Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 502: Takahashi in the G1!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah lets be real, Rusev Day was silly fun.

But Killer Rusev was the best.

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Rusev was never a killer. He was feuding with the likes of R-Truth, Xavier Woods, Jack Swagger and a broken down Mark Henry, and his first legit rivalry he lost and then got caught in a dumb love triangle.

This is revisionist history. Rusev was getting clowned by The Rock and Lana was talking about a fucking downed airplane.

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I didn't see the post everyone's responding to, but I get the gist based on conversation.

Even if you like Goofy Rusev, it's the same argument I never understood as when folks have been like "Sami Zayn is actually a really good heel!"

I mean, yeah, but he was also one of the greatest babyfaces of all time. Just because someone's good as one thing doesn't mean they wouldn't be better, in some cases considerably so, as another.

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you're free to prefer rusev as a comedy act or whatever, that's fine, but to pretend eddv is in a minority for saying what every single person has been saying about him is comical.

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And don't get me wrong, if they repeat Rusev Day in AEW then they're being dumb. But there's a mid-point between Generic Foreign Heel Rusev and Rusev Day Rusev.

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Steiner posted...

you're free to prefer rusev as a comedy act or whatever, that's fine, but to pretend eddv is in a minority for saying what every single person has been saying about him is comical.

This is the only place I've seen anyone say "we want generic foreign heel Rusev."

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just because "foreign heel" is a common template it does not mean rusev's version was "generic", btw. the act with lana was great and over as fuck in the early days.

more to the point, AEW needs a Rusev more than it needs a Miro

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TheRock1525 posted...

This is the only place I've seen anyone say "we want generic foreign heel Rusev."

well first off nobody is saying generic.

secondly, that doesn't surprise me, what did you read reddit?

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can you explain who the rusev day character is?

the bulgarian brute character is the sort of thing that works in wrestling, it's easy to understand - rusev is a big bulgarian dude who is going to tear you apart. as long as he can be credible in that, which rusev absolutely was, it's a perfect pro wrestling character.

what was rusev day?

i can't believe anybody seriously thinks this, my head is about to implode and i just woke up

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Steiner posted...

the act with lana was great and over as fuck in the early days.

It was over in the sense that it's stupidly easy to play into the standard xenophobic audience WWE draws. "Russia is great, America sucks, please boo us." And then you beat up some jobbers, then a few has-been midcarders.

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TheRock1525 posted...

It was over in the sense that it's stupidly easy to play into the standard xenophobic audience WWE draws. "Russia is great, America sucks, please boo us." And then you beat up some jobbers, then a few has-been midcarders.

PRO WRESTLING.

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Steiner posted...

can you explain who the rusev day character is?

As a babyface act? No.

As a heel act? He's a delusional heel with a self aggrandizing level of importance that he feels the need to declare everything about him in a very literal sense (hence every day is Rusev Day), and you can see chinks in that facade when he's asked by an interviewer "are you elated blah blah blah" his first response is "I don't know what that means" and then a few weeks later he's adopting it as regular vocabulary (i.e. asking another person "Does that make you elated?"

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damn i really hate that guy, definitely wouldn't wanna be singing his name as he comes to the ring and generally laughing along with him because he's so likeable

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Steiner posted...

LAZY PRO WRESTLING.

Fixed that for you. It basically has no end game. The second it suffers defeat, it's done and the character almost never recovers. Developing a personality that can help you through the eventual losses you'll take does more for a character in the long run than generic 70's booking. Look at Brodie Lee. His first feud in AEW he literally lost, but he spent it building up a personality and character that allowed him to come off as way better when it was time to pull the trigger on him being a top heel in the company.

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TheRock1525 posted...

It basically has no end game. The second it suffers defeat, it's done and the character almost never recovers

this is what happened so I can understand why you think it's the only way, but it is not. this was just a fault of shitty wwe creative.

the rusev day character had even less long term legs, for what it's worth

anyway all i wanted to make clear is eddv is absolutely not in a minority for preferring rusev as a serious act (and in fact, the majority of wrestling acts as serious)

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alright one more question though; what wrestling match did rusev day make you want to see?

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Steiner posted...

alright one more question though; what wrestling match did rusev day make you want to see?

You're asking the wrong person since I was the one that argued Rusev was a career midcarder.

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https://www.wwe.com/videos/rusev-wrestlemania-31-tank-entrance

this ain't a midcarder

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It is to me. Nice entrance, though.

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Steiner posted...

https://www.wwe.com/videos/rusev-wrestlemania-31-tank-entrance

this ain't a midcarder

I mean... It's WWE, so he ended up a midcard like 95% of people they attempt to push. lol Tragically, moments of greatness like this don't mean much in the end. WWE ruins anything good. Four years later Rusev was getting literally cucked. For the second time.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I mean... It's WWE, so he ended up a midcard like 95% of people they attempt to push. lol Tragically, moments of greatness like this don't mean much in the end. WWE ruins anything good. Four years later Rusev was getting literally cucked. For the second time.

sorry, the word I should have highlighted was career midcarder.

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You heard it here folks there's no endgame to characters like Minoru Suzuki and Tomohiro Ishii so both should have adopted comedy gimmicks.

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no fun allowed

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Get you a Kurt Angle who can do both
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Eddv posted...

You heard it here folks there's no endgame to characters like Minoru Suzuki and Tomohiro Ishii so both should have adopted comedy gimmicks.

I don't watch a lot of NJPW so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but did these guys work "generic foreign heel" characters?

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WWE is seriously planning to start traveling to outdoor venues to the point of telling talent to prepare for travel and to give them 3 weeks notice if they plan to go anywhere.

Can Kevin Owens try quitting again?

https://itrwrestling.com/news/wwe-making-plans-to-leave-thunderdome-exclusive/

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I really have a lot to say about this subject

Short answer, Rusev excels in both roles

Long answer, Steiner is right that Rusev as a beast is better for business, but Rock is right that being a beast in modern wrestling on a WWE/AEW schedule for a long time is almost impossible.

This is why territories were great. Once you used up all your badass credibility in one place, you could just go re-establish it elsewhere where no one but tape traders knew you. Theyre kind of trying this now with Finn in NXT.

Of course, we dont really have those anymore. You cant protect someone forever when they have to work 30+ nationally televised matches in a year.

And thats why I think Rusev is better served trying to branch out past being a badass. Most of the people watching AEW know who he is and have already been exposed to him losing his badassery over time. AEW trades on not insulting its audience, at least to their faces.

It works with people like Archer and Cage because they are new commodities to a lot of the AEW audience. Miro isnt.
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I hear you, but at the same time with enough effort you can swing back and regain badass credibility.

3MB Drew to current Drew being the relevant example right now.

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FFDragon posted...

I hear you, but at the same time with enough effort you can swing back and regain badass credibility.

3MB Drew to current Drew being the relevant example right now.

I mean Drew also had to work the indies for many, many years after WWE before he could come back and try it again.

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FFDragon posted...

I hear you, but at the same time with enough effort you can swing back and regain badass credibility.

3MB Drew to current Drew being the relevant example right now.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I mean Drew also had to work the indies for many, many years after WWE before he could come back and try it again.

Exactly.

And even then theres a question to how well its REALLY working. Tough to gauge with no crowds
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Also the counter example to that would be Jinder Mahal
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Jinder was a pandering to the Indian market I don't think that should count as a valid attempt.

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I miss NXT Alexander Rusev when he would write his opponents name on a board and then break it
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FFDragon posted...

Jinder was a pandering to the Indian market I don't think that should count as a valid attempt.

It would be hilarious if reports came out that the Drew push is an attempt to pander to the Scottish market in preparation for them to leave the UK
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Jakyl25 posted...

And thats why I think Rusev is better served trying to branch out past being a badass. Most of the people watching AEW know who he is and have already been exposed to him losing his badassery over time. AEW trades on not insulting its audience, at least to their faces.

I agree he can branch out

My only point in this topic is that Eddv is far from the only person who disagrees with "Rusev Day" being the best presentation of Rusev, and that to claim he's on an island with that take is insane

I do not think "Bulgarian brute" is the only way you can present him - but, to Rock's point, I also strongly disagree that you can't just get over like that

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and please understand how silly you sound calling it "generic foreign heel"

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It did get a bit more generic during that period where he became a Russian national getting medals for heroism from Vladimir Putin
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I also think there's something to be said about how a lot of foreign or people with foreign background feel about being made into generic foreign evil person. I recall multiple people who have played that role in the past, indies or WWE main roster alike, that they hated playing it because they felt it was offensive or that they felt it didn't do their background justice. It makes sense that Miro said he never wants to do it again.

And frankly Rusev seems like he was the last of those types that this could catch on in current day. There's a reason they're a rarity now. I think we've moved past it now, especially in the climate where people don't exactly want to boo a guy because he says America bad.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I also think there's something to be said about how a lot of foreign or people with foreign background feel about being made into generic foreign evil person. I recall multiple people who have played that role in the past, indies or WWE main roster alike, that they hated playing it because they felt it was offensive or that they felt it didn't do their background justice. It makes sense that Miro said he never wants to do it again.

And frankly Rusev seems like he was the last of those types that this could catch on in current day. There's a reason they're a rarity now. I think we've moved past it now, especially in the climate where people don't exactly want to boo a guy because he says America bad.

The funny thing to me is that WWE even made American patriotism heelish with guys like Angle and Swagger

They just hate all nationalism!
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Also, Rusev never struck me as anything other than an evil foreign heel. You can give him quirks, but he was still the silent but deadly brute with a generic Russian mouthpiece who had multiple feuds saying America bad. He didn't have much of a personality outside of that, and Lana didn't either.

Even the infamous tank entrance was because of a feud that was mostly about America bad and "Can John Cena overcome this unbeatable foreign monster!?" Like I'm really confused that you think Rusev wasn't just a generic foreign heel then. There wasn't any substance to his character.

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well you see instead of his character being "tough jerk from Russia" he was "tough jerk from Bulgaria but likes Russia"

it's not the 80s anymore you have to have NUANCE and COMPLEXITY

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Didn't we literally have flag waving contests between Big E and Rusev?

How much more generic can you get?

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So, here's the thing no one is mentioning in all this: if the fans like it, and it's over, who cares? The point is to connect with the fans in some way. Russian Rusev did, and WWE fed him to Cena. Rusev Day did and WWE squandered it. If AEW responds to Miro in "whatever" way, he's done his job.

I like Cornette thinking as much as the next guy, but some fans don't give a shit if he's a "big ass kicking machine." Maybe the allure would be better, but you can put anyone at the top of the card if peple like them enough. Because they sure as shit will buy his merchandise as a sign that says, "WE LIKE THIS GUY!" Zack Ryder isn't who I'd call an amazing in ring worker, but the fans wanted him to be more than WWE thought he was. That's on them for not capitalizing on his strengths.

They just have to be able to perform up to a "main event" standard. Rusev might be able to, he just was never allowed to.

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So, here's the thing no one is mentioning in all this: if the fans like it, and it's over, who cares?

I mean, I sort of mentioned this. There's different levels of over.

Rusev Day might be "Sell t-shirts" over. Killer Rusev could potentially be "Sell tickets and bring viewers" over. Wouldn't you want to find out?

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Keep in mind that we have so many killers in AEW right now.

Lance Archer
Brian Cage
Brodie Lee
Wardlow

If they debuted Miro as another killer, he's just going to get lost in the shuffle. That doesn't mean that he can't transition into that, but Miro is a guy who was starved for literally anything creative in WWE for years. I'm sure he wants to be able to show a little more personality now.

So I say wait and see on Miro now until after the Kip Sabian wedding is done with.

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Oh yeah, there's a lot of killers there, but a complete dearth of goofy comedy guys, right?

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Miro isn't coming across to me as a goofy comedy guy in AEW right now, and I don't think that's going to be the direction of his character.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like I'm really confused that you think Rusev wasn't just a generic foreign heel then. There wasn't any substance to his character.

i'm saying that saying "generic foreign heel" plays into this idea that wrestling characters need to be this deep, nuanced layered thing. There's value in what you call 'generic' gimmicks, it's why they've worked for so long!

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They work but they're not often my first choice

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I think there's plenty of room for Miro to be a different act than his original WWE presentation. I'm pretty sure all of us agree with that. The only take that I found incendiary was the idea that not only was Rusev's best presentation 'Rusev Day', but also that that was clear and obvious and Eddv was the crazy person for suggesting otherwise.

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