Current Events > So is epic right in suing Google and Apple?

(+) Yeah! (+)

My understanding is this is basically going to boil down to epic arguing they have a monopoly over the stores and are charging too high a percentage on transactions. Does epic have a real case, and if so, what does it mean if they win?

RadiantAdolin posted...

Google and Apple

RadiantAdolin posted...

monopoly

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but its their store

can i go into a grocery store and say "YOU GUYS HAVE A MONOPOLY ON YOUR PRODUCTS BY SETTING YOUR PRICES"

also more like fartnite m i rite lol

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its their stores so I don't get the monopoly arguement. I don't really care either way, no shits given...

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What percentage of fortnite players play via the App Store?

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Mezcla posted...

but its their store

can i go into a grocery store and say "YOU GUYS HAVE A MONOPOLY ON YOUR PRODUCTS BY SETTING YOUR PRICES"

also more like fartnite m i rite lol

I think the idea is that they're abusing the fact that there is basically no alternative to gouge people who want to sell something on the phone. At least for iPhone, idk how that'd work with Google when you can easily install outside apps.

Mezcla posted...

but its their store

in apple's case I think they have a point since apple straight up doesn't allow other storefronts. on android it's possible to sell stuff not through the play store so I don't think their case against google will go as well

but yeah they're right in doing it, someone should have done it ages ago, only problem is you need like a bazillion money to get anywhere with this issue

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It's one company suing another company over which one has the right to earn money arbitrarily on the users.

Epic is not "right" in this; they are just playing with house money. They're hoping that Fortnite is SO BIG that Google and Apple will just let this happen.

Except, you know, Google and Apple as companies are probably ten thousand times bigger than Epic, even with their being owned in no small part by Tencent.

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Epic should absolutely not be allowed to win, especially from what I've read on the subject, they apparently had lawyers on standby when they did it, meaning they knew it was against Apple & Google's policies.

As for the validity of it, Android allows you install things from places besides the Play Store, & while it may be impractical for most developers to go outside the Play Store, it is an option; base Android doesn't even have Google specific tools like the Play Store, which is partially how Huawei can get around Google's restrictions.

As for Apple, the App Store is the only approved store for apps in the iOS ecosystem, so they may have a leg to stand on there. Though the implications of if they succeed would mean it might be possible to challenge Sony, Microsoft, & Nintendo as well.

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Suing Apple: yes.

Apple has completely closed off iOS for competitors, you either publish through their appstore, or you don't. But give the size if the market Apple controls on mobile devices, you kind of have to from a financial perspective.

Suing Google: no.

Even though Google has a huge pressence on the mobile market like Apple does, at least you can publish through other means besides the Playstore.

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No, its dumb.

These digital stores have their own rules, no reason why they cant be followed.

BuckVanHammer posted...

its their stores so I don't get the monopoly arguement. I don't really care either way, no shits given...

It's their store, and it's also their hardware, and their software, and it's them who controls how third party software is allowed to work and how that third party software is distributed. Those are all signs of monopolistic behavior.

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Epic signed up to Apple's terms and conditions when they published games on the IOS Store. Now they take the high ground when they break the rules and Apple calls them out on it?

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

It's one company suing another company over which one has the right to earn money arbitrarily on the users.

Epic is not "right" in this; they are just playing with house money. They're hoping that Fortnite is SO BIG that Google and Apple will just let this happen.

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I think they should win in regards to Apple. iPhone users shouldn't have to break their warranty to install any non-Apple approved software.

If Google is indeed forcing phone manufacturers, to not install 3rd party stores on phones by default, in order to have the play store on the phone by default, Epic should win against them in my opinion.

I'm not convinced Epic will win in either case. Apple and Google will likely argue that they are just OS manufacturers and since they compete with each other, they aren't a monopoly. I imagine they have the money to drag this out longer than Epic can.

They broke their contract with apple and google which requires them to pay them money for having it on their stores.

Epic is NOT the hero in this. Nobody is

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Fortnite belongs to the people. Seize the means of entertainment
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Fortnite belongs to the people. Seize the means of entertainment

Listen, I don't know where you think you are, but this is GameFAQs, we aren't allowed to encourage piracy here.

Maybe. Apple does have a stranglehold on iOS it shouldn't, Google is much less so as you can install whatever you want.

Epic is just as bad though and whoever wins, the consumer still loses. Mega corporations duking it out for who gets to make a few more millions on their billions is whatever.

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Funkydog posted...

Epic is just as bad though and whoever wins, the consumer still loses. Mega corporations duking it out for who gets to make a few more millions on their billions is whatever.

Nah, it would set precedent on what Apple is allowed to do to smaller publishers as well.

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Serious Cat posted...

Nah, it would set precedent on what Apple is allowed to do to smaller publishers as well.

Well, did reference that in the sentence you didn't quote. If Apple can be forced to allow other apps like Google then definitely a win for smaller developers, but I guess we'll see if that happens. Rather doubtful.

Make no mistake however, Epic IS NOT doing it for "the little guy" and solely so they can make more millions on their billions.

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Epic isn't doing it for the little guy but that doesn't mean they aren't in the right. The case against Google is apparently more that Google places severe restrictions on Android phones and Google products. Android phones have to have the play store, they block most other stores from being available on Android phones, they require things advertised on YouTube to be sold on the play store, etc etc. They're using their large portion of one market share to increase their profits in other markets, which is where the monopoly talks come in.

darkbuster posted...

Epic should absolutely not be allowed to win, especially from what I've read on the subject, they apparently had lawyers on standby when they did it, meaning they knew it was against Apple & Google's policies.

As for the validity of it, Android allows you install things from places besides the Play Store, & while it may be impractical for most developers to go outside the Play Store, it is an option; base Android doesn't even have Google specific tools like the Play Store, which is partially how Huawei can get around Google's restrictions.

As for Apple, the App Store is the only approved store for apps in the iOS ecosystem, so they may have a leg to stand on there. Though the implications of if they succeed would mean it might be possible to challenge Sony, Microsoft, & Nintendo as well.

Not really. A smartphone is a tool and one important to society beyond entertainment.

The others are pure entertainment devices.

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parabola_master posted...

What percentage of fortnite players play via the App Store?

Not sure the percentage but they make nearly $3 million a day from iOS users alone.
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Epic is no better than Apple and Google

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dont know dont care

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Must be hard to take on tech monopolies, there are so many competitors you have to sue.

ironic they go the monopoly angle when they just spent a bunch of money basically buying out devs and stuff to put a bunch of games on the epic store only and not on steam not too long ago also kinda scummy they had the lawsuit and that whole animation thingy with the hashtag at the end looking to weaponize their fanbase against apple like they knew it was gonna happen, it's like they were intentionally baiting apple just to fight so that they keep most of our money instead of apple

In any case, I hope that if they do win this thing then at least that 30% cut will lower so the smaller devs can keep/get more of the money they deserve, that is insanely high and didn't realize it was like that until it was brought up now wtf

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Google/Apple are corporations who keep tabs on every single thing you do on their tech products, and if you're anywhere in the vicinity of one of their smart devices they can keep tabs on your offline life too. These are companies who sift through every word you say/type in order to cater advertisements towards you and manipulate you into spending money, who hear domestic violence and rape through their devices and refuse to act on it because they would - justifiably - be called out as spying devices which would hurt sales. They employ real people to monitor audio, and they don't cover counselling or other mental health services in the event of a traumatic occurrence like listening to a man beat his kids or rape his partner.

Epic Games has had close ties to Tencent, with 48% of their stock being owned by the company at some point - though there's a solid chance that Tencent owns less stock than they used to. Because the Chinese government can have unlimited access to information that's stored on Chinese servers at any time, if Epic ever stores your personal information - name, address, bank details, spending habits, player engagement - on a Chinese server, your information is open to the Chinese government.

Basically, unless they store all user information in a location where that info is protected by the law - which a company working closely with China is unlikely to do, as keeping details of Chinese players away from the eyes of the CCP is most likely illegal - or handle information pertaining to Chinese players separately from information pertaining to international players - which is almost certainly impossible in a game where you can play online freely with Chinese players, guaranteeing that any information pertaining to their game time will be accessible to the Chinese government - your information is not secure when you give it to Epic Games.

And honestly, your data is never safe with anyone - including Google/Apple - because next to no-one wants to pay more for hosting than they have to, and companies want the freedom to profit off of your private information which would be restricted in a country where your privacy is protected by the law. But let's not kid ourselves here, Epic doesn't care about freedom. They would store an unsolicited picture of yourself doing something private and embarrassing, and they would sell it to as many paying companies as they could just to turn a buck.

The thing is, Apple and Google do the exact same thing, on a larger, more terrible scale. Your information is exploited just as much, if not moreso, and it's likely going to China just as much as your Epic account state are going to China.

Epic is not a lesser evil by being a smaller business than Apple or Google, and engaging in the same practices in an inherently smaller manner. They are not your friends.

TL;DR none of them are justified, none of them are more righteous than the other ones. Your information is money to them, and they'll squeeze as much blood out of that stone as they can. Epic are not free speech champions. Google/Apple are monopolistic hell-corporations who exploit your entire earthly presence for profit, and Epic Games is doing everything in their power to match exactly what they're doing.

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MrMallard posted...

none of them are justified, none of them are more righteous than the other ones. Your information is money to them, and they'll squeeze as much blood out of that stone as they can. Epic are not free speech champions. Google/Apple are monopolistic hell-corporations who exploit your entire earthly presence for profit, and Epic Games is doing everything in their power to match exactly what they're doing.

It doesn't whether Epic are free speech champions or not. Apple shouldn't be prevented 3rd party apps from being installed on your iPhone, and Google shouldn't be requiring that any phone manufacturers that want Google Play installed by default, not also have 3rd stores by default.

I think they have a leg to stand in the Apple Law suit, but the fact that Android allows you to install apps from external sources knocks that leg away from the Google case.
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JE19426 posted...

It doesn't whether Epic are free speech champions or not. Apple shouldn't be prevented 3rd party apps from being installed on your iPhone, and Google shouldn't be requiring that any phone manufacturers that want Google Play installed by default, not also have 3rd stores by default.

I agree completely. I also agree that Apple/Google's 30% cut of all transactions is ridiculous, and that if this does result in that cut reducing, then that would be a net benefit.

The issue is in framing this as "good guys vs bad guys", because there is no good guy here. This is meant to drum up good publicity for Epic Games, and as seen from their Fortnite parody of the Apple II "1984" trailer, they're clearly painting themselves as some weak underdog challenging a greater system of oppression.

If their practices were targeted for being predatory, or greedy, or invasive, Epic Games would release a statement downplaying those concerns and trying to normalize a process that hurts consumer's rights to make them richer. Apple shouldn't be preventing 3rd party apps and Google shouldn't be forcing apps onto phones, I agree completely - but my argument is that if given the same chance to monopolize a platform of their choosing, Epic Games would do the exact same thing if they believed it would be profitable.

They are not the good guys, they are not a defiant other challenging the oppressive shackles of a greater evil. They're another head of the corporate hydra, thirsty to grow out and replace a head that has been cut down.


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None of these companies are operating in the consumers best interest so who really cares?

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I want Apple and Google to tag team Epic

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MrPeppers posted...

None of these companies are operating in the consumers best interest so who really cares?

Precedent.

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