Current Events > Have you guys considered that MAYBE conservatives don't see the real reasons why

(+) Yeah! (+)

You guys are right and that they have their own ideas that people on the left are unaware of? Like maybe they aren't all in bad faith, so to speak, just ignorant.

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I think there are a few studies that support this.

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I just mean, maybe they aren't the villains they are made out to be? I'm sure a lot of the talking point people like on Fox know what they are doing, but does the average conservative really understand? Maybe they shouldn't be depersonalized.

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Are you having a little moment because your mother is one of the villains?

No. I've kind of already been thinking on this. It's just that what most conservatives are fed is very different than what is talked about here, and that maybe the reason I see it your guys' way is because I AM here on this board so I'm exposed to arguments and logic that most people wouldn't be.

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Theyre still responsible for the shitty things that they believe, Alan. It doesnt matter if they think that theyre right, that doesnt excuse anything.

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Yeah but I mean like, the only reason I see things differently than them is because I hung out here. I could very easily have been different if I hadn't. And I have very much noticed that the reasonings for why liberals are right are explained in full here, but you wouldn't get that from watching Fox News.

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This is the problem with the internet, really. Social media specifically. It's fucking easy to paint someone as a comic book 2d villain when the only part of their personality that you know is the time they said something questionable on twitter.

My hometown is very small, and the people there are unquestionably kinder (where it actually matters) than the woke people I tend to meet in the city. But they are also ignorant as fuck.

I mean you tell me. Person A says all the right shit on twitter but wouldn't help you so much as move a couch. Person B is pretty ignorant because they've lived in a small town their whole life, but would give you a bed to sleep in no questions asked. That's largely been my experience with small town conservatives.

And I say this as a scot who fucking hates tories

And yes, as flameturtle points out, they're still responsible for the shit they think - but I also don't believe it's an irredeemable problem. A person is not simply good or bad.


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pinky0926 posted...

but I also don't believe it's an irredeemable problem

yeah that's what I mean. People say conservatives are irredeemable evil people here, but they haven't gotten the benefit of what gets explained here? you know? Not saying every conservative would care, just saying maybe some of them don't know any better.

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Fuck I'm gonna catch hell for this when people start to wake up aren't I.

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nfearurspecimn posted...

yeah that's what I mean. People say conservatives are irredeemable evil people here, but they haven't gotten the benefit of what gets explained here? you know? Not saying every conservative would care, just saying maybe some of them don't know any better.

Not to play devil's advocate on myself or anything, but there is also a valid point (I think) in the "It's not my job to educate you" line of thinking. Like sure, a country boy's ignorance might just be ignorance, but it's also not up to the everyone else to tolerate and fix it.

I just have a real fucking distaste for twitter activism these days

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I dunno, maybe they're just ignorant of that stuff but people are pretty multi-dimensional, all-catching political labels dont tend to do justice to myriad of things that goes into defining a person.

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pinky0926 posted...

but it's also not up to the everyone else to tolerate and fix it.

maybe not, but if you don't try to explain, you've lost the right to paint them with the broad brush of being truly evil, not just taken in by the Fox News Crew's Agenday

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The people that assume all conservatives are bad are ridiculous. Everyone has the capacity to be a bad person . Liberals too. It's the ones who don't have the capacity to realize this.

LIberals may be able to see a broader view but I truly wonder sometimes with the stuff companies like google are doing. They are all capitalistic pigs in some form trying to control peoples minds and keep the united states a world power and are screwing people over in the process.

People really need to be careful as far as what they think genuinally good is. Their egos sometimes.

Nothings stopping them from turning off fox.

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FlameTurtle posted...

Nothings stopping them from turning off fox.

that's the problem. maybe Fox is using propaganda and fear to keep them hooked. For Example. The daily show called The Five has a little bar at the bottom that periodically says "You can trust The Five". Not making this up. And to use my mom as an example, she's really naive and suggestible. I am too. The difference is what I've been exposed to and the benefit of seeing people explain things here.

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LIberals will chew people up and spit them out just the same and can be just as racist, xenophobic and everything else with their stereotypes and propaganda. Everyone is selling something for the most part.

I agree. Anyone can be shitty. It's the ones who don't realize it. Whatever you want to classify people as.

nfearurspecimn posted...

that's the problem. maybe Fox is using propaganda and fear to keep them hooked. For Example. The daily show called The Five has a little bar at the bottom that periodically says "You can trust The Five". Not making this up. And to use my mom as an example, she's really naive and suggestible. I am too. The difference is what I've been exposed to and the benefit of seeing people explain things here.

The other thing that I've noticed is that liberals have a tendency to not realise their own biases as well. Ok, they're better at realising them, but also seem to put too much stock in left wing media outlets.

The Guardian's fact checking is barely better than Fox's, but that doesn't stop my lefty friends from putting complete stock in it every time. So how is that any better? Because the ideas are more gentle? I dunno, bullshit is bullshit, surely.

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nah.. it comforts me to realize they're pretty much what the oracle describes here:
https://youtu.be/Q-VPKuKvOvc

humans integrated with machine AI that lack the cognitive ability to reason(let alone glimpse) beyond what they don't understand.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Za8BtLgKv8

Really watch that. It's funny. Conan is pretty liberal I'm guessing. He's from massachusetts and one of the smarter talk show guys. The girl he is with probably wrote the sketch. I was talking about common core too in another thread. It's like mental gymnastics. And don't kid yourselves. Bill Gates is a capitalistic pig. People come up with these things and it's what sells. But if you really watch that Kevin Hart and Ice Cube are having fun playing off their own stereotypes and so is she. It's like she came up with this idea in her head. It's xenophobic, racist and everything else. But kind of funny. It's like Little House on the Prairie in reverse. And this country really will chew people up and spit them out. The fact I can even discern that from watching that a few times. They want people creating these things. But sometimes too much is too much. The final comment where Kevin Hart is like if anyone says anything bad about you throw a battery at them is pretty funny.

What that battery actually is is the thing. The stuff that is out there in the media in general. Liberal, conservative whatever. What google is doing. What trump is doing. They could all tone it down a bit.

kg88222 posted...

Bill Gates is a capitalistic pig

What hard hitting analysis

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Too many people think like this but end up doing something else and all should probably be in jail by now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLcfQKU_co

It's unfortunate people can't appreciate peoples differences either. And some people are way ahead of themselves in that regard.

I think people do comprehend it is the thing they are just that beligerant because of it. Trump also really was the only guy they could find. And most real marines don't act that way Especially as they get older. Neither do people who can actually respect people who served this country.

nfearurspecimn posted...

maybe not, but if you don't try to explain, you've lost the right to paint them with the broad brush of being truly evil, not just taken in by the Fox News Crew's Agenday

Explaining wrked on exsctly 1 of them in my experience
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shockthemonkey posted...

Yeah but LIBERALS *insane rant*

nice ableism dude

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Right wing ideology is designed to divide the working class at the benefit of the ruling class and create strict impenetrable social hierarchies based on race/ethnicity and income.

If you actually believe in right wing ideologies you are unredemable human scum with no inbetween

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Machete posted...

Explaining wrked on exsctly 1 of them in my experience

worked on me :3

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ZombiePelican posted...

Right wing ideology is designed to divide the working class at the benefit of the ruling class and create strict impenetrable social hierarchies based on race/ethnicity and income.

If you actually believe in right wing ideologies you are unredemable human scum with no inbetween

This seriously is the one of the dumbest things I have ever read, but I won't give you that much credit. Everyone believes in right wing idealogies in some regard. And it doesn't mean it's bad either. What's unforunate are the people who take the worst parts of both sides. And define people this way.

That's the side thing too, is right wing ideoligies are being attached to Trump and the leadership in this country in general is piss poor. And so are a lot of people.

People need to stop making excuses for conservatives and need to stop "same thing both sides!"-ing too.

ZombiePelican posted...

Right wing ideology is designed to divide the working class at the benefit of the ruling class and create strict impenetrable social hierarchies based on race/ethnicity and income.

If you actually believe in right wing ideologies you are unredemable human scum with no inbetween

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Most people like what was just said wouldn't know a middle finger that was really meant that way and truthfully either. You watch too much tv and donald trump and other idiots and are a racist dangerous person.

shockthemonkey posted...

Conservative shittiness gets defended as they dont know better while they actively yell against any sort of education despite having the ability to educate themselves at the tip of their fingers. Stop making excuses for shitty people being deliberately shitty.

shockthemonkey posted...

Yeah but LIBERALS *insane rant*

It is not shocking at all that you'd have an extremely black and white viewpoint on something like this. Dude, you need to go out and interact with people for once in your life. You come off as the textbook screaming at people on the internet liberal. You have a very holier than thou tone about yourself. You'd be better served having empathy for those you disagree with.

Anyways, people from small towns live in completely different worlds. It is crazy that if politics never ever come up in conversation that you'd likely think a lot of small town people are way better. You can even tell them your political positions and they may be upset by them, but they'd be more willing to put them aside and change the subject to something more pleasant.

There is also no denying that we are influenced by our environment. If I didn't spend my entire life living in a major metro area and attending very large ultra liberal universities then I may not be the same person at all. I mean, I grew up going to Catholic school through ninth grade, but still held onto many right wing beliefs until I went to college right out of high school.

It's really weird that when it comes to issues about being properly informed, many liberals have a bootstraps type mentality. It's way easier to believe one thing when you spend all of your own life in small towns and rarely have your views challenged. Like if everyone you know goes to church and is pro life then how could you see the pro choice position as reasonable?

Also, a lot of small town people have very scary opinions of the big city and the danger that is out there. Many of them will avoid the city and never challenge those viewpoints. If you only spend time with other white people and you associate minorities with the big scary city and you never interact with minorities well then it is easy to see how problematic belief systems on race can develop. Same goes for covid precautions. If no one in your town wears a mask then you are much less likely to.

We are way more if products of our environments than your average conservative would like you to believe. Unless you are an ultra virtuous liberal then liberals are amazing people, because only they could have the open mindedness to understand what the correct opinions to have are.


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The problem with the whole battle of political ideologies in America is that neither side actually listens to the other or actually tries to talk, it always devolves in to some form of senseless screaming and belittling each other. This has gotten extremely bad since the rise of things like Reddit where you can just echo your own beliefs and shut out everything else.

If you want to actually explain your beliefs or discuss them flexibility is incredibly important, you have to be able to see yourself as "wrong" because that's usually where the other side is coming from, and explain from there. Just digging in to your own views fortifies the other side too.

That's like saying persecute every person who was ever raised catholic or muslim or aetheist or immigrated to this country or anything else. Everyone has right wing ideooigies in some regard. It's more what you do with it. If you say you don't you are lying. Yes the point is to be liberal and democratic. But unfortunately what we've ended up with in the media at least is a lot of right wing idiots.

Good teachers are liberal. Even if they have right wing idealogies. They liberate people. Unfortunately there are lots of bad teachers out there.

TommyG663513 posted...

It's really weird that when it comes to issues about being properly informed, many liberals have a bootstraps type mentality. It's way easier to believe one thing when you spend all of your own life in small towns and rarely have your views challenged. Like if everyone you know goes to church and is pro life then how could you see the pro choice position as reasonable?

I wish I could find the meme that inspired the convo I read on reddit, but it was a starterpack about tinder liberal art students (my weakness, btw). But the funny part was someone discussing how every one of these people think they're working class because they wear doc martens and preach marxism but in reality they despise the working class and would freeze up if the plumber tried to talk to them.

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I agree R-Jackal. The whole right wing divides started off well but then it devolved into all people with right wing ideologies are the scum of the earth. It was ike yay. noooo... It went from making sense to complete disapointment.

ZombiePelican posted...

Right wing ideology is designed to divide the working class at the benefit of the ruling class and create strict impenetrable social hierarchies based on race/ethnicity and income.

If you actually believe in right wing ideologies you are unredemable human scum with no inbetween

Ah yes, the poverty pimps and race hustlers who came up with such wonderful things as uncle toms, white privilege or cultural appropriation gatekeeping, blames others entirely for racial division. Very ironic stuff.

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Expected Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

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If you take the same militant liberal mindset towards small town conservatives and apply it to poor people, drug addicts, and criminals then it's basically just right wing ideology. Total horse shoe theory.

In a lot of ways, we are all just victims of the system and trying to find our own ways out at the end. I can tell you that when I possessed a lot of right wing viewpoints when I was in high school and early college that the only people who helped convince me otherwise were people who were patient with me and just made good points instead of attacking me as a person.

Based on my experiences, I feel a need to kind of pay that attitude forward. Just because someone has problematic belief systems now doesn't mean they will in 5 or 10 year from now.

Basically, just scream at your racist uncle at Thanksgiving a little less each year instead of doubling down on it. With some people, just aim for baby steps. You can't always reach everybody.

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my computer science professor was a christian, military veteran who went to harvard and mit and was one of the nciest guys around. worked in soup kitchens and would support anyone through it and was really good at explaining things in simple ways too. you assume all people are like that. Some people who have right wing backgrounds are extremely humble hard working people and kind.

Not every person who has those ideologies is donald trump and a criminal. He just died too. He spent his life in service to other people.

CalypsoDoom posted...

again, going soft on bigotry is how you end up with people like Trump as president. no one needs to meet racists in the middle or play devils advocate for their beliefs.

I don't think that's why Trump ended up as president, although I agree with the second point ("no one needs to", at least).

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pinky0926 posted...

I wish I could find the meme that inspired the convo I read on reddit, but it was a starterpack about tinder liberal art students (my weakness, btw). But the funny part was someone discussing how every one of these people think they're working class because they wear doc martens and preach marxism but in reality they despise the working class and would freeze up if the plumber tried to talk to them.

Yeah that's a big problem with a lot of liberals is that they can be fake AF. The term virtue signaling accurately describes your example with the Doc Martens.

Though the funny thing is that even as fake as some liberals can be about supporting the working class that may sometimes be more pro working class than many or most of the actual working class. Simply because right wing ideologies are so damn opposed to the working class. If right wing ideologies even mildly supported the working class then this wouldn't be true at all.

As someone who worked in warehouses for a decade in a large city, there's tons of right wing people working there. Again, even though this was in a very large city. I think if a lot of liberal people met and interacted with the working class on the regular and became familiar with their mindsets then I really doubt they'd be so strongly in favor of the working class. They'd probably feel a lot more resentment towards them.

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People are so about money nowt. There were people then who could have been donald trump but lived very humble simple lives in service to people who are educated and more liberal, but have right wing ideologies. The world needs more people like that. A lot of those people are dying off.

If you aren't willing to be educated or willing to see it from a different pov then you wrong

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CalypsoDoom posted...

again, going soft on bigotry is how you end up with people like Trump as president. no one needs to meet racists in the middle or play devils advocate for their beliefs.

No one is talking about meeting racists in the middle

The point is that if you have any interest in challenging their viewpoint then you need to make a real strong attempt at understanding their mindset. If you never get to that point, because you're too busy shouting at them and calling them a bigot then you will do zero good in changing their mindset. You'd be much better off never interacting with them.

Like of course a racist viewpoint is based in some sort of fallacy and probably even hate. Of course many racist people will likely still be racist even after you talk to them. The point is to plant a seed of doubt and make them just think about it a little more.

When you realize that small town white people like damn near never interact with minorities and that their opinions of minorities are passed down to them by family members that they love and trust then you can begin to understand how racism can develop in a person and how to challenge it.

There is no denying that there is a huge environmental pressure to think one way or the other whether you are a small time farmer or a student at a large university.

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pinky0926 posted...

I mean you tell me. Person A says all the right s*** on twitter but wouldn't help you so much as move a couch. Person B is pretty ignorant because they've lived in a small town their whole life, but would give you a bed to sleep in no questions asked. That's largely been my experience with small town conservatives.

Pretty much. When all is said and done your political beliefs is a really small part of who you are. If it is, you're probably obnoxious af irl.

Most conservatives I met are decent people. They vote red because of religion and believing in the free market. They treat me well so I have no beef with them.


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I haven't read all the responses but i'm replying to TC's basic question....

I used to think the same thing but as time is going on i'm agreeing with it less and less. Even if it's true the information is out there for people to look up and they don't. When confronted with something that contradicts their view it's called a "hoax." It isn't ignorance in that they just don't know, it's ignorance in that they don't WANT to know.

I have gone round and round and round with my conservative friends. I would point out the tiny hypocrisies or send them news articles that say the opposite of what they were told and they ignore it. For a few months after Biden was elected especially I tried to do this but they doubled down even more and added the "stolen election" bullshit to it now.

Am I talking about every Republican? No. But there is a LARGE portion of their base that's like this. They will NEVER be convinced or change.

And this is all coming from someone who is still registered Republican who didn't vote for Trump.

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