Current Events > Allen on the site changes and rolling them back

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/6-gamefaqs-announcements/79493671

What are your thoughts?

Personally I never even had a chance to see the beta lol

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I didnt notice any changes

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Surprisingly level-headed given his usual attitude about criticism.

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That took several months?

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As we had already had this redesign up as a public beta that anyone could join for well over a month, and we had acted upon the feedback received during that beta time to improve the common complaints we had received, we were fairly confident that it was at a good enough place to continue forward with the rollout as planned.
sure you did

The_Hat posted...

I never even had a chance to see the beta

it was like gazing into an endless abyss, a yawning maw of shitty site redesigns

The_Hat posted...

Personally I never even had a chance to see the beta lol

I envy you

feedback tickets both

lol this is probably what contributed to the quick change. Probably got flooded with it perhaps even from non-users.
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nothanks1 posted...

sure you did

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it. The sample size just wasn't enough, clearly, and the rollout came too suddenly. It was a good learning lesson, though, so hopefully future rollouts will be much smoother. Can't really say much more than that we messed up and hope to do better next time, really.

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As we had already had this redesign up as a public beta that anyone could join for well over a month, and we had acted upon the feedback received during that beta time

Holy FUCK how tonedeaf can they be. This is literally the definition of groupthink. And then it tops off with the ole throwing of the hands, "HEY, we did OUR job!" (No you didn't you created a small circle of groupthink).

Just awful planning and execution. At every step along the way.

If you follow the Ask The Mods board they got a few complaints. And the front page is popular topics section is almost entirely complaints as well.



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Again, 99% of outrage about UI updates (not just gamefaqs, but all platforms that regularly change layouts) can be solved with an option to revert. Simple. I have no idea why so many platforms force updates on their users who are perfectly content with the way things are without letting them revert if they don't like it.

I also don't understand how merging a game's boards into a single console required an entire forum overhaul. Add colored flair to determine which system you're posting about and combine them into one board. No need to change everything that makes the forum so clean and easy to use.

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I'd be curious if they have metrics on how many opted into beta and then immediately switched back.

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SBAllen posted...

SBAllen posted...

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it. The sample size just wasn't enough, clearly, and the rollout came too suddenly. It was a good learning lesson, though, so hopefully future rollouts will be much smoother. Can't really say much more than that we messed up and hope to do better next time, really.

You could have learned your lesson from each time you did something like this and actually stick to the idea that possibly even if I add in the phrase 'this sucks' into well meaning feedback that doesn't mean 'ignore me'. It means 'ignore the mindless ranting and pay attention to the well constructed feedback in the post'

But you do you.

SBAllen posted...

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it. The sample size just wasn't enough, clearly, and the rollout came too suddenly. It was a good learning lesson, though, so hopefully future rollouts will be much smoother. Can't really say much more than that we messed up and hope to do better next time, really.

How close are you to just hitting the delete button on www.gamefaqs.gamespot.com right now?

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Combining boards and FAQs for the same game on different systems is a great idea. Ruining everything else about the forums not such a great idea.

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SBAllen posted...

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it. The sample size just wasn't enough, clearly, and the rollout came too suddenly. It was a good learning lesson, though, so hopefully future rollouts will be much smoother. Can't really say much more than that we messed up and hope to do better next time, really.

Oh wow I got a reply from you, I didn't expect that!

I do want to clarify, I didn't make this topic to criticize. I wanted to bring light to your announcement as I know not everyone follows that board.

Personally I think the opt-in beta was a good way to go about it, but you could have given a week or two warning to when it was going to go live.

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we were quick to ask for suggestions and for feedback hoping that we could make changes on the fly to fix the things that people might not have liked, but as time continued, we realized that there were simply too many complaints to fix and that there really wasn't a good way to get things operational while still live

Translation: it's YOUR fault the redesign failed because you COMPLAIN TOO MUCH.

This fucking guy, my goodness. Unfit. Someone get the product manager of redventures on the phone, we need a New admin.

The_Hat posted...

If you follow the Ask The Mods board they got a few complaints. And the front page is popular topics section is almost entirely complaints as well.

Wait, what board is Pokemon Sword/Shield Isle of Armor? That doesn't seem to exist. Was that just the regular Sword board that got combined during the redesign? That topic doesn't seem to exist anymore either.

Oh it WAS a redesign exclusive topic https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/game/pokemon-sword-shield/forum/79493282--did-they-actually-just-mix-both-boards

SBAllen posted...

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it. The sample size just wasn't enough, clearly, and the rollout came too suddenly. It was a good learning lesson, though, so hopefully future rollouts will be much smoother. Can't really say much more than that we messed up and hope to do better next time, really.

I fully support the idea to merge the game boards for the same game across different systems, as I've personally had to switch between them and search on all of them for various questions. Can that not be done without a complete overhaul of everything?

Pretty good response.
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Dakimakura posted...

That took several months?

It was actually longer than that. Talk of the update has been going on for least a year or more, and I beta tested back in March.

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I blame RaptorLC

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Yay at the rollback
Never opted into the beta because I wasn't expecting it to be quite so different and tbh bad. The ideas that SBAllen posted right when it started sounded great. I didn't feel the need to try it. I wasnt even aware of the radical overhaul until it was here.

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SBAllen posted...

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it.

Now Allen, lets be truthful. We complained about it and you fixed it by adding the Classic mode in the gear menu. You just thought our complaints about the look was going to be the minority.

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This is good

the only reason I never gave feedback for the beta was because the few times I accidentally clicked to enable the beta, it was so bad I immediately disabled it

i have to imagine this system of opting in to the beta was just a positive feedback loop for the most part

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I cant believe that anybody looked at those changes and went yeah, this is fine. This is the best I can do.

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Like, as a developer myself, I get the desire to constantly improve, but what was the necessity of such a radical change to the boards? What problem with the current forum design was being fixed/addressed?

the boards as they are, after all the incremental change over the years, finally work and look good and modern(ish). Why change?

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Remember too that gamefaqs is typically 5-6 years behind the status quo
so this was probably them updating it to a 'modern' version
we'll get widgets to move to the top soon I think too

SBAllen posted...

We got a very large amount of feedback from it, and fixed most of the common complaints from it.

You know what? As a beta tester who took the time to review all the changes and fill out a feedback ticket, this kind of pisses me off. Youre kind of throwing us under the bus. The implication is, Hey, we fixed what the beta testers complained about. Its not our fault they gave bad feedback. But thats bullshit, man. I warned you about the look in my feedback ticket and it was one of the popular threads in the beta forum. Its not my fault you didnt listen. My feedback ticket alone was like 5 paragraphs on why the new look didnt work.

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@BeyondWalls posted............................

You know what? As a beta tester who took the time to review all the changes and fill out a feedback ticket, this kind of pisses me off. Youre kind of throwing us under the bus. The implication is, Hey, we fixed what the beta testers complained about. Its not our fault they gave bad feedback. But thats bullshit, man. I warned you about the look in my feedback ticket and it was one of the popular threads in the beta forum. Its not my fault you didnt listen. My feedback ticket alone was like 5 paragraphs on why the new look didnt work.

Is there a copy of the ticket you can paste here? I'm curious.

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SBAllen posted...

I mean, the two topics directly below the new one, both posted mid-April, were announcing the open beta for it.

The beta was better when you could just sneak into it via URL, rather than being a persistent cookie that's set either off or on.

I'm willing to help out again, but the 'test drive' board just seemed ignored.

I don't think the site overhaul was the worst thing in the world.

It just yeet out too many QOL things we've become used to and even by the most basic of high school level design standards, it failed. Hell, I'm sure there's high school teachers that would have flunked a project turned in that had as many glaring issues as was reported.

It felt like a proof of concept, maybe a first launch functioning Alpha. Not something close to being tested live.

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Only read a few lines until I started seeing obvious lies. The open beta was frequently criticised as well and her never acted on that.
assuming the beta was the ps4 boards or whatever and not something else

I wish someone would post screenshots cause I never got to see any of the changes.

^Game Info page



^ New topic list



^ New "Classic" topic list



^ New System page

These were all desktop images

Mobile looked worse. Don't have any saved from that.

Thanks! I gotta agree, that isn't terribly pleasant to look at in my opinion.

Oh. That's why GameRaven crapped out earlier.
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@PatrickMahomes

My feedback ticket...

Message From BeyondWalls on 03/23/2021

New Style Layout has decreased site readability.

I mean, there's a reason forums have been using alternating colors for posts since back in the VBulletin days. It's to decrease eye strain. It's not a "stylistic" choice. It serves a very real purpose. The same is true for table lines in the topic lists. It's to reduce eye strain. Getting rid of those elements just makes everything blur together and makes me want to spend less time looking at the site.

I'm also not seeing a way to sort topics based on the platform flair.

As far as inside the actual threads, everything just screams decreased readability. The spacing between posts, the lack of alternating colors, the usernames being reduced to a tiny font at the bottom of the posts. It all just creates one giant blob of eye strain.

And I know what your response to this is going to be, "we're creating customizable looks for forum members." And hey, that's great. But if this is the default "best foot forward" that new people are going to see then I just don't think it's going to have the effect you're hoping for. I think the decreased readability of your minimalistic look is going to drive people off, not bring them in.

The manage user button is really nice though.

...and what about "likes?" Isn't that still the number one requested feature?

I posted a thread similar to this in the beta forum.

I dont know who read the ticket. If it was Allen, Devin, or someone else. But to their credit they did respond. They advised me to try the new alternative style they created which became the classic mode in the gear box menu.

And thats when I bailed out of the beta. It was crystal clear that they thought I represented the fringe minority. That everyone was going to love the changes and theyd give classic mode to us complainers. And frankly I just dont have the energy anymore to convince Allen or Error that theyre wrong. So I gave up and left.

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I went to a game board yesterday and the only difference I noticed was stuff on the right side and it sort of shrunk the board horizontally a little bit. Hardly anything to complain about
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then you missed the actual update, because it was a complete redesign

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BeyondWalls posted...

@PatrickMahomes

My feedback ticket...

I posted a thread similar to this in the beta forum.

I dont know who read the ticket. If it was Allen, Devin, or someone else. But to their credit they did respond. They advised me to try the new alternative style they created which became the classic mode in the gear box menu.

And thats when I bailed out of the beta. It was crystal clear that they thought I represented the fringe minority. That everyone was going to love the changes and theyd give classic mode to us complainers. And frankly I just dont have the energy anymore to convince Allen or Error that theyre wrong. So I gave up and left.

fair

yeah i tried the beta and suffered the same "lack of readability" you did. thank god it never actually hit CE

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The Beta was remarkably different. But I think we could have gotten used to it.

Medussa posted...

then you missed the actual update, because it was a complete redesign

Oh... lol oh well. The only game board I ever go to is pokemon go and I mostly visit on phone. I have an app sonI don't see the site format.
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As we had already had this redesign up as a public beta that anyone could join for well over a month, and we had acted upon the feedback received during that beta time to improve the common complaints we had received,

That is a bold faced lie. People sent in their complaints and they were the same as the ones they got after it got forced on the rest of us.

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Here's the beta board for anyone who's curious. Be sure to check each platform for the game, as making topics in the beta sent them to random places on the regular version of the site.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/576286-test-drive

You'll notice that many of the complaints people had yesterday were brought up across multiple topics.
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pokedude900 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/576286-test-drive

No, you want C64 Test Drive.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/572011-test-drive

Like I said, you need to check each platform's board since the merge caused some wonkiness. If you check the Apple II board, there's even a topic where the mods are complaining about how terrible it is.
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If you're reading this Allen, make the classic mode default. It's still ugly as sin, sure, but it's usable.

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TheGoldenEel posted...

What problem with the current forum design was being fixed/addressed?

Allen needing to justify his salary

But these things are done for 2 reasons. Seo and ads

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