Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 352: Cool Aid, Man

(+) Yeah! (+)

xp1337 posted...

Schumer straight up offering McConnell a deal that if they take up the House's CASH Act he'll support a vote on Section 230, a voter fraud commission, and "whatever right-wing conspiracy you'd like." to call the bluff.

Ewww

I'm actually kinda scared that an anti-230 vote could pass given that there's some bipartisan criticism of it (though the motivations are very different on both sides) even though killing it would be very, very bad

---

Option 1) Play hardball, put pressure on the GOP Senate during an ongoing runoff where the President himself is on your side for the $2000 checks.

Option 2) Do literally nothing

option 2 big brain time

---

xp1337 posted...

lmao what was sanders's plan's endgame?

Let's say Dems filibuster a motion to proceed on the NDAA override? Is McConnell going to have some realization moment where he goes "oh, lord, i was wrong to stand in the way of the cash act. now in repentance i shall bring it up for a clean up-or-down vote" and keep in mind that he has to come to this realization by Saturday because once we pass noon January 3rd, the bill expires because this Congress ends and all its legislation with it.

the plan there would have to be that there is some other piece of legislation that mcconnell wants to bring to a vote before then that would be prevented by a filibuster

---

AbsoluteUnit posted...

Option 1) Play hardball, put pressure on the GOP Senate during an ongoing runoff where the President himself is on your side for the $2000 checks.

You are trying to leverage something McConnell knows you want/need.

This isn't hardball. Its just getting even less. McConnell would never give you $2000 checks in addition to something he knows you want just because you decided you wanted it less.

---

How can you get less than nothing?

---

_stingers_ posted...

the plan there would have to be that there is some other piece of legislation that mcconnell wants to bring to a vote before then that would be prevented by a filibuster

I think you're overestimating how much McConnell "wants" to bring the NDAA veto override to a vote.

Sure, he "wants" to because Trump vetoed it because he's having a tantrum, but he'd be perfectly content if the reason it didn't come up was because Dems blocked it and gave the GOP plenty of ammo for "Dems are voting against our troops" for a bill that is bipartisan and would have to be passed anyway. The NDAA isn't some Republican pet project that Dems could do without, it's a bipartisan bill (we can debate the merits of the NDAA itself bigger picture but let's not kid ourselves about the current calculus of it when discussing tactics given - again - everything in this Congress literally is on a clock under 72 hours long)

Keep in mind, the NDAA isn't all stuff like "buy weapons and bombs to blow things up" it contains things like pay raises for soldiers that they would love to tar the Dems with if they stood in its way.

---

AbsoluteUnit posted...

How can you get less than nothing?

You lose a spending bill with almost unanimous support and get no additional checks.

You didn't start with nothing.

---

Whose alt?

---

StealThisSheen posted...

Whose alt?

Pretty sure it's Tony

---

red13n posted...

You lose a spending bill with almost unanimous support and get no additional checks.

You didn't start with nothing.

Theyre not gonna lose the NDAA, its the perfect Bill to do this on because its been dozen a million times before and would never just get scrapped, our system isnt built to let it just go away, were talking millions of jobs directly funded by it.

See: basically every single year under Obama.

---

Democrats shooting down Bernie's plan is horrendous optics and proof of why they don't know how to play the game

Would McConnell refuse to let it go through? Yes. Doesn't matter. It makes him look like shit. Getting $2000 is one of the few bipartisan issues we're ever going to get and being able to put the blame for not getting it on the GOP is a slam dunk win for the Democrats

The fact that people in this topic don't understand that is baffling to me. No wonder the party struggles so much despite being opposed by stupid cartoon villains

---

I didnt even realize I was still logged into that account, lol.

---

AbsoluteUnit posted...

Theyre not gonna lose the NDAA, its the perfect Bill to do this on because its been dozen a million times before and would never just get scrapped, our system isnt built to let it just go away, were talking millions of jobs directly funded by it.

See: basically every single year under Obama.

Ok, if you aren't going to lose it, what leverage do you have?

---

Eh, I'm torn on it.

On one hand, I absolutely would have preferred that they stick to their guns and support Bernie's opposition.

On the other hand, because this country is so fucked up, "The Dems hate our troops!" would have been worse optics than "We don't support $2000 payments," and McConnell knew it, so it feels like it was sadly a no win situation from the start.

Basically, we don't deserve good things.

---

KamikazePotato posted...

Democrats shooting down Bernie's plan is horrendous optics and proof of why they don't know how to play the game

Would McConnell refuse to let it go through? Yes. Doesn't matter. It makes him look like shit. Getting $2000 is one of the few bipartisan issues we're ever going to get and being able to put the blame for not getting it on the GOP is a slam dunk win for the Democrats

The fact that people in this topic don't understand that is baffling to me. No wonder the party struggles so much despite being opposed by stupid cartoon villains

People seem to be equating this plan to forcing McConnell to bring up the $2000 bill.

He wouldn't. He'd just be "The Democrats are holding up a bipartisan defense bill". The $2000 wouldn't even come into play on his end. He'd pull out his bill with all the poison and that would be it. He does not care about anything.

---

red13n posted...

People seem to be equating this plan to forcing McConnell to bring up the $2000 bill.

He wouldn't. He'd just be "The Democrats are holding up a bipartisan defense bill". The $2000 wouldn't even come into play on his end. He'd pull out his bill with all the poison and that would be it. He does not care about anything.

It doesn't matter if he wouldn't. All that matters is at least pretending you actually care enough to fight for it until after Tuesday.

The leverage is, on one hand you have a vote for $2000 checks that is wildly popular and even supported by the President vs not doing that and also delaying troop pay.


---

McConnell killing the $2000 stimulus is DOMINATING the current news cycle and social media circles. On both sides! Blaming it on the Dems literally wouldn't work and hammering in that McConnell is shit would have genuine long-lasting optics

But no, just give up prematurely for no reason because Dems are totally spineless and love to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

---

delaying troop pay would be wildly unpopular.

Also thinking the President will be on your side when he will prefer McConnell's anti-twitter version with $2000 checks is not a correct take.

---

It would be wildly unpopular, yes

And blamed on McConnell

If you believe otherwise you have not been paying attention outside if typical left-wing doomsaying

---

KamikazePotato posted...

and being able to put the blame for not getting it on the GOP is a slam dunk win for the Democrats

We already got that though?

I just don't see what material gain was anticipated here. If you want to talk horrendous optics, then Dems blocking a bill that gives soldiers pay raises and paid family leave in the middle of a pandemic sounds pretty damn horrendous. I don't know know why anyone would think McConnell wouldn't see getting that as a win knowing that Dems are going to have to cave on the NDAA eventually whereas he's set until 2026 and doesn't give a fuck. If we agree that McConnell won't give the checks a vote here what exactly are we getting here for this?

If your plan involves teaching people Senate parliament minutia like "You know, actually all the GOP is culpable here because McConnell is only majority leader at the pleasure of his conference and if enough GOP Senators actually cared they could replace him with someone who'd give a vote" but if that's the plan you have far more faith in people than me.

---

red13n posted...

delaying troop pay would be wildly unpopular.

Also thinking the President will be on your side when he will prefer McConnell's anti-twitter version with $2000 checks is not a correct take.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1344272069727555586?s=21

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1344272069727555586?s=21

Now you are choosing to trust the President?

---

KamikazePotato posted...

It would be wildly unpopular, yes

And blamed on McConnell

If you believe otherwise you have not been paying attention outside if typical left-wing doomsaying

You 1000000000% have more faith in the electorate than I do.

Most people will start and end with seeing "Senate Democrats filibuster troop pay." They might also know and understand that McConnell is blocking the checks but I feel like most people would go "both sides are being dumb; get both of these done" and the problem there is McConnell dgaf and will never get his side done while Dems will have to get the NDAA passed because they can't just indefinitely be holding it up, they'd get roasted for it.

---

KamikazePotato posted...

And blamed on McConnell

McConnell has singlehandledly gotten up there and blocked everything for how long now?

You suddenly think hes going to get blamed for it now?

---

red13n posted...

Now you are choosing to trust the President?

lol r u srs right now?

The Georgia runoff will be over before any troops paychecks will be delayed, you think the fear of Dems being blamed in 2022 over delayed checks two years earlier is too big of a risk compared to the optics of the current fight for $2000?


---

The fact you think anyone gives a fuck about the troops when they are starving ia hilarious. You are all, collectively, a joke tbh

---

But at least we know how these people end up in office lol

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The fact you think anyone gives a fuck about the troops when they are starving ia hilarious. You are all, collectively, a joke tbh

People vote against their own self-interest all the time. Thinking they are going to be beyond dumb moral platitudes now is naive.

---

And if that is the case, as I said, we live in a doomed country and we may as well let people just die then. Let them die, start over. Which I guess is fine, it won't effect me much but seems a bit wrong but hey

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

we live in a doomed country

Ding ding ding

This is the sad reality

---

And yes, red, THIS is pessimism.

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The fact you think anyone gives a fuck about the troops when they are starving ia hilarious. You are all, collectively, a joke tbh

Will you take this back then?

Because its not a joke, its just reality of how people vote..

---

You are a joke and the electorate is the whole circus. I am fine with this position.

---

Living in Georgia and with military in the family/with friends, I have not seem a single fucking person give two shits about a potential DMCA delay. Not a single. Fucking. One. The only thing in people's minds are the checks. The Dems thinking they would look bad for delaying and backing out of fear for their optics is a complete, 100%, total loss. Even the MAGA people do not give a shit about the military because Trump is talking about checks.

Anybody thinking this was the right call is completely delusional, and no offense red but you just spent the last 2 days straight being delusional about the vaccine rollout.

MichelBollinger posted...

Living in Georgia and with military in the family/with friends, I have not seem a single fucking person give two shits about a potential DMCA delay. Not a single. Fucking. One. The only thing in people's minds are the checks. The Dems thinking they would look bad for delaying and backing out of fear for their optics is a complete, 100%, total loss. Even the MAGA people do not give a shit about the military because Trump is talking about checks.

Anybody thinking this was the right call is completely delusional, and no offense red but you just spent the last 2 days straight being delusional about the vaccine rollout.

Has Fox News told them to yet?

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You are a joke and the electorate is the whole circus. I am fine with this position.

This statement is contradictory to your statement.

---

red13n posted...

Has Fox News told them to yet?

Also I may have to amend this to OAN of whatever the hell media propaganda machine they are using now. I'm not sure how much they picked up on this story in the middle of their coup attempt.

---

I mean, I guess I am a fine candidate for congress then. Stop posting fake news.

---

MichelBollinger posted...

Anybody thinking this was the right call is completely delusional, and no offense red but you just spent the last 2 days straight being delusional about the vaccine rollout.

Do we really want to get into this again?

My argument is the vaccine rollout sucks but we have not passed the point of irrecoverable yet.

---

Literally, over a 400 post sig wipe.

Fuck off lol. I'm not getting rid of it.

---

what got sig wiped?

---

Every single active post from my other account had it's ACAB sig removed.

They're going to have to axe me if they want to get rid of it for good.

---

Been nice knowing you

---

McConnell was just elected to another term and Republicans did much better than expected in the Senate, so honestly they give zero fucks about optics. They spent the past 4 years with terrible optics and the country said "we're cool with that."

You can't play hardball with McConnell because he's deliberately hid the ball from everyone. And people are cool with that.

---

Honestly, McConnell has a bill for $2000(Actually, $1400, but whatever) checks sitting at his desk. If people don't know that by now, political theatrics with an unrelated bill aren't going to raise their awareness either.

---

Tales of Vesperia has been a great game to play so far. Glad I bought it.

---

Should really check out Berseria after you're done!

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Tales of Vesperia has been a great game to play so far. Glad I bought it.

How have you not played it yet? Easily the best Tales game. Hell I know you had a 360 so you had no excuse.

---

I had 5 360s, red. That was the problem in the end. I started it way back when and then my 360 died.

Also it was 15 bucks. Abd I played it right away. For once.

Also my partner wants speakers for the house and she literally asked 'does red know a good brand?'God damnit she requests you by name now.

---