Current Events > Defund the Police has been a failure on every level

(+) Yeah! (+)

Politically: This has not worked out for Democrats, even though it was supposedly popular and a rallying cry.

Defund the police is popular with white college grads, but not with actual minorities. Minorities swung to Republicans by huge margins in 2020. This graphic is from southern CA but similar things happened with Black, Asian and Hispanic voters in Texas and Florida:

https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1326190869163225090

Policy-wise:

Violence has surged in communities where police had their budgets reduced and numbers cut:

https://twitter.com/MattGrossmann/status/1327445748301049860?s=20

Practically, no progress has been made:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html

How a Pledge to Dismantle the Minneapolis Police Collapsed

When a majority of City Council members promised to end policing as we know it after George Floyds killing, they became a case study in how idealistic calls for structural change can falter.

MINNEAPOLIS Over three months ago, a majority of the Minneapolis City Council pledged to defund the citys police department, making a powerful statement that reverberated across the country. It shook up Capitol Hill and the presidential race, shocked residents, delighted activists and changed the trajectory of efforts to overhaul the police during a crucial window of tumult and political opportunity.

Now some council members would like a do-over.

Councilor Andrew Johnson, one of the nine members who supported the pledge in June, said in an interview that he meant the words in spirit, not by the letter. Another councilor, Phillipe Cunningham, said that the language in the pledge was up for interpretation and that even among council members soon after the promise was made, it was very clear that most of us had interpreted that language differently. Lisa Bender, the council president, paused for 16 seconds when asked if the councils statement had led to uncertainty at a pivotal moment for the city.

I think our pledge created confusion in the community and in our wards, she said.

The regrets formalize a retreat that has quietly played out in Minneapolis in the months since George Floyd was killed by the police and the ensuing national uproar over the treatment of Black Americans by law enforcement and the country at large. After a summer that challenged societys commitment to racial equality and raised the prospect of sweeping political change, a cool autumn reality is settling in.

National polls show decreasing support for Black Lives Matter since a sea change of good will in June. In Minneapolis, the most far-reaching policy efforts meant to address police violence have all but collapsed.

In interviews this month, about two dozen elected officials, protesters and community leaders described how the City Council members pledge to end policing as we know it a mantra to meet the citys pain became a case study in how quickly political winds can shift, and what happens when idealistic efforts at structural change meet the legislative process and public opposition.

The pledge is now no closer to becoming policy, with fewer vocal champions than ever. It has been rejected by the citys mayor, a plurality of residents in recent public opinion polls, and an increasing number of community groups. Taking its place have been the types of incremental reforms that the citys progressive politicians had denounced.

This is another example of an idealistic movement that collapsed in the light of reality.

The vast majority of Democratic politicians didn't have defunding the police as a part of their platforms. Republicans did a great job of making it seem that way, though.

And yeah, defunding the police is a fucking terrible idea. I really don't know where this idea comes from that taking money way from X makes X better.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

lol remember CHAZ/CHOP/CHODE

pepperidge farm remembers

Another terrible idea that never should have been allowed to happen.

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Someone said on here once that the slogan should be Refund the Police, which is a good idea IMO. It was in response to people saying the slogan should be Reform the Police.

The thing is a large % of people who say Defund the Police just want to reform the police while another large % of people actually want to weaken if not totally abolish the police.

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"Defund the police" was not specific enough. It meant everything from abolish the police to let's have a separate department that comes out to do wellness checks or take statements after an accident.

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I thought it was meant to make me laugh at how stupid the far left is just like having a vigilante presence on the boarder with Mexico was to make laugh at how stupid the far right is

Folks are really running with the bullshit moderate narrative, huh?

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The problem is one person said "defund the police" and the phrase took off even though its "restructure the police so they only do police work and not all these other things when someone call 911 and it gets sent to the police because its not a fire or medical emergency"

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Which dems were specifically running on defund the police

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CableZL posted...

The vast majority of Democratic politicians didn't have defunding the police as a part of their platforms. Republicans did a great job of making it seem that way, though.

And yeah, defunding the police is a fucking terrible idea. I really don't know where this idea comes from that taking money way from X makes X better.

It's supposedly about taking money away from X and giving more to unrelated initiatives W, Y, and Z, and that somehow improves X in turn.
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Like it or not the police are founded in racism and racism is a continuous part of their existence.

The police force and prison system need to be dismantled and completely rebuilt. There's no one fix or friendly coat of paint that will change the fundamental flaws with either of them.

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Jiek_Fafn posted...

"Defund the police" was not specific enough. It meant everything from abolish the police to let's have a separate department that comes out to do wellness checks or take statements after an accident.

I agree with this. Essentially the only thing people saying "defund the police" is that there are problems with policing in the country. If you saw somebody using this phrase, there was a good chance you didn't know what they were actually calling for without looking further into their beliefs. It's probably why it was so effective for fear mongering.

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Maybe because defund the police, doesn't mean defund the police. The job of a police officer is far greater than what is should be. They're not trained for all the roles they've been provided. Other services need to exist to take care of these problems other than crime.

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MaxEffingBemis posted...

Which dems were specifically running on defund the police

Democratic leaders (Biden, Pelosi) didn't condemn the movement and did far too much to pander to the protesters (for example kneeling in the Capitol in support of BLM).

ThePurrrfectMan posted...

Democratic leaders (Biden, Pelosi) didn't condemn the movement and did far too much to pander to the protesters (for example kneeling in the Capitol in support of BLM).

You didn't answer the question.

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ThePurrrfectMan posted...

Democratic leaders (Biden, Pelosi) didn't condemn the movement and did far too much to pander to the protesters (for example kneeling in the Capitol in support of BLM).

1. You didnt answer my question
2. Lmfao what, no they didnt. They didnt even entertain defund the police

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MikeG posted...

Maybe because defund the police, doesn't mean defund the police. The job of a police officer is far greater than what is should be. They're not trained for all the roles they've been provided. Other services need to exist to take care of these problems other than crime.

Sure, I think most people could agree with that.

But it doesn't change the fact that "Defund the Police" was a really stupid rallying cry and backtracking to say "when we said Defund the Police, we didn't mean Defund the Police" is hilariously asinine.

Not sure why anyone is taking this bait

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#resist

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MaxEffingBemis posted...

1. You didnt answer my question
2. Lmfao what, no they didnt. They didnt even entertain defund the police

Not only that, but Joe Biden claimed(baselessly) that it was Trump who wanted to defund the police!

If a bunch of platformless activists can out-message a political party and a constellation of party candidates with countless millions of dollars and easy access to the media and voters at their disposal, I'm not sure it's the activists who're to blame. Also, weirdly it was basically only centrists who lost because of this, as opposed to the ones who are most ideologically sympathetic to the activists. Weird!

Legislatures defund schools all the time, which I guess explains why so many people don't understand what the word defund means.

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theAteam posted...

Legislatures defund schools all the time, which I guess explains why so many people don't understand what the word defund means.

Yeah, I mean... we literally have school systems that have been defunded so much that they can't afford to fix water leaks and shit. Not sure why this is done so much or why anyone thinks it's a good idea.

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I thought defunding the police meant cutting back on buying military grade equipment not necessarily cutting department staff or responding to crimes

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hyperpowder posted...

I thought defunding the police meant cutting back on buying military grade equipment not necessarily cutting department staff or responding to crimes

That was certainly one of the definitions of it. The big problem is that "Defunding the police" can be taken as removing all funding for the police entirely. And a few of the proponents of the "Defund the police" movement were pushing to have no more police in their communities.

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hyperpowder posted...

I thought defunding the police meant cutting back on buying military grade equipment not necessarily cutting department staff or responding to crimes

Depends on who you ask

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hyperpowder posted...

I thought defunding the police meant cutting back on buying military grade equipment not necessarily cutting department staff or responding to crimes

Unfortunately that crowd gets trampled over and drowned out by the loud mouth Abolish all Police doofuses.

CE is wrong again? No way!

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"Prosecute The Police" would have been a better slogan. The abolition and restructuring could come after.

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Dems let Republicans control the narrative just like they let them control the BLM narrative back when it first started under Obama.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Dems let Republicans control the narrative just like they let them control the BLM narrative back when it first started under Obama.

Maybe stop doing dumb shit so the Republicans don't have so much fuel.

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Not in every way. It gave Biden something to oppose so he could get moderates to vote for him.

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Most dems who lost didn't run on that.
So yeah lets blame their lost on that and nothing else.

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Squall28 posted...

Maybe stop doing dumb shit so the Republicans don't have so much fuel.

Or maybe leaders in the democratic party shouldn't be such shit in messaging.
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Maybe stop doing dumb shit so the Republicans don't have so much fuel.

Obama was treated like a crazy liberal socialist when all he did was capitulate to the Republicans and they still attacked him in that manner. When will you guys/gals get that there is nothing that Democrat can't do that Republicans would not treat like the worse thing ever

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Or maybe leaders in the democratic party shouldn't be such shit in messaging.

Defund the police is the epitome of failure of messaging.

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COVxy posted...

Defund the police is the epitome of failure of messaging.

Only because the democratic party let Republicans control the narrative just like they did with BLM.
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Minneapolis violence surges as police officers leave department in droves
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/minneapolis-police-shortage-violence-floyd/2020/11/12/642f741a-1a1d-11eb-befb-8864259bd2d8_story.html

If you want to talk about pandemics, were dealing with a pandemic of violence, Spann said on a recent afternoon, just as word came of two more nearby shootings. Were under siege. You wake up and go to bed in fear, because you dont know whats going to happen next. . . . And our city has failed to protect us.
Nearly six months after George Floyds death here sparked massive protests and left a wide swath of the city burned and destroyed, Minneapolis is grappling with dueling crises: an unprecedented wave of violence and droves of officer departures that the Minneapolis Police Department warns could soon leave the force unable to respond to emergencies.

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"Reform the Police" doesn't rattle the cages enough >________>

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cjsdowg posted...

Most dems who lost didn't run on that.
So yeah lets blame their lost on that and nothing else.

Let me guess, the Dems that lost were in moderate areas.

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Hey yall why are we feeding the month old alt

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Only because the democratic party let Republicans control the narrative just like they did with BLM.

Not certain about that. Still unsure what anyone means when they say defund the police. And I imagine that's part of the point. The idea was to push a tagline that would gain a lot of ground on social media platforms like twitter. But the issue is that you need to successfully pivot from gaining resonance in the community to pushing policy. The latter requires you to actually commit to positions.

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It was always a dumb slogan

The entire discussion around defunding the police was a classic example of people going out of their way to misrepresent an idea

They did the same thing with BLM

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COVxy posted...

Not certain about that. Still unsure what anyone means when they say defund the police. And I imagine that's part of the point. The idea was to push a tagline that would gain a lot of ground on social media platforms like twitter. But the issue is that you need to successfully pivot from gaining resonance in the community to pushing policy. The latter requires you to actually commit to positions.

People were saying the exact same things about BLM in 2014 so

Smashingpmkns posted...

the democratic party let Republicans control the narrative just like they did with BLM.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

People were saying the exact same things about BLM in 2014 so

Okay, so what are the policy demands that you think are central and obvious to the defund the police campaign?

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COVxy posted...

Okay, so what are the policy demands that you think are central and obvious to the defund the police campaign?

Rescninding military grade equipment
Changing laws like civil forfeiture
Allocating more funds for civilian review boards, and actually give those boards power
Increased de escalation training
Harsher penalties for police misconduct, including permanent banishment from the occupation

Those are just some

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