Board 8 > Magic the Gathering Topic: Zendikar (Almost) Rising

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, I dunno. We'll see. I never actually cared for the flavor of the original set all that much, I far preferred the Eldritch Horror type stuff going on in SOI, but I doubt there's going to be too much of that.

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2021 is looking like an interesting year for magic

can't complain about getting 5 big standard sets instead of 4, even if an individual might not like the pitch for one or two of them

I personally am most excited about visiting new planes, so Vikings and Harry Potter get thumbs up from me. I am meh on the d&d crossover, but i view it as replacing the core set so we're not exactly losing out on flavor.

I'd be unhappy about returning to an old plane for two sets, but since it's only taking one quarter instead of half the year i'm cool with it

I assume they're still going to be printing a commander 2021 (?)

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So they did say in an article that they're keeping the same amount of sets in Standard but changing timing around. Didn't really explain much beyond that but I assume that means that the second Innistrad set is essentially the "winter 2022" set.

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oh well, so i'll take back that part of my post. as consolation, i guess 2 consecutive sets of innistrad is better than 3 consecutive sets of ravnica

i gotta wonder if wizards is reaching the limit in terms of quality, balanced products they can release in a year. they started pumping out a lot more stuff starting in 2017

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I think that as the game grows and more people play paper Magic they just need to get more product out there.

I mean if you look at just fetches as an example, there's only a finite number of fetches out there and the number of players is definitely growing faster than the number of fetches, so it's becoming a limiting factor. The only way to get through that is to print more fetches but we already know it can't happen in standard sets (same with other staples that won't be reprinted in standard) so the only option is more supplemental products.

Although you could probably just argue that Hasbro just wants more money, which is probably the more likely reason.

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I think if it wasn't about money you'd be seeing more focus on reprints and less on the same cycle of new stuff to get every set. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass because I go in and out of the game but I'm not sure if there's been significant changes in WotC's reprint policy.

Like ok yeah we are getting three printings of fetches in a year even though two are limited (secret lair, expeditions, MH2) and I have to admit there's a faster turnaround on them than Zendikar -> MM17. But I'm still skeptical it's enough to keep up with the demand of more people playing the game.

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It'll definitely help. A bit more than MM3 did, at least temporarily. I think you'll see Misty and Tarn drop down to the $40 range once MH2 releases, maybe even a bit lower. There's only so much value a rare in a set like that can hold while it's in print.

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The Mana Sword posted...

It'll definitely help. A bit more than MM3 did, at least temporarily. I think you'll see Misty and Tarn drop down to the $40 range once MH2 releases, maybe even a bit lower. There's only so much value a rare in a set like that can hold while it's in print.

Oh for sure! I think it'll help a lot for a good chunk of time. I guess I am just pointing out that Wizards and Hasbro still stand to make more money by riding the line between affordable and collectable than totally keeping up with demand. They like that limiting factor. $30-40 fetches that slowly creep up in price so they can do it again is probably their ideal.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

So how do you flip over that new type of card that flips over?

You just choose sides, like it's a split card.

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Are they going to have checklist cards for the lands? I'd imagine they would so you'd treat them like double faced cards.

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Yeah, they showed checklists off in the video.

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Ah yes here come the insane flip lands

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Ah yes here come the insane flip lands

If it only did the one thing and couldn't be a land it wouldn't be a good card, at least with the option it's playable.

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Well yeah a good part of the power level is coming from the flexibility. I think having the option to have some of your lands be spells sometimes when you build your deck is really strong.

At least for the more recent formats I think there's gonna be a lot of these bad cards stapled to lands that see play

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Yeah, a lot of these flip lands are going to be deceptively powerful. Especially if we get a full cycle of ones that can come into play untapped.

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The one problem I see with modal flip cards as opposed to transformation is that you're potentially flipping (and unflipping after game end) more cards per game which could get really annoying. But then again I've always hated DFCs.

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Er, repeatedly? I don't think there are any cards that do that. You're just choosing land or spell one time.

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Spell lands are all extremely good, but honestly in a good way

Modern Sultai playing Archmages charm is dumb. Legacy playing 4 color Wrenn and Six is dumb. I'm ok with making colors matter

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Okay I do not understand these new flip cards at all. You cant just choose whichever side and flip them whenever you want?

You either play them as a land or cast the spell, and that's it; they never transform.

It seems you can also play them as either side from any zone, not just hand, so they work with Crucible of Worlds or the like, if you're playing them as lands.

EDIT: I was wrong about the front side part, for one because I forgot about the DFC duals.

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I think Golgari was the strongest colour right?

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No, Golgari was one of the worst. Dimir was best, Boros and Izzet are good. Selesnya is weak, Golgari is bad. Almost all of its common and uncommon gold cards are junk.

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Green lacked good commons, which is why Golgari and Selesnya both had problems. The Sultai colors worked well together, though. Selesnya was pretty close to unsalvageable, you kinda had to draft it like it was bad Boros.

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Man apparently my memory is bad haha. I remember deciding between Golgari and Dimir for my pack, probably because I just wanted Assassin's Trophy I guess.

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I recently pulled out the ol' shoebox and cataloged all my old cards. Seeing the value of a few of these, I'm now reliving the depression that 12 year old me experienced when I accidentally left like 4 or 5 decks in a middle school bathroom one day and never saw them again (tragic...no telling what I had)

Anyway this was a fun endeavor.

1018 cards total (not counting hundreds of basic lands)

$560 value (though the majority of that is from hundreds of cards worth a quarter or less)

Highest value:

(btw I didn't bother checking the accuracy of this app to see if the values are real or not)

$26 - Bribery
$26 - Grave Pact
$25 - Ensnaring Bridge
$17 - Purphoros, God of the Forge
$12 - Savage Beating
$11 - Overburden
$10 - Sylvan Safekeeper

Fun times. What's the best way to play Magic these days, anyway?

Digitally

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turbopuns3 posted...

(btw I didn't bother checking the accuracy of this app to see if the values are real or not)

$26 - Bribery
$26 - Grave Pact
$25 - Ensnaring Bridge
$17 - Purphoros, God of the Forge
$12 - Savage Beating
$11 - Overburden
$10 - Sylvan Safekeeper

those all look pretty accurate


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Play on Arena. It's pretty hard to play in person these days and there are some pretty valid ways of playing Arena F2P.

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Sorry, skipped that one almost entirely.

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I feel like without traps and quests, the new Zendikar still isn't really capturing the adventure world aspects that I liked about the first Zendikar.

Party is sorta interesting, but I dunno. The set really isn't resonating with me very much based on the spoilers, which is a bummer since really liked Zendikar and was excited to see it sans Eldrazi.

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Yeah it's weird. The set looks fun, if a little basic, mechanically but apart from Landfall nothing screams "Zendikar" to me. I was down on Party at first, but they've shown a few things that might be cool with it. But then party leads to all this other secondary Class Tribal stuff that isn't too interesting. I'd also throw Level Up in with quests and traps as iconic Zendikar weird shit that's missing.

Honestly I think Ixalan competes for a lot of the same adventure design space (Explore, the DFC quests) and in terms of flavor I'd rather be back there.

I'm hoping this set really pops off when you draft it though. It looks like it has potential.

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Level Up would have been interesting, but it'd be a bitch to keep track of mutated levelers in paper magic. I don't think they wanted new players to have to figure that all out at FNM. Traps would have also been a fine addition, but I still feel like the game has really moved past the design space quests tried to feel. A cycle of Sagas that tied into Party, on the other hand, could have made a nice addition.

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VintageGin posted...

I feel like without traps and quests, the new Zendikar still isn't really capturing the adventure world aspects that I liked about the first Zendikar.

Party is sorta interesting, but I dunno. The set really isn't resonating with me very much based on the spoilers, which is a bummer since really liked Zendikar and was excited to see it sans Eldrazi.

I was looking through the spoilers yesterday and thought the same thing. I couldnt quite place it, but it just didnt quite feel Zendikar-y. Certainly closer than BFZ, but something is definitely still missing.

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Idk, Lands are one of the things synonymous with Zendkiar to me and I think they crushed it in that regard.

i dont think Ive ever been more excited for a mechanic

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I think the two colour flip lands having basic land types would have been really interesting.

Yes, at that point they break the "not better than basic" rule, but if you fetch one of the types, it can't tap for the other colour of mana without being picked up and replayed.

I don't think they break anything unless something is slipping my mind.

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Two color lands are whatever. Spell lands are absolutely insane.

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I've never really liked the vanilla Zendikar setting; I preferred it when the Eldrazi were around. Kicker and landfall are boring mechanics to me. It's particularly funny to me that kicker still gets mechanical support. I don't really get why someone would actively want to 'build around' kicker; it's a useful mechanic and all, but it's just so unexciting. Party seems fun though.

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I do think the spell lands are sick but besides being land they don't feel very flavorfully tied to Zendikar, as DFCs don't in general. This might just be because Zendikar already has iconic land cycles - fetches and manlands - that fit in much more thematically.

Maybe it's just that it's a bottom-up design which now feels weird when you go back to these kinda vaguely defined yet very established planes.

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this set reminds me of Ixalan because it really feels more focused on the party classes than anything else
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yeah but hot take - dnd classes just simply aren't as cool as vampires, pirates, merfolk, and dinosaurs

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I like rogue tribal and specifically what theyre doing with it, but warrior tribal is kind of boring and it feels like weve done wizard tribal to death already.
Also the execution of cleric tribal seems very similar to past vampire tribal what with the life gain synergy and the artifact that has the aristocrat effect and the color pair its in.
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