back to the NES era (if not sooner), I understand going for simplicity over accuracy.

LinkPizza posted...

I hate water levels, though... Like 3D water levels.

The problem with water levels (or swimming mechanics in general) is that they introduce a new style of movement into the game that isn't used otherwise, which the game's controls often are not designed around. Most 3D games are designed to only allow free movement in two dimensions (which is all a stick can do), with movement in the third dimension being dictated by terrain, gravity, and the very limited active movement option of jumping. Sometimes you'll get flying mechanics, but those often come with some caveats that make them not completely free (most commonly constant movement forward, so you're still just controlling two dimensions of movement). Swimming, however, is completely unrestricted 3D movement (or at least, feels like it should be), which is often kind of awkward to implement while still feeling consistent with the land controls.

A notable exception there is Subnautica: The vast majority of the game is underwater, so controls are designed around that, and it generally feels really good. The land parts actually end up being what feels awkward. Even air management ends up feeling like a reasonable mechanic because you're given so many tools to improve it and gradually work toward being able to travel further away from air sources. But then that's a game that's been designed fully around swimming, so it makes sense that swimming would feel good.

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adjl posted...

The problem with water levels (or swimming mechanics in general) is that they introduce a new style of movement into the game that isn't used otherwise, which the game's controls often are not designed around. Most 3D games are designed to only allow free movement in two dimensions (which is all a stick can do), with movement in the third dimension being dictated by terrain, gravity, and the very limited active movement option of jumping. Sometimes you'll get flying mechanics, but those often come with some caveats that make them not completely free (most commonly constant movement forward, so you're still just controlling two dimensions of movement). Swimming, however, is completely unrestricted 3D movement (or at least, feels like it should be), which is often kind of awkward to implement while still feeling consistent with the land controls.

A notable exception there is Subnautica: The vast majority of the game is underwater, so controls are designed around that, and it generally feels really good. The land parts actually end up being what feels awkward. Even air management ends up feeling like a reasonable mechanic because you're given so many tools to improve it and gradually work toward being able to travel further away from air sources. But then that's a game that's been designed fully around swimming, so it makes sense that swimming would feel good.

What you're saying is, we need a good ice skating game.

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Metalsonic66 posted...

What you're saying is, we need a good ice skating game.

It would probably have more plausible ice physics than the mechanics seen in most games, at least. Whether or not that'd make for an interesting game, I don't know, since about the only way I can imagine it working is to do a figure skating game that was structured like a skateboarding game (do tricks-->get points-->receive validation), but an ice rink doesn't offer the interesting environments that skating games relied on. But the ice physics would be intuitive.

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I like the ice levels that are hard, but then half way or later through them you get fancy shoes that let you not slip anymore. That always feels good.