Current Events > Why is American politics so tribal when the two parties are so similar?

(+) Yeah! (+)

No matter who you vote for you're getting some shade of right wing government.

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Cause they took our sports

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https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

are people still doing both sides in the Trump era lol

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so woke

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The problem is that the middle dictates the kinds of candidates the democrats put up. Theres some genuinely progressive people and ideas they bury within the party because they dont want to scare off the lowest common denominator. Its definitely pretty frustrating.

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p-m posted...

No matter who you vote for you're getting some shade of right wing government.

What are their similarities again?
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because culture is what people care about

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the parasite movie should be taught in school and politics

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People like to debate each other cause then no one has to do any actual work.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

The problem is that the middle dictates the kinds of candidates the democrats put up. Theres some genuinely progressive people and ideas they bury within the party because they dont want to scare off the lowest common denominator. Its definitely pretty frustrating.

I think we use this an excuse because people just don't want to admit how right wing most Americans are.

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then dont vote or write in Kanye op

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

The problem is that the middle dictates the kinds of candidates the democrats put up. Theres some genuinely progressive people and ideas they bury within the party because they dont want to scare off the lowest common denominator. Its definitely pretty frustrating.

"the lowest common denominator" is... certainly an interesting way of saying "wealthy donors"

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every time i see people both sidesing or rambling about dnc conspiracies i feel like a bunch of brain cells die off

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YookaLaylee posted...

What are their similarities again?

The bottom line for both is to keep their millionaire and billionaire donors happy.

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EmbraceOfDeath posted...

The bottom line for both is to keep their millionaire and billionaire donors happy.

I was asking TC because I wanted to know what hed say
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averagejoel posted...

"the lowest common denominator" is... certainly an interesting way of saying "wealthy donors"

I mean, I dont disagree with that either. The two party system isnt doing the people any favors.

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Because most Americans are stupid and don't think about their best interests.

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Not this bullshit again. No America does not have two right wing parties. Just because Europe has more left leaning parties doesn't mean the Democrats are right wing. Furthermore since America is the oldest modern democracy then the American system sets the standard. One right wing and one left wing party. That just means Europe has a few far left wing parties.

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Gamerguymass posted...

Furthermore since America is the oldest modern democracy then the American system sets the standard

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Because political became about people existing and not just how much taxes we get

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EmbraceOfDeath posted...

The bottom line for both is to keep their millionaire and billionaire donors happy.

such a non answer

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I mean in fairness it is rather stupid to bring up European politics when discussing American domestic politics/politicians

"This Democrat would be a conservative in Europe!"

Okay that's nice but we're not talking about Europe and you're not trying to win an election in Europe

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the democrats are absolutely conservative. how is that even up for debate

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Doom_Art posted...

I mean in fairness it is rather stupid to bring up European politics when discussing American domestic politics/politicians

"This Democrat would be a conservative in Europe!"

Okay that's nice but we're not talking about Europe and you're not trying to win an election in Europe

It's not stupid really, that's part of the point. The differences are so small that in Europe they'd just be factions in the same party most likely and right wingers would still rally around them. So from a non American perspective it seems really weird

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ledbowman posted...

the democrats are absolutely conservative. how is that even up for debate

I mean not particularly

Conservative Democrats definitely used to be a thing but their numbers have thinned quite a bit in the last 10-15 years

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ledbowman posted...

the democrats are absolutely conservative. how is that even up for debate

Lol...

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p-m posted...

It's not stupid really, that's part of the point

No it really is quite stupid.

p-m posted...

The differences are so small

In what way are they small differences

An answer with more substance to it than "wEaLtHy DoNoRs" would be appreciated btw

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Doom_Art posted...

I mean in fairness it is rather stupid to bring up European politics when discussing American domestic politics/politicians

"This Democrat would be a conservative in Europe!"

Okay that's nice but we're not talking about Europe and you're not trying to win an election in Europe

It means America is a conservative nation

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We're just better at politics, so we've narrowed what we argue about

Europe needs to catch up

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America is twice as big as western Europe (which is what people actually mean when they talk about how right leaning the US is), so it's not clear to me why they're the standard of political orientation.

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hockeybub89 posted...

It means America is a conservative nation

I mean

Yes?

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Doom_Art posted...

I mean

Yes?

So then it would be not be incorrect to say that both parties lean right and that one just leans further right. It would be not be incorrect to say the parties may not represent a leftist citizen.

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Everything is a team sport to Americans

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRF3r3zUGqk

>when the european conversative isn't conservative enough for the american conservative

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The measuring stick here is pretty ephemeral and depends entirely on the point people want to make.

Like, if democrats are conservative, then so are people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, because they're actually not really that radical in comparison to people like Biden. People get bogged down in the details only when they deliberately want to make division, but the overall goals are very congruent.

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hockeybub89 posted...

So then it would be not be incorrect to say that both parties lean right and that one just leans further right. It would be not be incorrect to say the parties may not represent a leftist citizen.

I mean like Anteaterking said it's just odd that western Europe is the standard by which you choose to align American politics

My point is it's a fairly empty and relatively pointless thing to say or compsrison to make.

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I think ideology is pretty overblown, most of our choices are very constrained. So for instance you'll have tories that are supposedly the conservatives but they are okay with government run healthcare. Even most minority parties of note don't actually want to eliminate publicly run healthcare, they just want to play around the edges of what it will cover.

But I don't think we would say the uk has no right wing parties just because they all this same baseline standard of what government action is acceptable, and it includes direct government ownership of certain welfare functions. It's literally just part of living there.

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COVxy posted...

Like, if democrats are conservative, then so are people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, because they're actually not really that radical in comparison to people like Biden

That's something the people who make this point themselves bring attention to

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I feel like the sheer size of the united states is one factor.

Not just population but raw land area.

European countries are much smaller and less diverse in terms of environment.

We have our mega cities but we have thousands of tiny, small rural towns as well. The needs and culture of those towns are gonna be a lot different from New York, Houston, Vegas etc.

Racial/cultural diversity, religion and immigration probably also play roles.

Honestly its probably best to compare us to the entire EU as opposed to an individual state as in broad strokes we are similar to the EU in that we are made of many seperate closely tied states under one overarching group.


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Balrog0 posted...

That's something the people who make this point themselves bring attention to

Only a subset of them, I'd say. I don't take issue with them because at least they're being consistent.

But the primary issue is that this type of reframing is used in a weaponized way to sow division.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD0fUz4rmQg

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Balrog0 posted...

I think ideology is pretty overblown, most of our choices are very constrained. So for instance you'll have tories that are supposedly the conservatives but they are okay with government run healthcare. Even most minority parties of note don't actually want to eliminate publicly run healthcare, they just want to play around the edges of what it will cover.

But I don't think we would say the uk has no right wing parties just because they all this same baseline standard of what government action is acceptable, and it includes direct government ownership of certain welfare functions. It's literally just part of living there.

The tories in the UK only support government run healthcare publicly and if their policies are taken at face value, in reality they've spent the last 10 years carrying out a policy of intentional mismanagement and underfunding of all public services with the ultimate goal of rendering them inadequate to the point privatisation is seen as the only option. That has been the British Conservative agenda for decades. They're also trying to destroy the social welfare system.

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Doom_Art posted...

I mean like Anteaterking said it's just odd that western Europe is the standard by which you choose to align American politics

both major american parties are right-wing. this is true whether or not you're using western europe as "the standard"

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p-m posted...

I dont know whats so confusing about this. Do you not know what the word modern means?

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averagejoel posted...

this is true whether or not you're using western europe as "the standard"

Noooot reeeeaaaaalllly no

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p-m posted...

The tories in the UK only support government run healthcare publicly and if their policies are taken at face value, in reality they've spent the last 10 years carrying out a policy of intentional mismanagement and underfunding of all public services with the ultimate goal of rendering them inadequate to the point privatisation is seen as the only option. That has been the British Conservative agenda for decades. They're also trying to destroy the social welfare system.

Sorry but this is exactly what I mean by playing around with the margins of what it covers. You're ignorant as hell of the American political system if you don't get how this is exactly analogous to the ideological difference between Democrats and Republicans


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averagejoel posted...

both major american parties are right-wing. this is true whether or not you're using western europe as "the standard"

"nuh uh!"

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p-m posted...

It's not stupid really, that's part of the point. The differences are so small that in Europe they'd just be factions in the same party most likely and right wingers would still rally around them. So from a non American perspective it seems really weird

It is stupid if you don't qualify it by stating which country you are comparing the US to and even when you do that it sounds a bit silly. Democrats are conservative by British political standards which means that they are conservative period..... despite the fact that the US has 5 times the population of the UK.

If you state that Democrats are a right wing party all that you are saying is that you are further to the left than the average Democrat. There is no absolute definition of left or right politically.