Current Events > Pickup artists of CE how successful is push-pull iyo

(+) Yeah! (+)

For those not pua, push pull is where you compliment a woman and then take it back quite often via an insult.

Ex: you look really pretty today! .... is what I would have said if not for that dress

Sounds dumb as all fuck.

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mattymad posted...

It's dumb.

Pua is dumb and just a scam.

Just talk to girls like their a person. Works everytime.

You believe pua don't treat women like people?

That's dumb

Only push-pull I fuck with is emotional distance

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darkphoenix181 posted...

You believe pua don't treat women like people?

Not people that they respect, no.

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darkphoenix181 posted...

For those not pua, push pull is where you compliment a woman and then take it back quite often via an insult.

Ex: you look really pretty today! .... is what I would have said if not for that dress

that's not a push pull...that's just an insult lol

push pulling is a bit more subtle. it would be like: that dress looks great on you...but i think blue instead of red would be more your color

another example i use quite often: you know, you're the most interesting combination of ___ and ____ i have ever seen in a girl

in that example, i just combine 2 contradictory things about the girl (that are both true). completed example: you know, you're the most interesting combination of demanding and easy going i have ever seen in a girl

it works extremely well because: it provides a lot of emotional depth. you are complimenting without giving away too much of your power (ie you're not "simping"). you're showing observation and understanding of the girl via offering a lot of insight. and it steers the convo in a productive direction, where she can talk about herself, why she is that way, and how that would play off your personality, ie how that dynamic would work in a relationship

honestly...it's the most effective mode of communication in the world. i know instructors who only talk this way period, it doesn't even matter who they are talking to. hell, i talk this way in a lot of interviews.

downsides: it's hard to pick up, since it involves a lot of observation, reading of the other person and most people's brains simply do not work that way. it took me literally years to master. but it really is the secret behind "game" and "pick up"

disclaimer: all you are doing is sharing 2 contradictory aspects, one of them may be a little less positive..but it is NOT an insult and this is NOT a neg. if you are using/doing it that way, you are doing it wrong. when used correctly, it is is a very effective method of communication
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It's low-grade manipulation. Some of the No_U_L7 posts are fucking creepy. Talking about how he'll get a girl away from her group of friends, convince her to share an uber with him, basically gaslight her into coming to his place, then...well, you get the idea.

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mattymad posted...

It's dumb.

Pua is dumb and just a scam.

Just talk to girls like they're a person. Works everytime.

the thing most people don't realize, is that communication is extremely in depth

there's always ways to communicate more effectively

in order to maximize your effectiveness (not just with girls, but in life in general), learning to communicate better is always a good option

let me put it this way: you can talk to girls with no preparation like you are suggesting and literally have nothing ever work. the problem is...most guys are boring as fuck and have no idea how to have an interesting convo. being a pick up artist isn't about tricks...it's about being effective via understanding methods of communication
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mattymad posted...

No they make it out like it's a game with rules and ways to 'win' and they're selling the cheat guide. That's not how you treat people.

Guess what, there are no cheats. People like who they like. Not because they did some special combo move.

sadly, this actually isn't true. it's slightly true if you're talking about physical attraction. but physical attraction is only part of attraction. if you know how to communicate effectively you can build attraction with just about any girl in any situation.

there's a reason people call it "chemistry"...but you gotta realize chemistry is a science, which can be deconstructed and reconstructed
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it's also called negging and is a legit tactic. pretty girls are damn tired of hearing they're beautiful and hot for the 10000th time so anything that breaks away from that norm is something they're actually gonna pay attention to.

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mattymad posted...

No that's called being a normal person. Anyone prepping to make every conversation as efficient and purposeful as possible has some wires loose and by the sounds of it, a superiority complex. Conversation doesn't need prep

are you saying that guys should not learn how to be good conversationalists?
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what if you have tiny arms? Like you posted a picture from Google images showing a watch , on a little girls arm?

This topic is cringey.

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AsucaHayashi posted...

it's also called negging and is a legit tactic. pretty girls are damn tired of hearing they're beautiful and hot for the 10000th time so anything that breaks away from that norm is something they're actually gonna pay attention to.

NO, let's not drag that mystery method era bullshit into this...negging hasn't been taught in the pick up artist community since 2002
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Waste of time and energy. Not a smart thing to do no matter how you slice it

Lol, I forgot No U thinks of himself as a pickup artist.

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RemixRBG posted...

Waste of time and energy. Not a smart thing to do no matter how you slice it

that's way too much of a generalization. i def would not recommend it to most. would you care to explain your thoughts more?
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No_U_L7 posted...

that's way too much of a generalization. i def would not recommend it to most. would you care to explain your thoughts more?

I feel like in a relationship or courtship you're going to have a disagreement that will be an argument eventually just naturally, so if you spend your time creating fake push and pull scenarios and arguments you're actually working against yourself

Aeriis posted...

It works everytime honestly. It's irresistible to women.

*takes notes*

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You can also potentially ruin a good relationship and natural connection with the you're companion by trying to do the push and pull

Not as well refined as the D.E.N.N.I.S. system

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RemixRBG posted...

I feel like in a relationship or courtship you're going to have a disagreement that will be an argument eventually just naturally, so if you spend your time creating fake push and pull scenarios and arguments you're actually working against yourself

the idea is to do it so much it becomes so ingrained in you and it happens naturally

but i would like to note that most of the seduction techniques i discuss apply mostly to the seduction aspect...ie the "templates" i use can be used on dates with different girls. if i'm dating a girl i don't throw out the same template over and over date after date. that said, if in a relationship i find the chance for a good push pull, i will definitely use it.
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RemixRBG posted...

You can also potentially ruin a good relationship and natural connection with the you're companion by trying to do the push and pull

you gotta know when to use it/when not to. as with most things, it takes practice to zone in on it. like i said, most people's brains just don't work in that direction properly. the example used in the OP is atrocious and would never be said by any PUA with any sort of skill
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https://youtu.be/GaSwPnsTFY4?t=17

MY STYLE IS IMPETOUS
MY DEFENSE IS IMPREGNABLE

Push-pull is just simply dating dynamics. Everyone does it, but only PUAs consciously do it.

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Push-pull is just simply dating dynamics. Everyone does it, but only PUAs consciously do it.

if you've ever effectively teased a girl, you've probably done it...but a lot of people haven't and have no clue how to spark attraction so they don't think about it

a lot of boring guys can still get laid without doing it just because they're very good looking (relative to the girls they sleep with) so they don't think about it either
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Vermander posted...

This topic is cringey.

No, you are cringey

No_U_L7 posted...

you gotta know when to use it/when not to. as with most things, it takes practice to zone in on it. like i said, most people's brains just don't work in that direction properly. the example used in the OP is atrocious and would never be said by any PUA with any sort of skill

That is the example their websites give pretty much.

darkphoenix181 posted...

That is the example their websites give pretty much.

idk what website you are looking at, but stop. there's a TON of hack pick up artists out there. In fact I would say the field is 85% hacks. if you want good suggestions PM me
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No_U_L7 posted...

idk what website you are looking at, but stop. there's a TON of hack pick up artists out there. In fact I would say the field is 85% hacks. if you want good suggestions PM me

I am not looking for suggestions, I just wanted to see what CE thought about the example and technique.

Btw, since you are here, what is the most effective technique from your pua pov?

darkphoenix181 posted...

I am not looking for suggestions, I just wanted to see what CE thought about the example and technique.

Btw, since you are here, what is the most effective technique from your pua pov?

lol, that's a tough question to ask. PUA techniques aren't any individual thing, it's the combination of all the techniques. each one barely makes any difference, but combined the 0.1% differences all really add up. if i had to pick one, it would be the push pull.
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No_U_L7 posted...

If i had to pick one, it would be the push pull.

Interesting

I love how dumb white knights always inadvertedly condescend to women by acting like PUA's can "brainwash" women.

Really? Are you so simple minded do you think PUAs can brainwash you? Because if not...you're basically calling women dumb and easily manipulated. ...way to white knight, dude.

No, there is no brainwashing in PUA. 90% of it is actually inner game and ironing out non-verbal communication. The other 10% is communication techniques that better optimize what you say.

Really, it's glorified sales tactics. Most men are a good product, but they are shitty at advertising said product. Pick up is how to better advertise yourself to women, ie, put your best foot forward, instead of talking to a girl off the top of your head with no idea how to sell yourself and then beat yourself up when you run out of shit to say, your introduction is awkward, or you don't know what to do in certain situations.

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MajesticFerret posted...

I love how dumb white knights always inadvertedly condescend to women by acting like PUA's can "brainwash" women.

Really? Are you so simple minded do you think PUAs can brainwash you? Because if not...you're basically calling women dumb and easily manipulated. ...way to white knight, dude.

No, there is no brainwashing in PUA. 90% of it is actually inner game and ironing out non-verbal communication. The other 10% is communication techniques that better optimize what you say.

Really, it's glorified sales tactics. Most men are a good product, but they are shitty at advertising said product. Pick up is how to better advertise yourself to women, ie, put your best foot forward, instead of talking to a girl off the top of your head with no idea how to sell yourself and then beat yourself up when you run out of shit to say, your introduction is awkward, or you don't know what to do in certain situations.

lol it's not worth it dude, these guys wouldnt get it
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pickup artists are merely just another form of shapeshifter.

they twist and distort their true selves to present a warped perception to their prey.

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thinking "the same tactics" works "on all women" is the dumbest thing and only makes it seem like you don't realize everyone is from different experiences, different cultures, and reacts to everything in life differently

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Skiin_Walker posted...

pickup artists are merely just another form of shapeshifter.

they twist and distort their true selves to present a warped perception to their prey.

nah, that's not true actually, it's about understanding perspective and knowing how to connect with different types of people

Guerrilla Soldier posted...

thinking "the same tactics" works "on all women" is the dumbest thing and only makes it seem like you don't realize everyone is from different experiences, different cultures, and reacts to everything in life differently

being a pick up artist actually is about the OPPOSITE, it's about learning how to adapt to each girl in each situation/circumstance

Aeriis posted...

Yes, negging totally works. Make sure you do it on all women you are interested in

so have an easy way to know to avoid you

nah, negging is not something pick up artists actually do post 2002
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Weird

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The DENNIS system is the only real system.

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As for my thoughts on push-pull: I do not go out of my way to use it as it's too situational and I find it largely isn't necessary.

I'm an advocate that if you master the basics, most of the advanced stuff really isn't needed.

The funny thing about PUA is if you're brainwashing anyone, it's basically yourself. Humans have behavior patterns, a lot of which are hard grained into us over years, that you need to basically deprogram out of your brain as most of them just get in your way of being better at communicating with anyone, let alone women.

-overcoming approach anxiety and walking up to girls without being nervous
-relaxed and open body language
-using deeper vocal tonality vs. rising supplicating vocal tonality, which indicates nervousness (yup...this one is huge and most guys don't know they are doing it wrong until someone points it out to them)
-strong confident eye contact
-touching is HUGE. A lot of guys avoid this shit like the plague because they're scared shitless of doing it wrong, but if you also don't do it at all it's just going to fuck your dates up. If you go on a date and literally nothing happens, you are going to get nexted. Either that, or you're going out with ugly chicks or relying on the chick having the balls in the relationship instead of yourself...also a pretty risky low probability move.
-being able to go from platonic conversation to flirtatious conversation whenever you need too
-openers and closers are the easiest parts but you should have some go-tos so you don't blank and fuck things up
-you should have some go-to vibing topics so if you run out of shit to spontaneously say, you have something to default too. Nothing kills chemistry like awkward silences.

Sounds simple, but I would focus on all of that before I would worry about push-pull. If you master the fundamentals, you're already better at talking to girls than probably at least 90% of guys.

Hell, if you master approach anxiety you're already doing better than an overwhelming amount of guys. Ironically enough, it's probably the simplest yet hardest part of game.

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MajesticFerret posted...

As for my thoughts on push-pull: I do not go out of my way to use it as it's too situational and I find it largely isn't necessary.

I'm an advocate that if you master the basics, most of the advanced stuff really isn't needed.

it amazes me how many of the even advanced guys don't do push pull. IMO, not to be offensive to you personally, the guys who don't do push pull tend to be hacks. if you do the basics and you're an ok looking guy opening on a high volume...it's just chance that you find a girl

nailing the advanced stuff is what really optimizes your chances with most girls and what seduction is really about.

and i don't consider it situational at all. you just need to know the format and start your brain thinking in that direction to be able to come up with the push pulls on a whim. like i said, it needs to become instinct. and there is ALWAYS the right opportunity to put in a good push pull.

this may take the weirdness factor up a bit for everyone else ITT, but i'm sure you'll understand: my friends make me watch their infield footage and break it down all the time. i'm CONSTANTLY pausing to tell them where they could have put in a good flirty push pull
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No_U_L7 posted...

it amazes me how many of the even advanced guys don't do push pull. IMO, not to be offensive to you personally, the guys who don't do push pull tend to be hacks. if you do the basics and you're an ok looking guy opening on a high volume...it's just chance that you find a girl

Eh, I don't really spam approach and have a pretty good success to fail ratio if I eliminate girls who are taken, large group sets, and other sets where there's really low probabilities.

For day game, you might be right. I think you need much stronger verbals to succeed in day game.

For night game though? Non-verbal is king. Quite frankly, I don't think it matters what you say a lot of the time in night game as most of the places with the hottest women are so damn loud they're going to hear maybe 70% of what you're actually saying anyways.

If you have some decent looks and height and good non-verbal communication, it's not hard to get the girl to do most of the talking with saying very little.

From my experience, if you're the more talkative, quick on your ft with verbals type of guy, day game is a better match for you, while if you are less talkative but have really good non-verbal communication, you can be pretty mediocre at having a conservation and still do very well at night game.

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MajesticFerret posted...

Eh, I don't really spam approach and have a pretty good success to fail ratio if I eliminate girls who are taken, large group sets, and other sets where there's really low probabilities.

For day game, you might be right. I think you need much stronger verbals to succeed in day game.

For night game though? Non-verbal is king. Quite frankly, I don't think it matters what you say a lot of the time in night game as most of the places with the hottest women are so damn loud they're going to hear maybe 70% of what you're actually saying anyways.

If you have some decent looks and height and good non-verbal communication, it's not hard to get the girl to do most of the talking with saying very little.

From my experience, if you're the more talkative, quick on your ft with verbals type of guy, day game is a better match for you, while if you are less talkative but have really good non-verbal communication, you can be pretty mediocre at having a conservation and still do very well at night game.

I prefer night, but I treat it like day. I only choose venues with large out door areas.

The bolded part isn't actually true, especially if you're not tall or white
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MajesticFerret posted...

-touching is HUGE. A lot of guys avoid this shit like the plague because they're scared shitless of doing it wrong, but if you also don't do it at all it's just going to fuck your dates up. If you go on a date and literally nothing happens, you are going to get nexted. Either that, or you're going out with ugly chicks or relying on the chick having the balls in the relationship instead of yourself...also a pretty risky low probability move.

this is also called kino xd

MajesticFerret posted...

I love how dumb white knights always inadvertedly condescend to women by acting like PUA's can "brainwash" women.

lol great post.

the best part is that if anything even falls remotely under "pua tactics" it's an immediate red zone and can't be applied without being a manipulating, misogynistic woman-hating abuser.
somehow "only a sith deals in absolutes" comes to mind.

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