Board 8 > Magic the Gathering Topic: Zendikar (Almost) Rising

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rotation is almost upon us!

And apparently there will be a Historic B&R update on Monday. So many banning lately but I think it might be Muxus or Field.

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It doesn't put them down a card which is usually what's bad about bounce.

That makes sense. In teferi's case I buy that, because his static ability and +1 were so strong that it outweighed the fact that the bounce was sorcery speed. I guess a 3/1 flyer is ok too.

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Well, good thing I didn't go all-in on another Field deck yet after they hit Rec last time. I am a filthy ramp player at heart though so I hope they at least leave Uro alone. I'm expecting them to just take out Field and get it over with, but part of me wonders if they'll just hit Hour of Promise to bring its power level back down.

Been mostly maining premier draft this month but AKR...I dunno, maybe I just miss Dominaria but I havent been too inspired by it.

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also free my girl burning tree emissary, she did nothing wrong

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I would much rather get fucked by an Ugin that they ramped into then suffer being controlled over and over until they naturally get to 8 lands.

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i'm not a fan of control in general, but brazen borrower is nowhere near oppressive and I think it's balanced

it's a rate Exclusion Mage that hits nonland permanents and costs 5 mana over 2 turns

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Bouncing everything is just too much at instant speed.

And the decks that play it dont need to cast the creature until they're in the clear. Because it has flash it can come down anytime your opponent has a bad turn.

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I'm not seriously arguing it's broken, but it feels meta warping in standard 2021.

Like I'm not sure how many decks didn't run blue and brazen is in 100% of them.

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If we're calling Brazen Borrower meta warping now then we're in a way better place than we were with T3feri. We're talking about the difference between a two mana bounce spell that doesn't hit lands* and a card that says only one person can play at instant speed. It's not fun to get hit with an early borrower and get put behind in tempo like that, but as an early play they're giving up all of their turn 2 mana for your turn 2/3 mana. They generate very little tempo and their card advantage is a known 3/1 flier. Compare that to bonecrusher and how far that can put some decks behind... just kill your turn two play and have a 4/3 waiting at the same cmc. I do think they pushed some adventure cards a little further than needed, but these cards have come out in the same era as Oko, Field of the Dead, Wilderness Reclamation, Fires of Invention, and T3feri. I'm sure that down that rabbit hole R&D thought turn 2 petty theft leading to turn 5 Ugin was "fun."

*Maybe you didn't play magic when Boomerang was last standard legal, but they used to let you hit ANY permanent for two mana. If you want oppressive, imagine a game where turn one steam vents often led to turn two boomerang then turn three stone rain.

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Is borrower even better than man o war?

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Just hit diamond in standard for the very first time ever! I never thought of myself as very good at magic, I've only had a handful of 7 win drafts, I was silver or gold up until last month where I hit platinum for the very first time.

Some of it is definitely down to my playing a lot more since t3feri was banned, but I like to think I got better at mulliganing as I came to understand my deck better.

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Yeah my last 3 AKR drafts were 1-3, 0-3, and 2-3 so I just do not understand how to draft this format. Even when I try to draft aggressive decks they just don't come together for me.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

Compare that to bonecrusher and how far that can put some decks behind... just kill your turn two play and have a 4/3 waiting at the same cmc.

This is definitely true, but it's also narrower. Lots of decks can get away without playing a turn 2 creature. But they might still want to play an enchantment or artifact or planeswalker eventually. And late in the game the borrower is so much better when it bounces your CMC 5+ thing.

And nah I haven't played Magic for long, basically only Arena Standard and a dabble a few years ago on MTGO.

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Drafted a deck with Drake Haven, Archfiend of Ifnir, New Perspectives and like 15 cyclers. The actual deck itself is a little loose, but when it works it's pretty hilarious. There was a Shadow of the Grave in the draft, but somehow it didn't table. Oh well.

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Bought a pack of Double Masters (non-VIP) and opened a Ravenous Trap and a Conjurer's Closet. Needless to say I did not make my money back, but that's my lottery ticket for the year I guess!

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There is some part of me that finds opening a VIP pack appealing, but I already bought all the 2XM singles I wanted for my cube so I'm staying far away from those.

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They made Ravenous Trap rare for double masters? Ouch.

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The Mana Sword posted...

There is some part of me that finds opening a VIP pack appealing, but I already bought all the 2XM singles I wanted for my cube so I'm staying far away from those.

I honestly was considering a single VIP pack but a friend of mine got two and I think the value of the cards he opened combined wouldn't even make up the cost of a single pack. That was the PSA I needed to not bother with the VIP.

Good thing too considering what I opened in my regular pack haha.

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Yeah but what if you get a rare that's worth more than a pack

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pjbasis posted...

Yeah but what if you get a rare that's worth more than a pack

That's basically gambling. It feels great when you do, but you usually won't. Market forces alone assure that it's nearly impossible for the average rare to be worth more than the average pack. Your LGS is not going to buy the average rare at the cost of a pack when they get literally thousands of packs at a discount before you can even buy one. When you open a single pack and hope to get something of value (to you) you're either trying to beat the system or attach a value to a card that goes beyond the dollars and cents of the market. And when you do beat the system, the buy price a store will offer you is not the sell price that everyone attaches to the cards as its "value."

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Yea I buy a random pack here and there just for the novelty of opening packs, not because I want cards from them.

I would've loved to draft this set though but none of the LGS in my area are doing events.

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Ive really missed drafting a lot. I still have an unopened Mystery Booster box sitting in my closet I intended to draft with friends. Someday.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

That's basically gambling. It feels great when you do, but you usually won't. Market forces alone assure that it's nearly impossible for the average rare to be worth more than the average pack. Your LGS is not going to buy the average rare at the cost of a pack when they get literally thousands of packs at a discount before you can even buy one. When you open a single pack and hope to get something of value (to you) you're either trying to beat the system or attach a value to a card that goes beyond the dollars and cents of the market. And when you do beat the system, the buy price a store will offer you is not the sell price that everyone attaches to the cards as its "value."

This is a very long-winded way of saying "you should sell directly to other players, not via a buylist" :P
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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/august-24-2020-banned-and-restricted-announcement?qr=4

Field of the ded.

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While I'm not surprised that Field is banned, they do lay out why I felt wasn't strictly necessary. "its overall win rate is rarely at the top." While it was holding back certain other decks I'm curious as to whether or not that leads us to even more bannings. There are definitely decks I'd rather not see more of in historic that could have just had the doors kicked wide open for them.

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Jace and Nahiri from Zendikar Rising were spoiled. Damn, it's like spoiler seasons never stops.

Borderless Nahiri is giving me some serious Taylor Swift vibes though.

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I love the borderless Nahiri art. Her card is meh, but I'm totally fine with niche walkers that are powered down for now.

Jace is super weird and interested, and I have no idea how to evaluate that card. Cool that Kicker is back, though.

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I completely forgot kicker was in original Zendikar
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I hope nissa is small. Unless that golgari versiom is real

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Yea a Planeswalker with kicker is pretty neat. Lots of options if you have five mana.

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I love that Jace. It's an unbelievable value engine with no "I win" button on it. The draw-go type decks it'll power will not be fun to play against, but it's at once a more fair card than Nars3t and potentially much more powerful.

Nahiri is iffy to me. I like it, that's for sure, but its value ultimately comes down to how good the equipment will be in the set. I wouldn't count this one out right now just because there are/have been only two equipment cards worth playing in standard.

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

While I'm not surprised that Field is banned, they do lay out why I felt wasn't strictly necessary. "its overall win rate is rarely at the top." While it was holding back certain other decks I'm curious as to whether or not that leads us to even more bannings. There are definitely decks I'd rather not see more of in historic that could have just had the doors kicked wide open for them.

Yeah everyone is trying to make hard draw-go control work now

I hope we are happy with this

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I was playing Historic ladder and my opponent managed to kill me with a Brash Taunter and a Star of Extinction.

Not gonna lie, that was amazing.

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Spoilers tomorrow

There have been some leaks on reddit as well, unfortunately the post has been deleted

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https://twitter.com/sickofit/status/1300807579581296647?s=20

hedron crab btfo

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Woooow. I was hoping they'd reprint Hedron Crab but didn't expect that.

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notable - this one doesn't let you mill yourself, so it's not technically a strict upgrade

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holy shit time spiral remastered with old border cards

hype levels off the charts

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I wanted Phyrexia but I'll take a non-Eldrazi'd Innistrad I guess.

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I'm pretty over Innistrad, especially the tribal aspects. If that's what they're playing up here, I'm pretty out on it. I think the D&D set could be interesting if done right, but none of the regular sets next year have me terribly excited.

Time Spiral and Modern Horizons 2, though, sign me up.

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The Innistrad double set is TWO fall Standard sets at the same time. They've gone mad.

I want to be excited for the D&D set but this Party mechanic in Zendikar Rising is very obviously D&D inspired and is...not very compelling.

Time Spiral is pretty hype, I just hope I can actually get out to draft it!

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I've been pretty down on Magic in general, especially after Ixalan, and classic Zendikar doesn't interest me at all, but both Norse world and Harry Potter world sound like they have potential.

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If the D&D set doesn't have a card called Venser's Floating Disc, I will riot.

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The Mana Sword posted...

I'm pretty over Innistrad, especially the tribal aspects. If that's what they're playing up here, I'm pretty out on it.

The fact that they said one is focused on werewolves and the other vampires actually makes it seem less tribal to me. You can't just have a one tribe set. I mean I'm sure it'll be there but it sounds looser.

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