Current Events > These videos of Israel bombing Gaza is pretty fucking horrifying

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GeneralSecura92
05/12/21 7:36:00 PM
#101:


ZevLoveDOOM posted...
i dont get it: instead of fighting over a piece of land, why cant they just share it?
Because the Arabs won't tolerate any Jews in their midst.
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Delirious_Beard
05/12/21 9:43:26 PM
#102:


bombing civilians ain't ever it

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ScazarMeltex
05/12/21 9:44:31 PM
#103:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Because the Arabs won't tolerate any Jews in their midst.
I'm gonna need a citation for that one pal.

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kelemvor
05/12/21 9:52:11 PM
#104:


s0nicfan posted...
This old chart is propaganda with no basis in reality.

1. There has never been a "Palestine" with those borders and in 1946 that land was under British mandate so the first map is just completely fabricated. It also ignores the fact that at that time in that region you had roughly half a million Jews and a million "Palestinians" living in that region so the colors are also completely ignoring the actual demographic information so it can pretend that there was a Palestine that had land.
2. The second map represents a proposed plan to the UN that was never adopted because Palestine rejected it. Israel was willing to accept those borders but Palestine wasn't, instead initiating the a war in an attempt to just wipe Israel off the map.
3. The third map is pretty much accurate, but what it's not mentioning is that the reason the date stops at 1967 is because that's when the 6-day war happened and a league of Arab Nations again (notice a pattern?) attempted to wipe Israel off the map. It was in this war that they took the Golan heights and the West Bank, which hold significant strategic value as whoever holds that land has the ability to launch missile strikes into Israel in a way that they can't defend against.
4. I have no idea how accurate the fourth map is, but at this point it also represents repeated peace deals that have been rejected by the Palestinian government, and given the fact that the prior three maps were either completely fabricated or misleading I have little reason to believe that it tells the whole story either.

The conflict in that area is significantly more complicated than people would let on, but the only other thing I will add is that something else not represented in those charts is the fact that when the Ottoman empire fell and the league of nations, then later the un, carved up that territory it resulted in more than just israel. It also defined the borders of iraq, syria, turkey, and transjordan. So if anybody is going to question the legitimacy of those borders they might want to ask themselves why of all those countries created only one of them is illegitimate.

Edit: and for anyone who thinks this is an opportunity to call me some kind of Israeli shill, everything I mentioned above is factual and easily researched. I'm not saying any of this is justification for what the modern Israeli government is doing, and I'm not going to accuse anyone of intentionally spreading propaganda. I'm simply pointing out that the actual history in this region is pretty complicated and maps like the ones above exist purely to spread a false narrative.

You didn't get the memo? Facts don't matter these days, anything is justified to generate emotion and anger.

What I don't understand is how reasonable, rational, educated liberals are throwing up pictures and stories from Al-Jazeera to whip up a frenzy without any consideration it's just like Trumpers using Fox News to try to prove some conservative talking point.
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hockeybub89
05/12/21 10:00:04 PM
#105:


Sackgurl posted...
folks saying both sides are equally in the wrong should consider that one side is an internationally condemned terrorist organization and the other is a national government

this should help put the international condemnation of the israeli government in better context i think
Have you seen some national governments? They can be the worst terrorists.

I think it's disingenuous to describe this as "terrorists vs legitimate government" given the thousands of innocent civilians being harmed by this conflict.

Both sides don't need to be equally wrong for neither side to be right. America certainly shouldn't be throwing its hat in the ring and half of our country shouldn't be treating Israel like the 51st American state. I don't know how Israel support became patriotism. An actual American patriot probably wouldn't tell Americans to eat shit and die while throwing millions of dollars at a country halfway around the world.

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scar the 1
05/13/21 3:10:03 AM
#106:


COVxy posted...
Seems weird, given the history, to frame this as if Palestine has never been the aggressor.

*shrugs*
Yeah but I suppose it's not weird to frame it as if Israel hasn't spent the last 70 years doing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, aided by the US.

*shrugs*

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GeneralSecura92
05/13/21 4:08:38 AM
#107:


scar the 1 posted...
Yeah but I suppose it's not weird to frame it as if Israel hasn't spent the last 70 years doing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, aided by the US.

*shrugs*
"Ethnic cleansing" yet the Palestinian population keeps growing year after year.
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GeneralSecura92
05/13/21 4:18:01 AM
#108:


ScazarMeltex posted...
I'm gonna need a citation for that one pal.
Reports exist of Jewish communities remaining in other territories in the low single digits that are on the verge of disappearing, particularly in the Muslim world, as their reaction to the birth of Israel in 1948 was the persecution of Jews in nearly all Muslim lands; these are often of historical interest as they represent the remnant of much larger Jewish populations. For example, Egypt had a Jewish community of 80,000 in the early 20th century that numbered fewer than 40 as of 2014, mainly because of the forced expulsion movements to Israel and other countries at that time. Afghanistan may have only one Jew left, Zablon Simintov, despite a 2,000 year history of Jewish presence. In Syria, another ancient Jewish community saw mass exodus at the end of the 20th century and numbered fewer than 20 in the midst of the Syrian Civil War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country
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scar the 1
05/13/21 4:37:42 AM
#109:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
"Ethnic cleansing" yet the Palestinian population keeps growing year after year.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Forcibly moving an ethnic group from their home region is also ethnic cleansing.

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:42:42 AM
#110:


iPhone_7 posted...
But the retaliation is disproportionate. If they shoot 1 missile then just shoot 1 missile back. Theyre not fighting fair.

*waits for iphone_7 to realize that Hamas shot 1000 missiles*

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:43:23 AM
#111:


scar the 1 posted...
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Forcibly moving an ethnic group from their home region is also ethnic cleansing.

Hamas leaders talk about killing all of the Jews

Yet the Jews are the ones 'ethnic cleansing'

Even though that same ethnic group lives in Israel too and is fine

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:45:02 AM
#112:


butthole666 posted...
Israel is on stolen land.

I don't know. This conflict is very confusing to me. Israel has no place to go. Jews have been being murdered throughout history. So many people want to wipe them off the map. And they only have one little country. Meanwhile there is so much Arab land. It doesn't seem fair for Israel and the Jews to have NOWHERE to go because for years they've been kicked around

That being said, it isn't fair to Palestinians either. So this whole conflict is confusing.

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scar the 1
05/13/21 4:49:41 AM
#113:


HHH is the game posted...
Yet the Jews are the ones 'ethnic cleansing'
Very cleverly calling Israel "the Jews" to be same to mas dismiss criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Yes, Israel are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing. Supported by the US.

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:50:19 AM
#114:


Antifar posted...
If you recognize the failings of "all lives matter" in the context of the US, you should know why "both sides" isn't an adequate response here

Except if black people were going out and killing random white people, all lives matter would have been a proper response

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:51:52 AM
#115:


scar the 1 posted...
Very cleverly calling Israel "the Jews" to be same to mas dismiss criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Yes, Israel are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing. Supported by the US.

I have to think the people saying Israel is doing ethnic cleansing and genocide is anti-semitism talking. Because Hamas are literally the people talking about killing all the Jews. If the Jews wanted to do ethnic cleansing they would have done much worse.

Or the people that say Israel strikes back x10, not realizing that Hamas has sent 1000 rockets

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:52:55 AM
#116:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Israel usually hands out leaflets shortly before an attack and that's how we get so many civilian videos like this.

I wonder if Hamas is handing out leaflets to warn people to evacuate. Or are they just trying to kill as many people as they can?

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scar the 1
05/13/21 4:52:57 AM
#117:


HHH is the game posted...
I have to think the people saying Israel is doing ethnic cleansing and genocide is anti-semitism talking. Because Hamas are literally the people talking about killing all the Jews. If the Jews wanted to do ethnic cleansing they would have done much worse.

Or the people that say Israel strikes back x10, not realizing that Hamas has sent 1000 rockets
Who has power over whom? Why are you equating criticism of Israel with support of Hamas?

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 4:58:37 AM
#118:


kelemvor posted...
What I don't understand is how reasonable, rational, educated liberals are throwing up pictures and stories from Al-Jazeera to whip up a frenzy without any consideration it's just like Trumpers using Fox News to try to prove some conservative talking point.

It's been so disappointing to me to see becoming AGGRESSIVELY anti-israel and pro-palestine being the cool liberal thing to do. People that I want to respect (as somebody on the left myself, though not as far left as reddit) are coming out so strongly and I just think it's...wrong. I don't think Israel is innocent but there's so much context being glossed over to call Israel evil. Including what the Jewish people have gone through to lead to this point. Why don't they have any land to begin with? What was Israel before that graphic which as was already pointed out, had a lot of context removed?

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SpoiltTrouser
05/13/21 4:59:44 AM
#119:


only natural to defend your home from european colonisers when you're being kept in a zoo and kept on the brink whilst your territory is continually whittled away.

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 5:00:35 AM
#120:


scar the 1 posted...
Who has power over whom? Why are you equating criticism of Israel with support of Hamas?

But that's the thing. If Hamas had power over Israel, you'd see MUCH more 'ethnic cleansing'

And while I agree you should be able to criticize Israel, a lot of people are acting (aggressively) like this is a clear-cut good vs evil issue, with Israel on the 'evil' side

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iPhone_7
05/13/21 5:01:32 AM
#121:


HHH is the game posted...
*waits for iphone_7 to realize that Hamas shot 1000 missiles*
1 Israeli missile for every 1 Hamas missile. Its only fair. Israel needs to stop with its disproportionate use of force as retaliation.

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 5:02:00 AM
#122:


SpoiltTrouser posted...
only natural to defend your home from european colonisers when you're being kept in a zoo and kept on the brink whilst your territory is continually whittled away.

True, but Israel also spent years being murdered and expelled and they have only one tiny corner of the world, and know very well that everybody around them wants them dead. I dont know.....

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 5:02:25 AM
#123:


iPhone_7 posted...
1 Israeli missile for every 1 Hamas missile. Its only fair. Israel needs to stop with its disproportionate use of force as retaliation.

So your'e saying you want Israel to send 1000 missiles...? Im very confused

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scar the 1
05/13/21 5:05:41 AM
#124:


HHH is the game posted...
But that's the thing. If Hamas had power over Israel, you'd see MUCH more 'ethnic cleansing'

And while I agree you should be able to criticize Israel, a lot of people are acting (aggressively) like this is a clear-cut good vs evil issue, with Israel on the 'evil' side
Israel is on the evil side. That doesn't mean that Hamas is good. Israel are doing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and no amount of "but Hamas would also do that is they could" makes it more acceptable.

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iPhone_7
05/13/21 5:27:27 AM
#125:


HHH is the game posted...
So your'e saying you want Israel to send 1000 missiles...? Im very confused
People criticize Israel for their disproportionate retaliation. So maybe Israel should try not overdoing it.

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 5:29:08 AM
#126:


scar the 1 posted...
Israel is on the evil side. That doesn't mean that Hamas is good. Israel are doing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and no amount of "but Hamas would also do that is they could" makes it more acceptable.

Well let's put it this way. Israel is on the evil side. But Hamas is even more evil than Israel. So to condemn israel and not acknowledge that they're the lesser of two evils, is just...strange. this is the most mild ethnic cleansing of all time. It's not acceptable its true, but some people's rhetoric, especially sadly, on the left, is way out of line

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scar the 1
05/13/21 5:38:36 AM
#127:


HHH is the game posted...
Well let's put it this way. Israel is on the evil side. But Hamas is even more evil than Israel. So to condemn israel and not acknowledge that they're the lesser of two evils, is just...strange. this is the most mild ethnic cleansing of all time. It's not acceptable its true, but some people's rhetoric, especially sadly, on the left, is way out of line
https://twitter.com/workerism/status/1392565942400520194

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scar the 1
05/13/21 5:40:13 AM
#128:


"the most mild ethnic cleansing of all time" is a very deranged statement that I think warrants no further discussion here

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#129
Post #129 was unavailable or deleted.
Sphyx
05/13/21 7:32:54 AM
#130:


So now we expect the broken guy being kicked in the ribs to be the better man, even as we defend the kicker's right to keep kicking.

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RedJackson
05/13/21 8:11:01 AM
#131:


HHH is the game posted...
But that's the thing. If Hamas had power over Israel, you'd see MUCH more 'ethnic cleansing'

And while I agree you should be able to criticize Israel, a lot of people are acting (aggressively) like this is a clear-cut good vs evil issue, with Israel on the 'evil' side

Its their stupid ass American mindset trying not to get caught as a centrist on the internet in any way

Like they HAVE to pick a side or their brains just wont function properly at the prospect of understanding issues not our own


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ButteryMales
05/13/21 8:19:18 AM
#132:


Israel and Hamas are evil. That doesn't make it okay for Israel to attack holy sites for excuses to genocide Palestinians.
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ssjevot
05/13/21 8:21:23 AM
#133:


Is anyone in this topic actually defending Hamas or claiming they are good though? I see people saying that is happening, and yes I know you can find people on *insert social media site* saying that, but in this topic I haven't seen that. It's more of a straw man.

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Balrog0
05/13/21 8:26:19 AM
#134:


s0nicfan posted...
. It also defined the borders of iraq, syria, turkey, and transjordan. So if anybody is going to question the legitimacy of those borders they might want to ask themselves why of all those countries created only one of them is illegitimate

That's not a great list of countries that you look at and think, yeah, that's a nation state that's functional and has a real national identity

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pick4six
05/13/21 8:30:02 AM
#135:


This is evil, they are committing genocide against Palenstine. Guess what? America gave them all those bombs...

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 10:33:28 AM
#136:


They are not committing genocide, but if they are, then Hamas is also committing attempted genocide

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 10:34:29 AM
#137:


scar the 1 posted...
"the most mild ethnic cleansing of all time" is a very deranged statement that I think warrants no further discussion here

My point is that to call this an ethnic cleansing is ridiculously extreme

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ScazarMeltex
05/13/21 10:35:35 AM
#138:


HHH is the game posted...
My point is that to call this an ethnic cleansing is ridiculously extreme
Would you call what the US did to the Natives an ethnic cleansing?

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scar the 1
05/13/21 10:39:39 AM
#139:


https://twitter.com/Vinncent/status/1392840372737486851

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Heyitsan_alt
05/13/21 10:58:12 AM
#140:


scar the 1 posted...
https://twitter.com/Vinncent/status/1392840372737486851

It's not even comparable in the age of social media with how much coverage events such as these get. We live in era of instantaneous widespread communication. Comparing a population that was both ignorant and voiceless to the modern Israel/Palestine conflict is insane. Public opinion was so much easier to mold in that era because there were so many fewer voices that carried immensely more authority.
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HHH is the game
05/13/21 1:21:35 PM
#141:


from Wikipedia:

"From 1993 to 2003, 303 Palestinian suicide bombers attacked Israel. More than 80% of all suicide bombings occurred after the year 2000. Between 2000 and 2006, 521 suicide bombing plots were thwarted by the Israeli Defense Forces and 540 Israelis were killed by suicide bombings."

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HHH is the game
05/13/21 1:22:46 PM
#142:


We killed MILLIONS of native americans. Thousands of palestinians have died, but thousands of israelis have died too. The power dynamic is not equal at all but unlike Americans, Israelis ARE using restraint. If they wanted to wipe them out they could, but they don't want to because it's not comparable a situation.

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GeneralSecura92
05/13/21 1:57:36 PM
#143:


Israel has the capacity for genocide but not the desire.

The Palestinians have the desire for genocide but not the capacity.
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SothaSil
05/13/21 1:59:22 PM
#144:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Israel has the capacity for genocide but not the desire.

The Palestinians have the desire for genocide but not the capacity.
Whose alt

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#145
Post #145 was unavailable or deleted.
darklink1017
05/13/21 2:00:12 PM
#146:


remember how the burmese treated the rohingya? same shit here.


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HHH is the game
05/13/21 5:51:58 PM
#147:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Israel has the capacity for genocide but not the desire.

The Palestinians have the desire for genocide but not the capacity.

Exactly. (Or Hamas at least, though they're the government in Gaza. Not the Palestinian people in general.)

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gmanthebest
05/14/21 11:25:33 AM
#148:


GeneralSecura92 posted...
Israel has the capacity for genocide but not the desire.

The Palestinians have the desire for genocide but not the capacity.
Hamas, but yeah, pretty much.

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Antifar
05/14/21 11:27:12 AM
#149:


https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1393047412663521280
Since when are soldiers counted among civilians?

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Smashingpmkns
05/14/21 11:54:45 AM
#150:


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