Current Events > Now that Snyder's Cut is released, let me just ask those who hated JL.....why??

(+) Yeah! (+)

What made the original movie bad in the first place?

The only complaint I ever heard was that it was rushed. Which is yknow...exactly what Snyder's cut fixes?

A good explanation of why Snyder cut is better than OG JL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eybTcqo8QSc

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Ms
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Where did all the haters and MCU fanboys and girls go to?

oh no.

It doesn't understand the characters, rushes a team together without developing them, continues to misuse Superman, smaller details like Flash's running. None of it's problems can be addressed without fixing Man of Steel and BvS tho.

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Wutobliteration posted...

What made the original movie bad in the first place?

The only complaint I ever heard was that it was rushed. Which is yknow...exactly what Snyder's cut fixes?

Are you asking why people didn't like something before its problems were fixed?

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tote_all posted...

It has no soul, characters are bland and boring, it wants to be MCU-funny (which isn't THAT funny to begin with) but fails hard every time.

It's not that it has some unforgivable flaw that makes it a bad movie... it's just, what makes it a good movie?

saying 'bland and boring' is about as right as me calling literally any movie I want 'bland and boring'. You just sound subjective as shit.

Give more details on the exact criticism with yknow...examples? and then I'd understand

CM_Ponch posted...

It doesn't understand the characters, rushes a team together without developing them, continues to misuse Superman, smaller details like Flash's running. None of it's problems can be addressed without fixing Man of Steel and BvS tho.

But meanwhile Civil War can cram completely new characters including Black Panther and Spider-man with ZERO BACKGROUND intro to them whatsoever and completely disregard big villians like Zemo and Crossbones and the super-soldiers just so we can watch Iron Man and Captain America duke it out and yet the movie is totally OK for you.

Sure.

Wutobliteration posted...

But meanwhile Civil War can cram completely new characters including Black Panther and Spider-man with ZERO BACKGROUND intro to them whatsoever and completely disregard a big villian like Zemo or the super-soldiers just so we can watch Iron Man and Captain America duke it out and yet the movie is totally OK for you.

Sure.

I don't care about the MCU tho

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Avengers was built off the backs of four or five films of characterization. That's 450 minutes of material before The Avengers' opening scene. Avengers didn't spend a significant amount of time introducing its characters because people already knew them, and if someone didn't, the writing was plenty tight enough to allow for them to piece things together as the action happened.

Contrast Justice League. Its prior source material includes Man of Steel, an awkward Batman vs Superman movie that fails to introduce Batman beyond "it's Batman, but he shoots guns and is angrier", and Wonder Woman. Realize that Superman is dead during Justice League and BvS doesn't meaningfully contribute to Bruce Wayne's characterization that much. That leaves us with Wonder Woman, which... takes place all the way back in WWI. So there really is a VERY barebones preparation for this teamup movie. They need to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg in one movie, none of whom are as familiar to audiences as the characters who ACTUALLY got films. In a genre where the typical introduction time for a major team member is an entire film. On top of that they have to build their team dynamics, interpersonal conflicts, and have a villain that's doing villainous shit and needs to be stopped.

I realize this topic is bait but whether or not Snyder's cut "fixes" JL by stuffing in all the shots the editor threw out is irrelevant to how people experienced the theatrical movie as a product.

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Whenever people call JL or even BvS as 'rushed' because the individual characters didnt get their own solo movie first, oh no... I point back to Civil War, literally the defintion of a rushed movie. The movie was indeed rushed since the Russo brothers had to quickly turn it from what was meant to be a solo Captain America sequel to Avengers 2.5

Seriously, hypocrites yall are

It reeked of filmmaking by committee and a lot of the stuff with it just is plainly obviously an attempt to emulate the MCU, which contrasts really badly with the previous films in the franchise.

The film was short, had some crappy CGI, and made very little sense.


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Doe posted...

Avengers was built off the backs of four or five films of characterization. That's 450 minutes of material before The Avengers' opening scene. Avengers didn't spend a significant amount of time introducing its characters because people already knew them, and if someone didn't, the writing was plenty tight enough to allow for them to piece things together as the action happened.

Nah Avengers was ass too. Phase 1 had one okay movie in Iron Man. Captain America was somewhat developed, Thor was ass, no one knew about Norton's Hulk movie, and the other Avengers were nobodies

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Wutobliteration posted...

Whenever people call JL or even BvS as 'rushed' because the individual characters didnt get their own solo movie first, oh no... I point back to Civil War, literally the defintion of a rushed movie. The movie was indeed rushed since the Russo brothers had to quickly turn it from what was meant to be a solo Captain America sequel to Avengers 2.5

Seriously, hypocrites yall are

Civil War is an easily digestible movie while Batman vs Superman has 3 hours of runtime and is still inscrutable. The main characters of CW are Captain America and Iron Man, who the audience already know intimately. Neither Black Panther or Spiderman are the central focus of Civil War, nor do they feel like they absorb excessive amounts of screentime. The film works out because it's well-written.

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Doe posted...

Avengers was built off the backs of four or five films of characterization. That's 450 minutes of material before The Avengers' opening scene. Avengers didn't spend a significant amount of time introducing its characters because people already knew them, and if someone didn't, the writing was plenty tight enough to allow for them to piece things together as the action happened.

Contrast Justice League. Its prior source material includes Man of Steel, an awkward Batman vs Superman movie that fails to introduce Batman beyond "it's Batman, but he shoots guns and is angrier", and Wonder Woman. Realize that Superman is dead during Justice League and BvS doesn't meaningfully contribute to Bruce Wayne's characterization that much. That leaves us with Wonder Woman, which... takes place all the way back in WWI. So there really is a VERY barebones preparation for this teamup movie. They need to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg in one movie, none of whom are as familiar to audiences as the characters who ACTUALLY got films. In a genre where the typical introduction time for a major team member is an entire film. On top of that they have to build their team dynamics, interpersonal conflicts, and have a villain that's doing villainous shit and needs to be stopped.

I realize this topic is bait but whether or not Snyder's cut "fixes" JL by stuffing in all the shots the editor threw out is irrelevant to how people experienced the theatrical movie as a product.

And so what??? We never saw Black Widow having a solo flick, nor Hawkeye. We just see them do a bunch of fancy action scenes, help out with Ironman or another main superhero and suddenly they're relevant and considered substantial?? We never even got much of a single backstory on these two. Hawkeye was especially tossed aside and then suddenly appears as Ronin in Endgame with literally no context given whatsoever.

Meanwhile Justice League built off superheros like Cyborg and Aquaman far more substantially in just one movie than Marvel ever bothered to for their heroes.

So tell me again what's this unnnecessary 'need' to build a solo movie for every damn superhero? Also assumes everyone already watched the previous movies, which guess what, THEY DON'T.
Go look at the movie revenues. Most people didnt even watch Captain America or Thor. The whole Avengers was mostly built on people who only watched the Iron Man movies and just went into Avengers not knowing the rest of the cast.

Wutobliteration posted...

But meanwhile Civil War can cram completely new characters including Black Panther and Spider-man with ZERO BACKGROUND intro to them whatsoever and completely disregard big villians like Zemo and Crossbones and the super-soldiers just so we can watch Iron Man and Captain America duke it out and yet the movie is totally OK for you.

Sure.

Idk what to tell you, man. It worked with the MCU and not so much with the DCEU.

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Wutobliteration posted...

Where did all the haters

The world still exists so everywhere. We just don't care. Enjoy your shit movie that is now even longer

I'm also not really a fan of marvel either so yeah

tote_all posted...

Yeah, they definitely needed to show uncle Ben getting shot for a third time in 20 years.

I'm starting to get why you seem to lost on this.

And you need watch another Batman solo movie for Ben Affleck before you watch BvS? You need to watch Batman get his parents killed, fight the Joker again or something?

Cuz it was boring

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Wutobliteration posted...

But meanwhile Civil War can cram completely new characters including Black Panther and Spider-man with ZERO BACKGROUND intro to them whatsoever and completely disregard big villians like Zemo and Crossbones and the super-soldiers just so we can watch Iron Man and Captain America duke it out and yet the movie is totally OK for you.

Sure.

Civil War sucked and so did every subsequent marvel film.

Every MCU entry sucks tbh

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Wutobliteration posted...

And so what??? We never saw Black Widow having a solo flick, nor Hawkeye. We just see them do a bunch of fancy action scenes, help out with Ironman or another main superhero and suddenly they're relevant and considered substantial?? We never even got much of a single backstory on these two. Hawkeye was especially tossed aside and then suddenly appears as Ronin in Endgame with literally no context given whatsoever.

I'm gonna be honest with you. I literally forgot Hawkeye is in the first Avengers movie. Avengers is still a much better film.

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CM_Ponch posted...

Nah Avengers was ass too. Phase 1 had one okay movie in Iron Man. Captain America was somewhat developed, Thor was ass, no one knew about Norton's Hulk movie, and the other Avengers were nobodies

Thank you.

Avengers 1 was indeed ass s***. I never liked Joss Whedon films but critics love it so audiences were made to love that crap too.

Even Captain America's utterly horrid cosplay-looking suit. Wonder why no one was talking about that

Wutobliteration posted...

And you need watch another Batman solo movie for Ben Affleck before you watch BvS? You need to watch Batman get his parents killed, fight the Joker again or something?

Yeah it would actually be nice for this Batman since he's a lost a Robin and is at the end of his career. We know nothing about this Bruce but he's already been Batman for a long time vs a rookie Superman.

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Doom_Art posted...

It reeked of filmmaking by committee and a lot of the stuff with it just is plainly obviously an attempt to emulate the MCU, which contrasts really badly with the previous films in the franchise.

The film was short, had some crappy CGI, and made very little sense.

really? How so?

WB was taking the opposite route of everything Marvel did. Intro'ing superheroes before their solo films, taking a dark and serious tone etc.

CM_Ponch posted...

Yeah it would actually be nice for this Batman since he's a lost a Robin and is at the end of his career. We know nothing about this Bruce but he's already been Batman for a long time vs a rookie Superman.

I admit the Batman in BvS wasn't as familiar to movie-goers but he's literally, based, straight off Frank Miller's Batman. Snyder made the movie for comic fans, not mainstream audiences who only know Batman from the Nolan films

then why did comic fans hate it

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Wutobliteration posted...

really? How so?

WB was taking the opposite route of everything Marvel did. Intro'ing superheroes before their solo films, taking a dark and serious tone etc.

Can you define what aspect of Justice League was particularly more dark and serious than Avengers? The Justice League I remember was put together by the same director who made Avengers. He was asked by Warner Bros to color correct the film to make it warmer and vibrant. He included comedic reshoots to brighten the tone with stuff like Wonder Woman lassoing Aqua Man to talk about how terrified he is. That's what Doom_Art is talking about in terms of filmmaking by committee (besides the reality that Synder's project itself only exists because of WB snapping their fingers in anticipation of digging into "cinematic universe" money before the well dries).

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Doe posted...

Civil War is an easily digestible movie while Batman vs Superman has 3 hours of runtime and is still inscrutable. The main characters of CW are Captain America and Iron Man, who the audience already know intimately. Neither Black Panther or Spiderman are the central focus of Civil War, nor do they feel like they absorb excessive amounts of screentime. The film works out because it's well-written.

I don't know which part you thought a movie can be well-written when it's just tossing in new characters left and right simply for fanfare?

There was practically no need to throw in Black Panther nor Spider-man into the movie. Even Iron Man.

Strip the Civil War story to its barebones and you could easily see how
Civil War was clearly and very clearly MEANT to be a solo Captain America movie.

The story revolved around Capt. America chasing after Bucky and eventually leading them to reunite and confront Zemo at his hideout and fight his super soldiers.
Instead what we got are the super soldiers dead for no goddamn good reason and Iron Man replacing Zemo as the villian and a completely unnecessary bunch of scenes where Iron Man and team tries to stop Captain America from going to Zemo.

This is the kind of letoff I see happen for movies that receive critics positive reception. All flaws are ignored and everyone suddenly thinks the movie is pitch-perfect. The blind sheep effect is damn real in the movie market.

Also... go watch the airport scene. Ironman's neck CGI is absolutely horrid my god.

Doe posted...

Can you define what aspect of Justice League was particularly more dark and serious than Avengers? The Justice League I remember was put together by the same director who made Avengers. He was asked by Warner Bros to color correct the film to make it warmer and vibrant. He included comedic reshoots to brighten the tone with stuff like Wonder Woman lassoing Aqua Man to talk about how terrified he is. That's what Doom_Art is talking about in terms of filmmaking by committee (besides the reality that Synder's project itself only exists because of WB snapping their fingers in anticipation of digging into "cinematic universe" money before the well dries).

yes I meant JL visioned by Snyder, as seen in his cut. The Snyder's cut is also actually the canon movie to the DC-universe, not Whedon's version, as confirmed by the directors of Aquaman and WW themselves. Since they worked only with Snyder, and never with Whedon

Wutobliteration posted...

Even Iron Man.

Strip the Civil War story to its barebones and you could easily see how it was clearly and very clearly MEANT to be a solo Captain America movie. The story revolved around Capt. America chasing after Bucky and eventually leading them to reunite and confront Zemo at his hideout and fight his super soldiers.

https://i.imgur.com/w7KfDVI.gif

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Doe posted...

https://i.imgur.com/w7KfDVI.gif

if you didn't realise till now, Civil War was never meant to be a movie. It was original just intended as Captain America 3 and the whole Civil War crap was only done to compete with BvS at that time. Go read the development cycle of the movie. The Russos were made by Marvel to rush and quickly change their storyline at the last minute

Wutobliteration posted...

admit the Batman in BvS wasn't as familiar to movie-goers but he's literally, based, straight off Frank Miller's Batman. Snyder made the movie for comic fans, not mainstream audiences who only know Batman from the Nolan films

No he's not TDKR Batman was done with his career and stepped back in after Gotham showed it needed him. TDKR Superman had sold out to the ultimate authority and became a weapon for the US. The conflict between the two is driven by Bruce hating what Clark had become. BvS Batman is an angry killer.

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lmao at this whole topic
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Bruh its been 3 years. Let it go

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Wutobliteration posted...

I meant JL visioned by Snyder, as seen in his cut.

The movie comes out today so unless you watched it at midnight and barely got any sleep, I guess you must've gotten up bright and early at 8 AM, sat through the 4 hours, stretched and got back at 2pm to make this topic? Nobody here's gonna know what's in Snyder's cut yet. Everybody knows 'Justice League' as that film Joss Whedon tried to salvage.

In terms of your understanding of Civil War... I really don't know where to begin. For one thing,

Wutobliteration posted...

The story revolved around Capt. America chasing after Bucky and eventually leading them to reunite and confront Zemo at his hideout and fight his super soldiers.

This isn't a script. This isn't a movie. This is the synopsis of a mediocre videogame that didn't pay for writers. You're describing a scenario. A story is a change in character. Why is going after Zemo with Bucky a conflict? Because the new superhero oversight laws, that Iron Man supports, prevents them from acting without oversight.

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pegusus123456 posted...

lmao at this whole topic

pretty much.

TC really melting down about it all lol.

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I dislike it because the internet said it was bad

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JL rushed to create a team up movie without the individual characters having solo movies, or good solo movies first.

MCU started with a very solid base and just kept building onto it to amazing success.

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tote_all posted...

That would've been a damn awful movie.

This make more and more sense.

nah. I'd rather watch how Captain America can fight that many super soldiers at once.

And I'm pretty sure there was more to it. There's tons of Captain America villians out there they could have used. But now we'll never see them appear all because of this Civil War crap and Endgame

Zeeak4444 posted...

pretty much.

TC really melting down about it all lol.

I just want to see how people defend the crap that is Civil War while still trying to only diss JL

Why do they do that? I think this comment sums it up nicely.
Turbam posted...

I dislike it because the internet said it was bad

People don't know what the hell they're even hating for

Wutobliteration posted...

nah. I'd rather watch how Captain America can fight that many super soldiers at once.

I"d like to claim this sums up the acuity of the diehard DCEU fans. Completely oblivious to character drama and interpersonal conflict. Probably rate Transformers films as grade A entertainment. But that doesn't explain how Marvel films still have better action than the DCEU anyway.

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