Current Events > Why didn't the Europeans colonize Japan

(+) Yeah! (+)

Widely accepted subtle white supremacist answer: Well Japan was very poor candidate for colonization because it was too far away,, and rather poor on natural resources to be worth the effort for an European power to colonize.

The real not racist answer: They ******ing couldn't otherwise they would have colonized it. It's time to put subtle white supremacy to rest folks.

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other answer: why go through all the hassle of colonizing when you can just go for some good old domination via gunships?

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ROBANN_88 posted...

other answer: why go through all the hassle of colonizing when you can just go for some good old domination via gunships?

Because they couldn't colonize in the first place lol

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Yeah the "its was too far" loses steam once you realize the Phillipines isn't that far from Japan. The answer is that western powers couldn't, it had a pretty respectful military that after decades of trading with the Dutch and Portuguese was about on par with European powers.

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Because anime wouldnt exist

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Samurai

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Because katanas can cut bullets in the air

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Because Japan would have fucked them up.

They still got occupied by America, but it took 2 nukes to do it.

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Centuries old Japanese people were skilled fighters and swordsmen. Europe had no chance.

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Didnt the Americans show up with two battleships and force them to trade in the 19th century?

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By the time England got to Japan their resources were stretched so thin they couldn't take over something as well defended as Japan and couldn't really maintain control over the shit they already had (America)

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The_Creep_2020 posted...

Didnt the Americans show up with two battleships and force them to trade in the 19th century?

Long period of isolation during that time set Japan a little bit behind the rest of the world so while "force" is kind of accurate they were also driven by a need in order to remain competitive as a country.

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MrMallard posted...

Because Japan would have fucked them up.

They still got occupied by America, but it took 2 nukes to do it.

An actual American invasion of Japan would've been devastating no telling what the outcome would've been

Tyranthraxus posted...

By the time England got to Japan their resources were stretched so thin they couldn't take over something as well defended as Japan and couldn't really maintain control over the shit they already had (America)

India? Africa? Asia?

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

It's time to put subtle white supremacy to rest folks.

this makes no fucking sense in this context

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Couldn't it be both? I imagine at the time even if European armies were superior it would have been logistically a nightmare to send and supply forces to colonize them unless the superiority was massive.

JBaLLEN66 posted...

India?

That trainwreck of a colonization attempt that went so bad they could only keep control by splitting it up into two countries? What about?

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E32005 posted...

this makes no fucking sense in this context

what do you mean? it's time to stop thinking Europeans were just some invincible force and the rest of the world was backwards af and at the mercy of the white man

ArchNemo posted...

Couldn't it be both? I imagine at the time even if European armies were superior it would have been logistically a nightmare to send and supply forces to colonize them unless the superiority was massive.

Agreed, but they also colonized other places that were considered logistical nightmares

Tyranthraxus posted...

That trainwreck of a colonization attempt that went so bad they could only keep control by splitting it up into two countries? What about?

They still colonized it lol

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

it's time to stop thinking Europeans were just some invincible force and the rest of the world was backwards af and at the mercy of the white man

tell that to 400 years of african bondage

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E32005 posted...

tell that to 400 years of african bondage

a lot of Africa resisted European colonization until they literal machine guns and modern weaponry to combat them

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

a lot of Africa resisted European colonization until they literal machine guns and modern weaponry to combat them

that doesnt mean shit to the millions enslaved and murdered

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Japan is also an island which makes it very difficult to invade, so it had that going for it as well over other places that were invaded.

I'm not saying Japan was helpless, but not even factoring in things like geography is a bit disingenuous.

E32005 posted...

that doesnt mean shit to the millions enslaved and murdered

It took both Europeans and African kingdoms to collaborate with that

ArchNemo posted...

Japan is also an island which makes it very difficult to invade, so it had that going for it as well over other places that were invaded.

I'm not saying Japan was helpless, but not even factoring in things like geography is a bit disingenuous.

Philippines, Australia, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Caribbean

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My guess it was largely a risk/reward thing

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

It took both Europeans and African kingdoms to collaborate with that

Philippines, Australia, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Caribbean

Weren't some of those places only inhabited basically by tribes at the time though?

What I'm saying is, even if Japanese military was inferior, it wasn't inferior enough that the geographical factors wouldn't make an attempt at colonization not worthwhile.

JBaLLEN66 posted...

It took both Europeans and African kingdoms to collaborate with that

so you think that makes it ok. got it.

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I suspect another issue is it wouldn't have been as simple as European nation go in and conquer. A lot of European nations probably had a vested interest that their competitors not take the country too, so it would probably turn into a European nation (with some support of their allies) vs Japan (backed by other European nations). Would be interesting to see read some history on this, much like how you have people in US government who really want to invade Iran I am sure some high ranking political officials and military leaders in Europe did vie to invade Japan.

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They would have had better looking women if they colonized Japan

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Honest answer: Geography wouldnt allow it. It's an island of mountains. The Japanese knew the lay of the land and had defenses in place to prevent such an invasion (thanks to Ghengis Kahn). If they tried they would have been walking into death traps the whole time and even if they succeeded, they wouldnt have held it for long

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E32005 posted...

so you think that makes it ok. got it.

now you are just baiting and flopping worse than a MLS soccer player right now

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Philippines, Australia, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Caribbean

None of those are also mostly mountains. And they realized going to Australia was such a stupid idea they just used it as a place to dump criminals.

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

now you are just baiting and flopping worse than a MLS soccer player right now

euros flop; not MLS.

get your shit straight in both lanes

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Crazyman93 posted...

None of those are also mostly mountains. And they realized going to Australia was such a stupid idea they just used it as a place to dump criminals.

Madagascar is, Some islands of Indonesia are, Philippines has some mountainous islands

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Madagascar is, Some islands of Indonesia are, Philippines has some mountainous islands

Some =/= All. Japan is literally nothing but mountains and valleys. As for Madagascsr, you got me there I guess.

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Because

Smackems posted...

Samurai

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Crazyman93 posted...

Some =/= All. Japan is literally nothing but mountains and valleys. As for Madagascsr, you got me there I guess.

but why can't we just admit that areas that posed a unified population could prevent being colonized?

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

but why can't we just admit that areas that posed a unified population could prevent being colonized?

you still havent explained the crux of your argument

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I fail to see what Europe not colonizing some places has to do with white supremacy other then it boiling down to TC is racist and just wants to bitch about white people.

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Weird how no one has mentioned how incredibly poor in natural resources Japan is. Imperial Japan started colonizing parts of Asia for that very reason.

You could also argue the Meiji Restoration and modernization was a direct response to the soft colonization occuring then. The motto for the anti-bakufu forces was revere the emperor and expel the barbarians. However the emperor realized modernizing meant Westernization and working with other powers so they allied with and invited European powers while abandoning many traditions and adoptioning European technology and cultural aspects. This eventually allowed them to become a rival imperial power. Now Japan effectively is a soft colony of the US, but you won't find many people here that have a problem with it.

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They're half way across the planet and Japan had a strong military themselves after fighting and defending themselves against their own neighbors. When they did get the capacity to reach them they dropped the atomic bomb on them

I saw the last samurai, their military sucked. Even Tom Cruise was able to take out a bunch of them by himself.

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ssjevot posted...

Weird how no one has mentioned how incredibly poor in natural resources Japan is. Imperial Japan started colonizing parts of Asia for that very reason.

this.
for example, part of the reason they're well known for the folded steel thing is (atleast what i've heard) that their iron sources is pretty shit, so they had to figure out a more convoluted method to clear out the impurities

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2Pacavelli posted...

They're half way across the planet and Japan had a strong military themselves after fighting and defending themselves against their own neighbors. When they did get the capacity to reach them they dropped the atomic bomb on them

Japan fought off two Mongol invasions that were primarily defeated by the weather before the rise of Sengoku Jidai warfare and the adoption of guns from European traders They absolutely did not have a good military by the time of the Meiji restoration (which again occurred in response to soft colonization). Both sides of that conflict hired European military trainers and bought arms from Europe. Japan had nothing modern in terms of military at that time. The whole reason America was successful in dictating to Japan they had to open to foreign trade and allow foreigners to set up shop where they wanted was because they showed up with ships and weapons Japan couldn't resist. Kick the foreigners out was the popular opinion among the masses. A few places even attempted to attack European ships and a few Europeans were killed but the disproportionate retaliation was largely tolerated by the government allowing further resentment. The Meiji government rode that resentment to victory and then abandoned it in favor of allying with Europe and modernizing, allowing for Japan itself to become an imperial power.

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ROBANN_88 posted...

this.
for example, part of the reason they're well known for the folded steel thing is (atleast what i've heard) that their iron sources is pretty shit, so they had to figure out a more convoluted method to clear out the impurities

Yeah, Japan has poor iron ore resources, and it is now imported largely from China. Nippon Steel is actually the third largest steel manufacturer in the world, but much of that steel is sold right back to China. The new system of interconnected trade is much better for Japan than colonization ever was. The defeat of Imperial Japan was actually a major benefit for the country in the long run.

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ssjevot posted...

Japan fought off two Mongol invasions that were primarily defeated by the weather before the rise of Sengoku Jidai warfare and the adoption of guns from European traders They absolutely did not have a good military by the time of the Meiji restoration

I mean historically. In comparison to places in the Pacific like Tasmania where the British genocided the entire native population. Japan actually had a good military and was capable of defending themselves on some level. Even if their military wasn't at its peak at that moment in time

The attempted Mongol invasions show that Japan probably had ancient kaijus and God summons on their side.

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2Pacavelli posted...

I mean historically. In comparison to places in the Pacific like Tasmania where the British genocided the entire native population. Japan actually had a good military and was capable of defending themselves on some level. Even if their military wasn't at its peak at that moment in time

China was thought to have a far superior military to Japan up until the first Sino-Japanese war (the results of which shocked the Western powers) and that didn't prevent colonization of China.

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ROBANN_88 posted...

this.
for example, part of the reason they're well known for the folded steel thing is (atleast what i've heard) that their iron sources is pretty shit, so they had to figure out a more convoluted method to clear out the impurities

Hell, the Nordic people (think Vikings) did the same thing, and actually folded even more than the Japanese did. At least until they could trade or loot better metals.

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ssjevot posted...

China was thought to have a far superior military to Japan up until the first Sino-Japanese war (the results of which shocked the Western powers) and that didn't prevent colonization of China.

A lot of western mistakes were made on Japan, just look at the beginning of the Pacific front in general lol and the Russian Japanese war. What were the Russians thinking sailing a navy that far away in to a countries backyard like that?

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

A lot of western mistakes were made on Japan, just look at the beginning of the Pacific front in general lol and the Russian Japanese war. What were the Russians thinking sailing a navy that far away in to a countries backyard like that?

Actually, the biggest mistake of the Russo-Japanese War was Tsar Nicholas ending it. The Japanese weren't exactly in great straits there, but the battle looked bad enough to convince the Tsar to take advice to sue for peace. It was really the point of no return for the fall of the Russian Empire.

As to where they sailed their fleet...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#/media/File:Japan_(orthographic_projection).svg
You see that landmass to the Northwest of Japan? That's eastern Russia, bordering China, Mongolia, and for a really tiny bit what appears to be the Korean Peninsula.

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Another answer: Japan shut their doors to most of Europeans because of <insert reason> here.
And China had the Boxer Rebellion and a ton of other events that speak to them being very victimized by the Western Europeans powers who wanted to assimiliate their culture.

But what am i but a poor hillbilly from Tennessee.
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