Current Events > Baseball writer hears at least 6, could be 8+, MLB owners don't want a season

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1273331814480912384?s=19

Owners budging slightly it seems.

60 games, expanded playoffs this year + next, and pro-rated salaries.
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Please let this get accepted.

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Everything I'm reading from r/baseball and the Tweets that are posted, that the players/owners are having more amicable meetings atm and it seems like the sides are coming together. Still work to be done though, but it's looking like there might actually be light at the end of the tunnel this year.
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https://twitter.com/ByRobertMurray/status/1273340551312609285?s=20

https://twitter.com/MLBPA_News/status/1273330040306978816?s=20

idk what or who to believe anymore.

I just want to be depressed about my Mariners god dammit.
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Everyone in charge of baseball is actively trying to kill it.

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Bitmoji Baseball Man is doing his thing again
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

idk what or who to believe anymore.

I just want to be depressed about my Mariners god dammit.

Same. I can't survive on the KBO and baseball anime alone, I need my Cardinals back even if they're going to woefully underperform.
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Why would the players not accept this?

Players get what they want (full salaries for the games they play) and owners get a benefit of expanded playoffs for two seasons (so normally mediocre teams will get a playoff chance) and any beef from this argument is left behind.


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Damn_Underscore posted...

Why would the players not accept this?

Players get what they want (full salaries for the games they play) and owners get a benefit of expanded playoffs for two seasons (so normally mediocre teams will get a playoff chance) and any beef from this argument is left behind.

If that's really all there is to it, then I agree that they should accept it.

But knowing MLB, there might be some other concessions they want the players to make in exchange (like that one tweet posted earlier about wanting newly drafted players to sign for next year, keeping them away from free agency for an extra year) that the players might not be too happy about.
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Calwings posted...

Same. I can't survive on the KBO and baseball anime alone, I need my Cardinals back even if they're going to woefully underperform.

At least you guys have a chance at the playoffs.

Only chance we have is if it's like the first 6 games of the season.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Why would the players not accept this?

Players get what they want (full salaries for the games they play) and owners get a benefit of expanded playoffs for two seasons (so normally mediocre teams will get a playoff chance) and any beef from this argument is left behind.

Players want more games. This agreement also means that the union can't file a grievance.

Only things I can see that might make them say no. The owners nutting up to 60 games of a pro-rated salary though is gonna catch the headlines and be the ammo for the owners if the players say no. Apparently this deal is worth the same (in monetary value overall) as the last deal the owners gave though.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1273333001959636999?s=20

Who knows at this point. I think the agreement will be roughly 70-80 games by the end of it.
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Fuck the owners for trying to get ads on uniforms

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Passan says the players think 60 games is too short.

Back to the drawing board.
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Turning down 60 games full prorated is bullshit. As I said before both the players and owners are being assholes about this.
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Now this is on the players.

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I think the only thing that's truly in the players grace is that MLB's proposals haven't been moving as much in total dollars as the MLBPA's proposals have.

Like I said earlier, apparently this latest proposal is the same overall $$$ amount as the last proposal with % of prorated salaries but more games.

Not to say that the players shouldn't take this or anything, but I think that it's a piece of information that's important to remember about.
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https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1273684241101062145?s=20

Players new offer is 70 games.
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Yeah, it feels like every offer that MLB has given the players is basically the same amount of money but divided across a different amount of games, and they just don't want to go over that amount for any reason. Their only "concession" so far has been playing less games (and therefore making less in ticket revenue) but the players are still getting screwed over in terms of how much money they're getting compared to how much MLB makes from the TV deals. MLB is negotiating in bad faith because their offers aren't actually getting better for the players financially, but they look like they're getting for the players in the eyes of upset fans who don't know better, so they're trying to turn the fanbase's anger against the players
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Universal DH!??!

There won't be any strategy if there isn't an automatic out every time through the order!!!

Calwings posted...

Their only "concession" so far has been playing less games (and therefore making less in ticket revenue)

So you have no clue what this is all about.

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Haven't watched baseball since the 94 strike because of exactly this bullshit and it's fucking happening again.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Haven't watched baseball since the 94 strike because of exactly this bullshit and it's fucking happening again.

no that's in 2021 when the CBA expires, this is the owners crying woe is me without opening up any of their financials to support their statements.

These writers need to stop protecting the owners and let them get sterling'd.

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As long as they get a full per-game salary they are being paid fairly. The players have been saying "tell us when and where" and the owners did that but the players still said no. I hope the owners accept this new deal of course but if this turns into more back-and-forth bickering and there is no season this is on the players as of now.

People who take the players' side no matter what are not being honest in this argument.

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Just play 80 games half a season fuck the owners still cuz they suck

Damn_Underscore posted...

As long as they get a full per-game salary they are being paid fairly

would you feel you were being paid fairly if your boss told you they were cutting back to 2 days a week, but he'd pay you the same hourly rate?

The difference between earning 1/3 of your salary like the owners want to pay and 1/2 of your salary like the players want, isn't some inconsequential difference. Which doesn't even get into the trash garbage owners who aren't paying their minor league players anything and are trying to make their new draftees sign contracts that start in 2021 to keep them under controlled salary for another year.

Doing all of this while they re-signed a billion dollar deal to broadcast their playoffs and crying woe is me, no we won't prove that with our finical records. Trust us, we're nice honest guys, espn said so after we told them too!

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SevenTenths posted...

would you feel you were being paid fairly if your boss told you they were cutting back to 2 days a week, but he'd pay you the same hourly rate?

This is not an equivalent comparison. Baseball players make millions. Besides that, the way baseball players are paid is inherently different from salaried workers.

There is a reason the players aren't asking for their full salaries. MLB salaries are guaranteed, but only up to a point. If there is no season played, the players won't get payed. If players were asking for their full salaries, everyone would be blaming them for this. But they aren't doing that, and I don't think there was ever a strike or lockout in sports history during which the players still got paid. This is why these contracts have signing bonuses (although interestingly MLB contracts rarely have signing bonuses, at least compared to NHL contracts. This will probably change in the future).


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SevenTenths posted...

no that's in 2021 when the CBA expires, this is the owners crying woe is me without opening up any of their financials to support their statements.

These writers need to stop protecting the owners and let them get sterling'd.

No, there was a nasty strike in 94 that soured baseball in the public's eyes. It's why Selig didn't care about steroids until Congress stepped in. Home run records were being set and people were liking the product, so of course he wasn't going to step in and stop it until he was forced.

It also helped destroy the Expos chances of staying in Montreal as they were well on their way to being a favorite in the NL until the season just stopped in August.
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A large part of the Expos failure was still cheap (individual) ownership. They gave away Larry Walker.

Expos also basically flopped in 1995 and just missed the playoffs in 1996. Larry Walker probably would have brought them over the top. But they had basically the same roster in those seasons as in 1994 from what I can see, besides Larry Walker.

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The Expos were so cheap because the strike killed baseball fever in Montreal.

The team attendance went down 26% from 1994 and never recovered. Who knows what would have happened had they been allowed to play out the 94 season and possibly win/go-to the World Series. There'd still probably be a team in Montreal.
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Dorfmann_ posted...

Universal DH!??!

There won't be any strategy if there isn't an automatic out every time through the order!!!

This guy gets it. The NL would be so much better if instead of having a guy who gets a hit 1 out of 9 at bats getting 2 plate appearances a game from the 9 spot, they had a guy who gets a hit 2 out of 9 at bats playing the entire game in the 9 spot.

/s

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Damn_Underscore posted...

This is not an equivalent comparison.

it is

Damn_Underscore posted...

Baseball players make millions

not most of them

Damn_Underscore posted...

There is a reason the players aren't asking for their full salaries.

Hey look where you went on a tangent unrelated to anything or what no one brought up because you realized you were talking out of your ass but couldn't admit it.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

No, there was a nasty strike in 94 that soured baseball in the public's eyes.

no shit Sherlock, why do you think i compared it to the next cba strike we're heading towards


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What DH is hitting .222?
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pittsburghpirates66 posted...

This guy gets it. The NL would be so much better if instead of having a guy who gets a hit 1 out of 9 at bats getting 2 plate appearances a game from the 9 spot, they had a guy who gets a hit 2 out of 9 at bats playing the entire game in the 9 spot.

/s

I don't think you quite understand the difference between pitchers hitting and actual hitters hitting and how big of a gap that is.
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I feel like the 94 Expos are overrated tbh. All their players (besides a few prospect players who wouldn't show their true greatness until they left the Expos) overachieved for that one season, and also their final record was above their Pythagorean expectation (.649 vs .624)

If the Expos were that good then they would have continued to be good. And even if they did win the World Series in 1994, I don't think there would be a team in Montreal today for the exact attendance issues that they had in real life.

Also losing Larry Walker is fully on the Expos, they declined arbitration.

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SevenTenths posted...

it is

not most of them

Hey look where you went on a tangent unrelated to anything or what no one brought up because you realized you were talking out of your ass but couldn't admit it.

no shit Sherlock, why do you think i compared it to the next cba strike we're heading towards

Lol at how this post descends into negativity (even if the last sentence wasn't directed at me)

The point is that pro-rated salary is fair. To compare it to my boss cutting my work hours is just dishonest.

And you are wrong about players' salaries. The median MLB salary is $1.5 million or so from what I can find, and the MLB minimum salary is over $500k. Players won't have a problem losing a season.


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Damn_Underscore posted...

The point is that pro-rated salary is fair.

SevenTenths posted...

would you feel you were being paid fairly if your boss told you they were cutting back to 2 days a week, but he'd pay you the same hourly rate?

The difference between earning 1/3 of your salary like the owners want to pay and 1/2 of your salary like the players want, isn't some inconsequential difference. Which doesn't even get into the trash garbage owners who aren't paying their minor league players anything and are trying to make their new draftees sign contracts that start in 2021 to keep them under controlled salary for another year.

Doing all of this while they re-signed a billion dollar deal to broadcast their playoffs and crying woe is me, no we won't prove that with our finical records. Trust us, we're nice honest guys, espn said so after we told them too!

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Has nothing to do with what players can or can't afford. It has everything to do with employers just not wanting to pay their employees.

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And then we go back into baseball players making millions (or at least over $500k) and there being a reason why no one is asking for full 162-game salaries.

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Yes, exactly.

The owners have offered a totally fair deal, and while the players have a right to respond and they can haggle on the fine details, if there isn't a season it's on the players - whereas two days ago it was on the owners.

Again, people who support the players in this no matter what are wrong.

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What was confusing to you about what I posted?

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Antifar posted...

What DH is hitting .222?

Probably none. Which is why they don't hit 9th.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

I don't think you quite understand the difference between pitchers hitting and actual hitters hitting and how big of a gap that is.

In general yeah, but the point is AL lineups don't have guys who are raking in the 9 spot either.

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I'm against DH in the NL as well.

I like the difference in the leagues. I like the strategy of bunting (bunting will probably become a thing of the past for the most part). I like when pitchers hit home runs. These are things that will be gone forever.

But I'll take it if it means a season in 2020. I'll even take ads on uniforms.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

And then we go back into baseball players making millions (or at least over $500k) and there being a reason why no one is asking for full 162-game salaries.

SevenTenths posted...

Hey look where you went on a tangent unrelated to anything or what no one brought up because you realized you were talking out of your ass but couldn't admit it.

SevenTenths posted...

would you feel you were being paid fairly if your boss told you they were cutting back to 2 days a week, but he'd pay you the same hourly rate?

The difference between earning 1/3 of your salary like the owners want to pay and 1/2 of your salary like the players want, isn't some inconsequential difference. Which doesn't even get into the trash garbage owners who aren't paying their minor league players anything and are trying to make their new draftees sign contracts that start in 2021 to keep them under controlled salary for another year.

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Antifar posted...

What DH is hitting .222?

Pujols

I look forward to watching Maddon drop his ass in the order to 9

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The owners offered with a 60 game season. The players countered with a 70 game season. That is an inconsequential difference - about 6%

Your numbers are inaccurate.

Also the players look really bad with the "when and where" thing. The owners told them when and where, and the players still said no. Regardless of whether this eventually becomes an agreement or not, that is still apparent to many people, as seen in the twitter comments.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

I feel like the 94 Expos are overrated tbh. All their players (besides a few prospect players who wouldn't show their true greatness until they left the Expos) overachieved for that one season, and also their final record was above their Pythagorean expectation (.649 vs .624)

If the Expos were that good then they would have continued to be good. And even if they did win the World Series in 1994, I don't think there would be a team in Montreal today for the exact attendance issues that they had in real life.

Also losing Larry Walker is fully on the Expos, they declined arbitration.

I mean again, its hard to tell what would happen because the 94 strike was so bad for baseball. Remember, baseball as a whole took a loss and Montreal took the biggest loss.

I know we cant just assume that baseball would still be Montreal today, but the owners wouldnt have had to cut as much as they did assuming attendance stayed at 94 levels vs the huge hit they took.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Again, people who support the players in this no matter what are wrong.

I mean, just because the headlines look good doesnt mean the meat of the proposal is good. Again, this isnt a shift in more money to the players overall; their last offer was worth roughly the same as this offer was in total money.

The owners havent moved as much as you think they have. Not to say the players have been perfect, but theyve still been better in the negotiations than the owners have.

The same owners that refuse to show the players their books to prove their losses.
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pittsburghpirates66 posted...

Probably none. Which is why they don't hit 9th.

In general yeah, but the point is AL lineups don't have guys who are raking in the 9 spot either.

Ok? Its still adding a legitimate batter in a pitchers spot. Just because the lineup shifts a little so it looks similar (still a bad hitter at the bottom of the lineup) doesnt mean that over a longer season (its also a proposed change for the 2021 season), the numbers wont be the same.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

That is an inconsequential difference - about 6%

so you did as bad at math as you did at reading.

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