Current Events > Seth Rogen doesn't understand comedians who complain about cancel culture

(+) Yeah! (+)

OmegaPillow posted...

They should be allowed , theyre comedians not role models .

Sort of yeah.

Not to say there should be zero punishment. I never ever said that. This topic is full of bad faith posters willfully misunderstanding stuff and concocting straw men.

I think comics should have MORE freedom, but not unlimited freedom in what types of jokes they can tell. The worst that should happen with a bad joke is that nobody laughs and the comic gets called a bad comic. Big difference between that and ending careers.

---

Clutch posted...

Yeah, but NY comedians were literally making 9/11 jokes as soon as the clubs reopened. He only thinks he has a point because he is seemingly clueless about comedy.

Totally ignoring that anyone who made the jokes on TV immediately after it happened got severe backlash for it?

You'd think comedy clubs being closed down at all would be a clue.

And yes the point was there's always the aspect of timing when it comes to offensive humor. How would you not know this?

---

Darmik posted...

Totally ignoring that anyone who made the jokes on TV immediately after it happened got severe backlash for it?

You'd think comedy clubs being closed down at all would be a clue.

And yes the point was there's always the aspect of timing when it comes to offensive humor. How would you not know this?

TV comedy and club comedy are incredibly different things

---

TommyG663513 posted...

TV comedy and club comedy are incredibly different things

Sure. Especially in 2001 when recording wasn't as much of a thing.

But this says nothing against timing and place being very important for offensive humor.

---

I love how angry Seth's comments made people lol

---

Darmik posted...

Sure. Especially in 2001 when recording wasn't as much of a thing.

But this says nothing against timing and place being very important for offensive humor.

So what is your point?

Do you want comics careers to be effected when they make an offensive joke that doesn't work

Or do you think maybe you should just not laugh at the joke and let the comic figure it out that the joke just didn't work?

Keep in mind, if you're in a comedy room full of people or if you're at home watching, your opinion may or may not differ from the larger public opinion. Or people could be evenly split on the joke or something more complex than that.

---

Darmik posted...

Totally ignoring that anyone who made the jokes on TV immediately after it happened got severe backlash for it?

You'd think comedy clubs being closed down at all would be a clue.

And yes the point was there's always the aspect of timing when it comes to offensive humor. How would you not know this?

Who made 9/11 jokes on TV?

What was comedy clubs being shutdown supposed to be a clue about? I have no idea what you are implying.

And yes, I do understand the timing aspect of offensive humor. Typically its required to be done while the subject interest is still considered offensive.


---

sktgamer_13dude posted...

You are shocked because you didnt understand how people could have the reaction that they did when Kobe died.

Yeah, he has his rape scandal that did kind of get pushed under the rug, but he was literally an icon of the sport. Itd be like if Ken Griffey Jr died in a freak accident. Itd shock the shit out of the world that a megastar athlete from a lot of peoples childhood just died.

Like if you cant understand why people have the reaction they did, youre the weird one. Kobe was a huge part of a lot of peoples lives growing up. Like I said, I hated him hardcore and the Lakers and it still hit me hard that he was just gone. Let alone one of his daughters and all the others who died in the accident.

I am not shocked. I've stated this over and over. You keep trying to gas light me on this. This makes the vast majority of your post null and void. Why do you have such terrible reading comprehension?

I think it is stupid for people to revere athletes to such a degree. People made death threats to Ari Shaffir and bomb threats were made to venues he was set to perform at. Please explain how that doesn't communicate that people are insane in their sports fandom.

Even the lengthy FB posts where everyone had to talk about how Kobe's death effected them personally were downright pathetic. If Kobe had that big of an effect on your life then you need a life outside of celebrity worship.

---

I don't 'want' anything. There's no rule book to follow here.

Comedians can stuff up and bomb. But everything from their intention, the setting, the timing, the reaction and how they handle it matters. This is how it has always been. There's context for every story. Nobody is guaranteed or entitled to have a successful career. It's a tough business. Some people know how to handle it and some do not.

---

Darmik posted...

I don't 'want' anything. There's no rule book to follow here.

Comedians can stuff up and bomb. But everything from their intention, the setting, the timing, the reaction and how they handle it matters. This is how it has always been. There's context for every story. Nobody is guaranteed or entitled to have a successful career. It's a tough business. Some people know how to handle it and some do not.

Yes and I'm telling you that people should be more forgiving of comics making jokes. Comics receive death threats over this stuff. That is absolutely pathetic. No joke should ever cause a great deal of anger. If a joke makes you angry then that is your problem. There is a big difference between thinking something isn't funny which is always more than fair and getting angry which just makes no sense.

---

Clutch posted...

Who made 9/11 jokes on TV?

Bill Maher. Gilbert Gottfried. Joan Rivers.

Clutch posted...

What was comedy clubs being shutdown supposed to be a clue about? I have no idea what you are implying.

That Americans were in a sensitive state.

Clutch posted...

And yes, I do understand the timing aspect of offensive humor. Typically its required to be done while the subject interest is still considered offensive.

That's typically when the intention is to specifically offend and upset people.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

Yes and I'm telling you that people should be more forgiving of comics making jokes. Comics receive death threats over this stuff. That is absolutely pathetic. No joke should ever cause a great deal of anger. If a joke makes you angry then that is your problem. There is a big difference between thinking something isn't funny which is always more than fair and getting angry which just makes no sense.

People can feel all sorts of things. It's not up to the comedian to decide.

If their reputation is in the gutter it's going to be harder for them to find work. Comedians really need to have good reputations to find work. Especially if you're trying to work for something like SNL.

---

Darmik posted...

There's context for every story.

Yeah, but nobody cares about context. They just want to get mad because someone said some bad words.

---

Clutch posted...

Yeah, but nobody cares about context. They just want to get mad because someone said some bad words.

We've spent a large amount of this topic talking about context.

---

Darmik posted...

Bill Maher.

What did he say?

That Americans were in a sensitive state.

No, they were closed because all businesses were closed due to the attack. There wasnt some moratorium on comedy.

That's typically when the intention is to specifically offend and upset people.

Youre really not getting this comedy thing, huh?

---

Darmik posted...

We've spent a large amount of this topic talking about context.

No, youve spent a lot of time coming up with excuses for why people should feel entitled to get offended by a joke.

---

Darmik posted...

If their reputation is in the gutter it's going to be harder for them to find work. Comedians really need to have good reputations to find work. Especially if you're trying to work for something like SNL.

Thats true. SNL almost made a big mistake by hiring someone who is actually funny. Would have really clashed with the culture of that show.

---

Clutch posted...

No, youve spent a lot of time coming up with excuses for why people should feel entitled to get offended by a joke.

There's no need for an excuse, people are entitled to get offended by jokes and always have been

I don't know or pretend to know or care about standup and idk why that's the huge focus of this topic. Seth Rogen seems to be talking about comedy more broadly to me

---

Clutch posted...

No, youve spent a lot of time coming up with excuses for why people should feel entitled to get offended by a joke.

This topic is very much about the opposite - comedians feeling entitled that people find their jokes offensive.

Balrog0 posted...

There's no need for an excuse, people are entitled to get offended by jokes and always have been

I don't know or pretend to know or care about standup and idk why that's the huge focus of this topic. Seth Rogen seems to be talking about comedy more broadly to me

he absolutely is.

---

Clutch seems familiar. Is it Madfoot?

---

pistachio12 posted...

This topic is very much about the opposite - comedians feeling entitled that people find their jokes offensive.

I dont think they mind if people might find their jokes offensive. They do offensive comedy after all. The issue is when the Twitter morality police attempt to silence them.

---

Darmik posted...

Clutch seems familiar. Is it Madfoot?

Ive been here longer than you. Are you Madfoot?

---

TommyG663513 posted...

Seth Rogan really isn't one to act all high and mighty about this. Neighbors 2 was terrible and he tried to make a somewhat female empowerment comedy with zero female writers officially credited for the film lol.

Seth is just trying to pivot his career, because no one wants to see a lazy stoner stereotype anymore. Bro/Dude type comedies are basically dead now anyways. Comedies in general are basically dead. Now we get the MCU and other major blockbusters filled with constant quips instead.

It absolutely blows my mind that people try to deny the reality of cancel culture. Why can't we acknowledge the reality that attempts to hold people more accountable can at times be messy and misguided? Sometimes, cancel culture gets it right and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it isn't about how it actually cancels anybody, but how it effects their actions in an effort to avoid cancellation.

But then at the same time it can be grating to listen to certain comics discuss cancel culture. Certain topics have just gotten riskier and some people want to dance on the edge with that. Some comics are being way edgier than they are funny. Shock value isn't always funny. There is a certain touch required with certain topics.

I'm not personally against cancel culture exactly. I just want it to be better focused and go after the right people.

cancel culture has gone overboard at this point. I would not be surprised if comedy is now just regurgitated safe jokes/quips rather that poignant truth

Clutch posted...

I dont think they mind if people might find their jokes offensive. They do offensive comedy after all. The issue is when the Twitter morality police attempt to silence them.

Seth Rogen is quite literally countering that:

To me when I see comedians complaining about this kind of thing, I dont understand what theyre complaining about. If youve made a joke thats aged terribly, accept it. And if you dont think its aged terribly, then say that.

TommyG663513 posted...

Yeah Ari has a huge belief in not turning people into Gods and tearing down people's Idols

It was clearly Ari attempting to make something of a joke, but reading it came off way more angry to me and I didn't laugh or enjoy it at all honestly.

You have to admit that people got pretty psycho about Kobe's death. It's not surprising that was the one that Ari received the most backlash with. That is kind of the thing Ari was attempting to point out. Also, he hates the Lakers lol

I don't know who this Ari guy is, but I agree with everything in this post.

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

My biggest issue with stand up comics is how they cant admit when a joke sucks and they just blame cancel culture.

Very few comedians do this. Where does this narrative even come from? A few hacks?

When comics eat their balls on stage they normally blame themselves and rethink their entire act

---

pistachio12 posted...

Seth Rogen is quite literally countering that:

To me when I see comedians complaining about this kind of thing, I dont understand what theyre complaining about. If youve made a joke thats aged terribly, accept it. And if you dont think its aged terribly, then say that.

Hes naive if thats how he thinks it works. The Twitter mob isnt going to be placated by oh that joke aged terribly.


---

Ari (and the other comedians named on this topic) all seem like people who could have recovered if they didn't already have a history of saying the same sort of shit (or worse in some cases). These controversies were more like straws that broke the camels back.

---

Balrog0 posted...

Seth Rogen seems to be talking about comedy more broadly to me

Are there venues for offensive comedy other than stand-up at this point?

---

Clutch posted...

Hes naive if thats how he thinks it works. The Twitter mob isnt going to be placated by oh that joke aged terribly.

Twitter mobs latch onto something and move on when there's something else to latch on. That's how it always been. People on there throw cancel parties over nothing and people move on all the time.

How people react to Twitter controversies can make them worse and if it's seen as something that will impact future roles they'll be let go. Which is how it always has worked.

---

Darmik posted...

Twitter mobs latch onto something and move on when there's something else to latch on. That's how it always been. People on there throw cancel parties over nothing and people move on all the time.

How people react to Twitter controversies can make them worse and if it's seen as something that will impact future roles they'll be let go. Which is how it always has worked.

Apologizing always makes it worse. Its blood in the water. The smartest move is to just ignore them. Then they get bored and move on to the next victim.

---

I wouldnt call Seth Rogan a comedian, just a very lucky comedic actor who struck big with movies.

---

Has apologizing actually made it worse? I've always seen people who double down get hit twice as hard.

At least if you nip it in the bud early people go away since you ended the "fun".
---

LightningAce11 posted...

Has apologizing actually made it worse? I've always seen people who double down get hit twice as hard.

At least if you nip it in the bud early people go away since you ended the "fun".

Not that I can think of. People brought up Jimmy Fallon earlier for blackface and all he did was apologize and nothing else happened.

---

Clutch posted...

Hes naive if thats how he thinks it works. The Twitter mob isnt going to be placated by oh that joke aged terribly.

Who are the Twitter mob? How many people are in it? How do they work cohesively? You're falling into the same trap he is talking about.

TommyG663513 posted...

Even the lengthy FB posts where everyone had to talk about how Kobe's death effected them personally were downright pathetic. If Kobe had that big of an effect on your life then you need a life outside of celebrity worship.

Or maybe you underestimate how big of a star Kobe was. He was incredibly influential.

Like I said, youre the weird one. I bet youll be upset to see similar posts when literally any big time celebrity dies. Spoiler alert: people mourn the death of those close to them and those who influenced them. Big shocker.
---

I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who are worried about cancel culture are the same ones who think it's weird if you get offended over jokes made about a tragedy where people died. It's like there's an empathy factor that's missing.

Yes sometimes the goal is comedy is to offend but the question of "what am I saying or aiming for when I am offending people and why is it funny?" is certainly relevant contexts in any of those scenarios.

---

Darmik posted...

People can feel all sorts of things. It's not up to the comedian to decide.

If their reputation is in the gutter it's going to be harder for them to find work. Comedians really need to have good reputations to find work. Especially if you're trying to work for something like SNL.

Getting butthurt over a joke to the point that you demand the comic apologize is not good for anything.

Yes comics should try to be sensitive to others, but as someone who has spent a lot of time in comedy clubs there are people who simply lack the ability to respond to jokes rationally.

Saying comics should do better is great, but that doesn't absolve the audience 100% of any and all responsibility for their reactions.

The audience should:
A. Laugh
B. Not Laugh

That is it. Don't complain to the club owners. Don't heckle the comic. Don't complain on social media. Just laugh or don't laugh. This is incredibly simple.


---

If it's a minority that can't respond to a joke rationally they'll be fine. If it's something where most people are like "hey that's fucked up" they probably won't.

That's how it is. It's show business.

---

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Or maybe you underestimate how big of a star Kobe was. He was incredibly influential.

Like I said, youre the weird one. I bet youll be upset to see similar posts when literally any big time celebrity dies. Spoiler alert: people mourn the death of those close to them and those who influenced them. Big shocker.

I'm not underestimating anything. You have a lot of trash takes.

I don't worship gods in the sky or on earth. If you want to make celebrities into Gods then go ahead, but that would be foolish.

If you cried over Kobe's death then you need to get a grip on yourself. There were a TON of people who acted completely insane over his death.

Are you really going to sit here and defend people sending death threats to Ari Shaffir for his anti Kobe comments? You don't think some people sending death threats is indicative of a larger toxic fandom?

---

Darmik posted...

If it's a minority that can't respond to a joke rationally they'll be fine. If it's something where most people are like "hey that's fucked up" they probably won't.

That's how it is. It's show business.

Dude, you need to stop talking about show business like you know wtf you are talking about. You come off like a guy who has barely ever seen a comedy show.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

I'm not underestimating anything. You have a lot of trash takes.

I don't worship gods in the sky or on earth. If you want to make celebrities into Gods then go ahead, but that would be foolish.

If you cried over Kobe's death then you need to get a grip on yourself. There were a TON of people who acted completely insane over his death.

Are you really going to sit here and defend people sending death threats to Ari Shaffir for his anti Kobe comments? You don't think some people sending death threats is indicative of a larger toxic fandom?

I'm definitely siding with you here.
People fucking die. Every day. Celebrities are just people -- ones that most people don't even know personally.
When I was a teen I was hugely influenced by Elliott Smith, and his suicide barely affected me. Someone who I actually admired and respected - so the comparisons to YoU Don'T KnOW The ImpOrTaNce of KoBe posts are assinine.

Darmik posted...

Ari (and the other comedians named on this topic) all seem like people who could have recovered if they didn't already have a history of saying the same sort of shit (or worse in some cases). These controversies were more like straws that broke the camels back.

Apologizing for a joke is stupid. No one should. Simple as that. Twitter mobs can go screw themselves.

---

bobbaaay posted...

I'm definitely siding with you here.
People fucking die. Every day. Celebrities are just people -- ones that most people don't even know personally.
When I was a teen I was hugely influenced by Elliott Smith, and his suicide barely affected me. Someone who I actually admired and respected - so the comparisons to YoU Don'T KnOW The ImpOrTaNce of KoBe posts are assinine.

Honestly, I think a lot of it is people who have never dealt with a death close to them in their lives before. I mean, I don't think that explains all of it, but that seems to be the case a good chunk of the time.

Like losing a celebrity that you care about is rather insignificant compared to losing someone you actually interact with personally in a meaningful manner. Though I guess if you worship a celebrity then you worshipping them feels meaningful to you. False idols is really all they are.

But yeah I hate Kobe. Dude was an absolute rapist and I look down on anyone who makes him their false idols.

---

Nah my Mum died a few years ago. I don't care about Kobe but totally understand why people would.

Like the Australian Government you need empathy training

---

100 posts later, the defense of cancel culture misses the issues, meanwhile the claims against it grasp at every straw to defend people who largely don't need defending against any repercussions whatsoever.

Yes, there's problems chasing clout and justice boners over perceived injustices that in no way affect you.
But arguing against that only continues to allow harmful assholes to continue harming others. It's no surprise that someone like Weinstein got away with it for so long despite being an open secret. "Cancel culture" is part of an information driven backswing against that power dynamic. Yes, there's problems with it. But if I had to choose between letting serial rapists get off and not being able to make edgy 4ch jokes on Twitter, the latter is obviously preferable.
People shouldn't be trying to cancel "cancel culture", they should be trying to find the bounds and make the action itself more responsible. That's why arguments against cancel culture are so routinely met with derision, because they always ignore the benefits of consequences for reprehensible actions.

---

ChocoboMog123 posted...

100 posts later, the defense of cancel culture misses the issues, meanwhile the claims against it grasp at every straw to defend people who largely don't need defending against any repercussions whatsoever.

Yes, there's problems chasing clout and justice boners over perceived injustices that in no way affect you.
But arguing against that only continues to allow harmful assholes to continue harming others. It's no surprise that someone like Weinstein got away with it for so long despite being an open secret. "Cancel culture" is part of an information driven backswing against that power dynamic. Yes, there's problems with it. But if I had to choose between letting serial rapists get off and not being able to make edgy 4ch jokes on Twitter, the latter is obviously preferable.
People shouldn't be trying to cancel "cancel culture", they should be trying to find the bounds and make the action itself more responsible. That's why arguments against cancel culture are so routinely met with derision, because they always ignore the benefits of consequences for reprehensible actions.

Yeah I largely agree with you. I just see no problem with just calling it cancel culture and acknowledging what we are trying to do. And yes we should constantly strive for it to be a cleaner and more efficient process. Like as you said, those chasing clout and justice boners. People get off on engaging in the cancelling and we need to keep the bloodlust at bay.

I just mostly take issue when cancel culture is brought up with comics. Cancel culture explicitly existed as such well before right wing people tried to own the term. There is a big difference between not enjoying a performance and not giving it your support as opposed to calling for the complete removal of a comic from professional circles. Making a joke just shouldn't be THAT risky though I don't want to deny that risk entirely. I have my own value system and views and I've certainly seen a lot of stand up that I felt very much crossed a line. Then the performance is over and it was like a bad movie and then I move on with my life.

Also, I don't think anyone would disagree with you on Weinstein. He's a pretty black and white case. Not all cases are quite that simple, but I get your point in using him to show how a bad person can go untouched for so long. I feel many cases can have a good deal of debate as to what severity of punishment for said person is appropriate or severe.

I will always point to Al Franken more than anything where I wouldn't call his departure from the Senate anything close to a fair outcome.

---

Darmik posted...

Nah my Mum died a few years ago. I don't care about Kobe but totally understand why people would.

Like the Australian Government you need empathy training

Dude, you realize playing the high and mighty card with empathy is like contrary to the very idea of what empathy is right?

No one has ever told someone they need empathy training without coming off like an arrogant and condescending to talk to people like that.

It's like bragging about how mature and humble you are. Bragging is contrary to what maturity and humility is. It's a contradiction.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

Dude, you realize playing the high and mighty card with empathy is like contrary to the very idea of what empathy is right?

You literally said that the only people who care about celebrities dying are people who haven't experienced the death of a loved one. No.

TommyG663513 posted...

No one has ever told someone they need empathy training without coming off like an arrogant and condescending to talk to people like that.

Stop saying silly things then.

---