Poll of the Day > Looks like a lot of places are now saying mandatory vaccinations.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Basically told to get a vaccine by a certain date or get out. Schools, workplaces. I wonder if it'll be mandatory to get one to fly soon.

I don't see the issue. When I went to school in the 80s and 90s my parents were required to give documented proof to the school that I was vaccinated from all kinds of shit to attend. I'm at a loss that the whole thing these days is optional.

And it's not like the Covid vaccine costs money. It's fucking free!

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People shouldnt have To get something they dont wanna get

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They're free not to be vaccinated, they just aren't allowed to do anything that puts others at risk as a result.

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ArvTheGreat posted...

People shouldnt have To get something they dont wanna get

I agree.
People generally don't want to get COVID, so they shouldn't have to catch it from some anti-vaxxer scrub.

In terms of personal medical autonomy, I don't like it. People should have the freedom to decide whether or not they want a given medical treatment, not have it forced on them by external requirements.

That said, I don't see any way around it. It's really the only way to prevent serious communicable diseases, and with the growing anti-vaxx movement, not requiring vaccines will result in preventable deaths. That's the simple reality of it, whether we're talking Covid or TB, and as much as infringing personal autonomy isn't ideal, that's a lesser evil than causing preventable deaths. It's also not like there's no precedent: med schools have been requiring proof of vaccination for decades because people need to be able to trust that their doctors aren't going to infect them with serious diseases. Exceptions can exist as needed (allergies, immunocompromise, etc.), but broadly, vaccines are needed.

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Most states have mandatory vaccines for schools anyway.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Most states have mandatory vaccines for schools anyway.

those vaccines have years of data
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Haven't we already had mandatory vaccinations?

KaijunoKami posted...

And it's not like the Covid vaccine costs money. It's fucking free!

Thats the part that makes it scary. Life-saving drugs typically cost a lot of money in the US.

ArvTheGreat posted...

People shouldnt have To get something they dont wanna get

I don't want to get Covid, so go get the vaccine, please and thank you.

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zebatov posted...

Thats the part that makes it scary. Life-saving drugs typically cost a lot of money in the US.

Free things SCARE you?! Are you mad?

Edit: Besides it's not even free. You already paid for it with your taxes.

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papercup posted...

Free things SCARE you?! Are you mad?

For a certain type of person, the fact that it's free when it normally wouldn't be starts setting off warning bells, because it implies there's an ulterior motive behind it.

Those are the sorts of people who immediately assume it's some sort of tracking device or mind control potion or or nanites or something. The assumption being that THE GOVERNMENT just wants an excuse to force this on the entire population.

Not that people are entirely wrong to feel that way, or that the US government isn't capable of that sort of underhandedness:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray
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if businesses actually ask people to show a card, I'm guessing there will be fake cards
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Ahh the left and their "Paper's Please!" oh wait that was the Nazi's...meh same difference anymore. 100% illegal. All you have to do is say you got it, if they say prove it say go ahead and try to find my medical records, they legally can't obtain them. So yeah this is 100% dumb.

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It would be unamerican to tell a private business how to run their business and what they can and cant permit.

ifi demand all my customers come in wearing clown shoes then thats my choice And my freedom as a business owner.

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Decoy77 posted...

if they say prove it say go ahead and try to find my medical records, they legally can't obtain them.

And then they don't have to let you in. Again, there's precedent for this in the form of many med schools and other similar institutions requiring proof of various vaccinations before admitting people. They can't obtain your medical records without your consent, but they can refuse service if you will not produce the required information.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

if businesses actually ask people to show a card, I'm guessing there will be fake cards

There will, which is why it's most sensible to just maintain mask/distancing requirements until vaccination rates and case numbers reach levels that support getting rid of them. Anything else is just too unreliable or requires way more logistics and infrastructure than are reasonable to prevent fraud.

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adjl posted...

And then they don't have to let you in. Again, there's precedent for this in the form of many med schools and other similar institutions requiring proof of various vaccinations before admitting people. They can't obtain your medical records without your consent, but they can refuse service if you will not produce the required information.

It's also really relevant for travelling to places with malaria or more-foreign diseases.

Republicans: Businesses are free to deny service to anyone they want.

Businesses: We won't do business with you unless you're vaccinated.

Republicans: NOT LIKE THAT!

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Conner4REAL posted...

It would be unamerican to tell a private business how to run their business and what they can and cant permit.

tell that to the cake shop owner
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Decoy77 posted...

100% illegal. All you have to do is say you got it, if they say prove it say go ahead and try to find my medical records, they legally can't obtain them.

They can't legally obtain them, but they can also just tell you to leave they business...
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Conner4REAL posted...

It would be unamerican to tell a private business how to run their business and what they can and cant permit.

I'm not sure what strange fantasy world you're living in where American businesses aren't regulated at all, but it's definitely not this one. Businesses are already subject to plenty of laws and regulations that govern how their operation impacts the world around them, including environmental impact, noise, zoning restrictions, safety (both for workers and for customers), false advertising... Public health is just one more facet of that. If a business serving unvaccinated customers can be expected to put the public at risk from a major disease outbreak, requiring businesses to refuse unvaccinated customers is perfectly reasonable.

Side note, I like how "unamerican" is your choice of term for saying "I don't like this." Not "unreasonable" or "dangerous" or anything else that you might be able to defend rationally or empirically, but a vague emotional appeal to patriotism.

shadowsword87 posted...

It's also really relevant for travelling to places with malaria or more-foreign diseases.

With malaria, at least, the concern is usually more a liability issue than a public health one. Malaria isn't particularly communicable (not without the proper species of mosquito, anyway, which isn't endemic to the US anymore), it's just super dangerous, so anyone offering travel services to high-risk areas wants their customers to be protected against it so they don't risk being sued for failing to adequate inform them.

Malaria's a bit of an interesting case, though, because the prophylaxis for it is itself quite unpleasant and dangerous (and yet we had people chugging it because Trump said it cured Covid >.>), so there's a legitimate case to be made that the prophylaxis is actually riskier than the disease itself, depending on where one is going. That's another discussion, though.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

tell that to the cake shop owner

tge problem w that is that its one sided.

like playing a football game where only one side can score points. The Christian was protected by anti discrimination laws.

either way vaccination status is not and never will be. Every state requires vaccinations for public schools.

if you dont like the term unamerican then substitute the term anti free market or anti capitalist.

the free market can sea with its own issues and in todays market the internet has become an even greater force for equalization when companies take stances on political issues.

vaccination is a safety issue however and if people likewise want to ride a roller coaster without safety bars and be stupid they can boycot amusement parks that have safety bars

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adjl posted...

Malaria's a bit of an interesting case, though, because the prophylaxis for it is itself quite unpleasant and dangerous (and yet we had people chugging it because Trump said it cured Covid >.>), so there's a legitimate case to be made that the prophylaxis is actually riskier than the disease itself, depending on where one is going. That's another discussion, though.

I don't know what you're talking about, I heard people were getting malaria to help burn out certain diseases. You get a super high fever, and then it goes away! Just quick in and out to burn away all of the germs.

shadowsword87 posted...

I don't know what you're talking about, I heard people were getting malaria to help burn out certain diseases. You get a super high fever, and then it goes away! Just quick in and out to burn away all of the germs.

The sad part is, given the current state of global health literacy, I honestly don't know if you're joking or not.

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adjl posted...

The sad part is, given the current state of global health literacy, I honestly don't know if you're joking or not.

I am, but, it was a thing back in, like, the 1800s.

captpackrat posted...

Republicans: Businesses are free to deny service to anyone they want.

Businesses: We won't do business with you unless you're vaccinated.

Republicans: NOT LIKE THAT!

People in general are hypocritical, this is not news. And you could easily flip that particular one around:

Liberals: Businesses shouldn't be allowed to deny service to anyone on the grounds of race, sexual preference, disability, gender, religion (as long as it isn't Christianity), or any other factors we deem "basic civil rights".

Random Guy: In that case, they also shouldn't be able to deny you access if you're not vaccinated.

Liberals: FUCK YOU WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY! GET VACCINATED OR WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU IN.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

those vaccines have years of data

Those diseases have also been around for generations.

What's sad is that in 2120 that will all happen again and people will have totally forgotten what happened this time around and act just as selfish and entitled then as they did now.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

For a certain type of person, the fact that it's free when it normally wouldn't be starts setting off warning bells, because it implies there's an ulterior motive behind it.

Those are the sorts of people who immediately assume it's some sort of tracking device or mind control potion or or nanites or something. The assumption being that THE GOVERNMENT just wants an excuse to force this on the entire population.

What gets me about that are the people that are posting it on social media ON THEIR PHONE. People seem to not understand that they are carrying around a literal GPS everywhere they go. Any time they post pictures on the internet they are telling everyone where they are.

It's like why would the government need to unwillingly plant a tracking device in your? You already give them your location by choice for free.

Secondly, I keep wondering what these people do in their lives that is so illegal that they fear being spied on.

Third, shit, I wish the government would put a tracker in me. This way if I ever get kidnapped they could rescue me right away.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

tell that to the cake shop owner

Don't tell me you defend that piece of shit?!

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

People in general are hypocritical, this is not news. And you could easily flip that particular one around:

Liberals: Businesses shouldn't be allowed to deny service to anyone on the grounds of race, sexual preference, disability, gender, religion (as long as it isn't Christianity), or any other factors we deem "basic civil rights".

Random Guy: In that case, they also shouldn't be able to deny you access if you're not vaccinated.

Liberals: FUCK YOU WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY! GET VACCINATED OR WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU IN.

Race, sexual preference, disability, gender, and religion do NOT risk people's health.


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zebatov posted...

Thats the part that makes it scary. Life-saving drugs typically cost a lot of money in the US.

Keywords. This country needlessly and obscenely marks up prices on medical and pharmaceutical goods out of pure greed. While I wouldn't put it past them to try to do the same in a pandemic, doing so in stark contrast to the rest of the world would look really bad.

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Mandatory, as in they literally kidnap you, tie you down and vaccinate you against your will? Hell naw.

But "mandatory", as in being a requirement before you go to certain places? I fully support it.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

those vaccines have years of data

So do the COVID vaccines.

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KaijunoKami posted...

It's like why would the government need to unwillingly plant a tracking device in your? You already give them your location by choice for free.

Your can get rid of a phone pretty easily if you wanted, can't do that with an internal tracking device (for the record I think that's stupid as hell that people think there are tracking devices in the vaccine)

KaijunoKami posted...

Secondly, I keep wondering what these people do in their lives that is so illegal that they fear being spied on.

You don't need to be doing anything illegal to not want to be spied on. Look at 1984, V for Vendetta, Brave New World, etc. and realize where this leads to. There are real world examples too, like China, Russia, NK, USA, etc.

KaijunoKami posted...

Third, shit, I wish the government would put a tracker in me. This way if I ever get kidnapped they could rescue me right away.

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I ever read. What if they are the ones that want to kidnap you? Guess what, you're fucked now.

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ReturnOfFa posted...

So do the COVID vaccines.

people didn't take these vaccines years ago
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I've seen the needles used to implant RFID tags. Believe me, you'd KNOW if you were being chipped.


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Muscles posted...

What if they are the ones that want to kidnap you? Guess what, you're fucked now.

If the government wants to kidnap me, I'm pretty sure I'm fucked either way.

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Muscles posted...

(for the record I think that's stupid as hell that people think there are tracking devices in the vaccine)

I do think the origin of this conspiracy is interesting. Bill Gates (and by proxy his foundation) were conducting research for vaccines. The Gates foundation, known for its aid in Africa, was looking for a way to solve vaccine records for refugees.

One theory was a type of ink that would stay in the blood stream, and show up on blood tests. So if a certain ink was in the blood test, they could tell you had a certain vaccine. Eventually, it was determined unviable, and the project abandoned. Only to show up again years later in the bastardized form of "Bill Gates wants to microchip you, he did experiments in Africa with kids"

keyblader1985 posted...

If the government wants to kidnap me, I'm pretty sure I'm fucked either way.

I think you give the government a little too much credit, there are plenty of people they are looking for that they can't find. It's why multiple departments have most wanted lists.

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Muscles posted...

I think you give the government a little too much credit, there are plenty of people they are looking for that they can't find. It's why multiple departments have most wanted lists.

That just means it's easy to hide if you know they're after you. If they're taking the first step, there's not much you can do.

Muscles posted...

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I ever read. What if they are the ones that want to kidnap you? Guess what, you're f***ed now.

You just need to share your tracking information with a small, tight-knit group of close friends that also happen to comprise an elite mercenary outfit that can track your chip and rescue you while not looking at any explosions.

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OSHA has stated that if a workplace makes the vaccine mandatory, the employer is responsible if any employee experiences negative reactions.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

OSHA has stated that if a workplace makes the vaccine mandatory, the employer is responsible if any employee experiences negative reactions.

Does that mean that workplaces are similarly responsible for any infections that occur among staff or customers due to not requiring vaccines?

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

people didn't take these vaccines years ago

You also didn't previously eat the apple that you purchased at the store yesterday, but you know that apples won't kill you.

These vaccines and their respective methodologies have been tested. You simply do not understand or do not wish to learn about the testing processes that occured.

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no data about potential long term side effects
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

no data about potential long term side effects

its a vaccine

why would there be long term effects it just gets absorbed into tissue and your body makes antibodies

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

no data about potential long term side effects

you're having sincere troubles reading the data in that case.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

no data about potential long term side effects

Are you more concerned about the vaccines that are manufactured using known viral vector technologies (J&J, AZ), or more concerned about the mRNA vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer) that have been being tested and researched for decades now?

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

no data about potential long term side effects

There's no data about potential long-term side effects from the apple you just ate, either. Sure, there's never been an issue from every other apple of that variety, grown from the same sorts of trees in the same conditions, but how can you be sure that this one won't give you gonosyphebolaids?

The contents of these vaccines are not new. These are chemicals that have been used before, whose effects are well-known. The only novel element is the viral material, and there's no reason to expect that to cause anything more than an immune response.

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