Current Events > Battlebots season 2020 discussion

(+) Yeah! (+)

3 of my favorites are fighting today, especially Beta and Gigabyte. Looking forward to seeing Beta split Rotator into 2. Green circles are the bot i believe are gonna win.

Gigabyte: Always been a fan of Megabyte in the old days, copperhead isnt going to be a easy win against for sure
Jackpot: Subzero sucks, sorry to say that. I love SZ's design and oldschool-ness, but he always had trouble
Uppercut: Not to be underestimated, that thing hits like a truck
Beta: Had really good wins in the older season, and even gave tombstone trouble
Valkyrie: Really good undercutter, did pretty damn good last season. Tantrum wasnt all that great last season
Atom 94: I have no idea what this guy is capable of, but the "Bite Force" meta usually always win
Gruff: Its gruff...nuff said. Hy

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I was going to make a new topic (the plan was to make a new one for every episode with the fight card in the opening post) but I guess we already have one, so... okay. Anyways, I'm really excited to finally see Beta again, and its match against Rotator is my most anticipated of the night. Copperhead vs. Gigabyte, Gemini vs. Uppercut, and Hypershock vs. Gruff also look like pretty interesting matchups featuring some good veterans.
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Go team rake!

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Showtime, ladies and gents. IT'S ROBOT FIGHTIN' TIME!
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AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, IT IS BROKEN IN HALF!!

/JimRoss
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Second fight was a total dud, but Uppercut vs. Gemini was brutal. Both halves of Gemini just got fucking obliterated like local enhancement talents getting fed to Braun Strowman. Jesus, that was insane. Now time for BETA!!
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Subzero is still subzero apparently. lol. It sucks because I really love its new design, but man...

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Beta is such a damn tease with that hammer, disappointing, but damn beta still got it.

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Where can I see this legally without cable? I want to help support them.

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That was total bullshit. I'm happy about Beta winning, but if I were an objective judge, I would have absolutely given that to Rotator. They were robbed. Beta did zero damage with its pushing and shoving, and should have earned zero aggression points for never firing their primary weapon. Plus, what the fuck is the point of the "requires an active weapon" rule if you can win a fight without using a weapon?
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El Mexicano Texano posted...

Where can I see this legally without cable? I want to help support them.

Sometimes fans post videos


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El Mexicano Texano posted...

Where can I see this legally without cable? I want to help support them.

You can buy an individual episode or the whole season (plus the previous two seasons) on Amazon Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B08PL1MT7F/ref=atv_dp_season_select_s5
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Calwings posted...

That was total bullshit. I'm happy about Beta winning, but if I were an objective judge, I would have absolutely given that to Rotator. They were robbed. Beta did zero damage with its pushing and shoving, and should have earned zero aggression points for never firing their primary weapon.

I can agree wholeheartly, even though im huge fan of Beta, he didnt use that hammer ONCE

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We had two really exciting knockouts earlier, but after the controversy of the Beta/Rotator decision and the two letdown fights after that... this might be the most boring episode yet unless Hypershock/Gruff is really exciting.

EDIT: Nope. Good performance by Gruff, but not a great fight overall.
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Calwings posted...

That was total bullshit.

Hear, hear! How do you score Aggression points without EVER firing your weapon? The decision should have been at least 7-4 in terms of points... Dude got robbed.

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Gemini getting blasted into orbit was the best thing about this mediocre episode
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Beta definitely won that. Damage is 5 points, control and aggression is 6. Rotator definitely got a few damage points in breaking the hammer, but that's all they did all match. Beta got every control and aggression point possible by spending the whole match smacking Rotator's weapon off the floor and walls with Rotator having no answers. Even the hit that disabled the hammer was Rotator getting a lucky bounce off the floor while they were out of control after getting smacked around by Beta. As for not using the weapon, Rotator set up their bot in such a way that defended against Beta's hammer. That worked, but then they had nothing else going, so where was their weapon? Certainly not hitting Beta because they ditched that blade to beef up the top one to defend against the hammer.

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Nah, you can't award full aggression to Beta since it NEVER used its primary weapon. What you're describing is lumping aggression into control. At that point it might as well just be 5 points for damage and 6 for control. Aggression and control are separate things. Control, sure, Beta had that nailed. But full aggression points? That's crazy talk.

Beta had at least 2 prime opportunities to fire its main weapon safely. I mean the person controlling the pulverizer stage hazard in the Valkyrie fight was right on target using a weapon far slower than that of Beta. The Beta guys winning without doing much beyond Robo Sumo Wrestling makes a mockery of the scoring system.

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DuneMan posted...

Nah, you can't award full aggression to Beta since it NEVER used its primary weapon.

https://streamable.com/4kxo99

According to the executive producer, you absolutely can. Aggressive driving counts as aggression points. And ramming into walls and screws counts as damage points.

If there was anything wrong with the scoring, it's that they had to give out 5 damage points in a fight where there was almost no damage dealt. If the rules allowed for it, this should have been a "low scoring" fight. Rotator should have gotten 1 damage point for taking off Beta's hammer, and Beta should have gotten 0. Or maybe 2 and 1.

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And yet, for that producer's explanation, the overwhelming majority of teams watching that fight ALONGSIDE the two teams participating were shocked and/or angry with the judge's decision. If the room can tell at a glance that something isn't adding up, it's rather revealing and important to consider because the fan audience will likely reach the same conclusions. Promoting disappointing outcomes can just as easily get the show cancelled a second time.

Since the scoring has to award all points the categories are necessarily considered relative to each participant in a fight. So, in the case of damage, for example, what share of the damage goes to which bot. In the case of aggression, while the producer explains that wedge bots pushing opponents into the box can count for points, the primary weapon is the first consideration. Beta never even attempted to engage their primary weapon. NEVER... Not at all. Just didn't bother. They weren't using Duck!, so there was no excuse of needing control as part of their offense. They just didn't bother, despite safe opportunities to do so.

At most, and this is being really generous, you might give Beta 5 out of the total 11 points. Full control, and some scraps from aggression or damage due to the technicality of pushing Rotator into the box. But in terms of an appreciable effect, there was none.

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Just watched the episode and I have to agree with feeling Rotator got robbed there. Beta put on a chicken shit performance. Might as well just build a solid metal box and drive it out there for all they did. I don't see winning points for aggression when you are too afraid to use your weapon.

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I have mixed feelings on this. It was certainly a tense fight, but the result left me in a bit of a "I'm not sure how to feel, happy? Dunno"
I feel a mandatory weapon use rule would be a potential slippery slope, because it already favors spinners as is. Just spool it up and done, flippers/hammers are already less effective and risk getting wrecked because of something spinning so fast you can't see might graze it. While watching bricks hump each other into submission is boring, I honestly got a bit bored last season because almost all of the dominant bots use nearly the same weapon concept. Biteforce, Hypershock, Lockjaw, Endgame, Witchdoctor, etc. simple, yet effective.

Anyways, there was a response that I also agreed with. Rotator specifically configured their bot to trash the hammer if it came down on them and to deter being hit, then is surprised they didn't get hit there. I'm curious if running the dual spinner configuration would have worked better, as then they could more likely cut into the less protected areas of Beta vs trying to cut the air and never getting flipped.

There's also the off chance that they would have fired their hammer if it didn't get damaged, but tbh they could have fired it when it was riding on top. So many "could haves/should haves" from such a short span.

I remember this show from G4 back in the day. Buzz saw weapons and ones designed to flip the robot over seemed OP. Former becuase its atk power was usually enough to wreck most bots, and the latter becuase flipping most bots over, while a huge advantage enough, ringing them out wasn't very hard either.

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Btw, I said making a mandatory weapon use is a potential slippery slope, because apparently they're looking into making it so that ring outs can't happen or are much much harder, further screwing control/flippers.

Purple_Cheetah posted...

apparently they're looking into making it so that ring outs can't happen or are much much harder, further screwing control/flippers.

I am not a fan of this idea. Ring out is a solid strategy, and not that easy to do. If you can get your opponent over the wall and out, you deserve the win.

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DuneMan posted...

Nah, you can't award full aggression to Beta since it NEVER used its primary weapon. What you're describing is lumping aggression into control. At that point it might as well just be 5 points for damage and 6 for control. Aggression and control are separate things. Control, sure, Beta had that nailed. But full aggression points? That's crazy talk.

Beta had at least 2 prime opportunities to fire its main weapon safely. I mean the person controlling the pulverizer stage hazard in the Valkyrie fight was right on target using a weapon far slower than that of Beta. The Beta guys winning without doing much beyond Robo Sumo Wrestling makes a mockery of the scoring system.

Okay, so 2-3 points for damage for Rotator. 3 points for control for Beta, 1 point for aggression because it wasn't with the weapon. Still a clear victory for Beta.

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powerman1426 posted...

I am not a fan of this idea. Ring out is a solid strategy, and not that easy to do. If you can get your opponent over the wall and out, you deserve the win.

Yeah, from what I've read/seen they're looking into adding a lexan barrier so that they can't go past the jagged arena sides. If it's really short it might be ok, as iirc they had one in the past you could barely see.

Just a bit wary due to their wording, basically trying to eliminate it.

The Beta fight was complete bullshit. They never used their hammer, despite having the best hammer in the business and instead turned their bot into an armored wedge bot. The bot type that Battlebots' rules are designed specifically to prevent.

It's particularly bad given that Kraken lost last week despite putting in a better performance than Beta did here against Black Dragon. Someone should go back in time and give Bite Force a win over Chomp while we're at it and make it retroactively undefeated.

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Gakk86 posted...

Okay, so 2-3 points for damage for Rotator. 3 points for control for Beta, 1 point for aggression because it wasn't with the weapon. Still a clear victory for Beta.

That kind of talk will get the show cancelled, again. 2 points in damage for what? Possibly scratching a tiny bit of paint somewhere? If Battlebots turns into the Robo Sumo Wrestling League it won't last.

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DuneMan posted...

That kind of talk will get the show cancelled, again. 2 points in damage for what? Possibly scratching a tiny bit of paint somewhere? If Battlebots turns into the Robo Sumo Wrestling League it won't last.

Rotator got 2-3 points for damage, not Beta, for the lucky hit to Beta's hammer. It also got 0 in every else because it spent all but the first few seconds getting it's ass kicked. Beta got 0 for damage, only because Rotator's disc surprisingly kept going after Beta gave it twice the hits that would have killed any other spinner, but good on Rotator.. But Beta did get 3 for control and at least 1 for aggression. Try to follow along.

You're right, though, there is a huge shortage of bots that can do damage in modern Battlebots. Only a couple of them have weapons, the rest are just wedgebots. Dozens of the fuckers, really. Whatever will we do?

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Gakk86 posted...

Rotator got 2-3 points for damage, not Beta, for the lucky hit to Beta's hammer. Beta got none. But Beta did get 3 for control and at least 1 for aggression. Try to follow along.

You're right, though, there is a huge shortage of bots that can do damage in modern Battlebots. Only a couple of them have weapons, the rest are just wedgebots. Dozens of the fuckers, really. Whatever will we do?

The problem is that if Armored Wedges are allowed, the Mets inevitably shifts to that. Then comes the push fights. Then comes the cancelation. Obviously it wouldn't be this season, but the active weapon rule was specifically designed to prevent it from going that direction. And at least at one time the rules had stated that aggression could only be earned by making aggressive actions with your active weapon. So they either changed it or judges are no longer consistently applying the rule.

Regardless Beta clearly wasn't operating within the spirit of the rule.

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Gakk86 posted...

You're right, though, there is a huge shortage of bots that can do damage in modern Battlebots. Only a couple of them have weapons, the rest are just wedgebots. Dozens of the fuckers, really. Whatever will we do?

Huh? Just look at the fight card at the top of topic. Nearly half of those are vertical spinners, half are horizontal spinners, and a small smattering run other weapons.

I guess you can argue that most are poorly built and bad at dealing damage, but if the producers only selected the most destructive bots, the round of 16 would just be 8 Tombstones and 8 Bite Forces. In happy to see a control or wedge in the mix just to break up the tedium.

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Gakk86 posted...

it spent all but the first few seconds getting it's ass kicked.

Not really, it was getting pushed around. I wouldn't say Beta did any ass kicking. They were a push bot, nothing more.
Gakk86 posted...

You're right, though, there is a huge shortage of bots that can do damage in modern Battlebots. Only a couple of them have weapons, the rest are just wedgebots.

I don't think you watch this show if this is your honest thought. That or you haven't watched in a couple of years.
Gakk86 posted...

Try to follow along.

Lol

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powerman1426 posted...

I don't think you watch this show if this is your honest thought. That or you haven't watched in a couple of years.

I've been watching Battlebots since it was on Comedy Central in the 90s. If you think the modern lineup of the NBC/Science Channel version is lacking in offensive bots then you're obviously very new to the show.

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Dill's driver does more with one arm than most do with two

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Gakk86 posted...

If you think the modern lineup of the NBC/Science Channel version is lacking in offensive bots then you're obviously very new to the show.

At no point did I say anything close to that. The bots currently are more powerful and destructive than ever

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