Current Events > Man drowns as officers look on without coming to his aid

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm ignoring you, Zitken. No sense in debating with you since you're all caught up in the current hype.

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Gheb posted...

Also being able to swim be a minimum requirement unfairly discriminates against people who grew up in urban areas or from poor financial backgrounds as these individuals don't have the same access to pools or the time/resources to have swimming lessons.

they can have a pool at a training facility. that's not really much of an excuse. swimming is not that hard to learn. it doesn't matter hold old you are or how you grew up. anyone can swim. it's mostly a mental block on people who think it's so hard. most people think they can't swim until they try and realize how easy it is

Gheb posted...

Also being able to swim be a minimum requirement unfairly discriminates against people who grew up in urban areas or from poor financial backgrounds as these individuals don't have the same access to pools or the time/resources to have swimming lessons.

a dog whistle if I've ever seen one
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UnlikedMonkey posted...

"It's a part of your job to protect and serve the community"

I don't think she's seen the many, many court rulings that state otherwise.

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Zikten posted...

they can have a pool at a training facility. that's not really much of an excuse. swimming is not that hard to learn. it doesn't matter hold old you are or how you grew up. anyone can swim. it's mostly a mental block on people who think it's so hard. most people think they can't swim until they try and realize how easy it is

Whether or not cops should or shouldn't learn to swim, the fact of the situation is that one of them didn't know how to swim.

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to pass on being outraged on this one unless more info comes out about it. Almost everything about the situation was stacked against the officers, and very likely could've led to more deaths.

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Houston posted...

the fact of the situation is that one of them didn't know how to swim.

yes I know that. I am saying that was unacceptable. he shouldn't have been there. he should not have been a cop

Houston posted...

Whether or not cops should or shouldn't learn to swim, the fact of the situation is that one of them didn't know how to swim.

Don't even waste your time. He doesn't understand. It's not even like knowing how to swim translates to "Knowing how to rescue someone struggling against you.".

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Zikten posted...

you CAN take clothes off you know. I am not being asinine. I am being logical and humane. to me, the people disagreeing with me are making no goddamned sense.

Not trying to be a jerk but doesnt it seem like you are ignoring the other posts here about how a much smaller person can drown a much big person, even if that person IS a good swimmer.


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deoxxys posted...

Not trying to be a jerk but doesnt it seem like you are ignoring the other posts here about how a much smaller person can drown a much big person, even if that person IS a good swimmer.

there were 2 cops. though. had they both known how to swim they could have handled a panicked guy in the water

"The criminal has dived into the lake!"

"Engaging water pursuit."

*strips, speeds through water with expert swimming technique*

"Stop where you are and tread!"

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Jabodie posted...

"The criminal has dived into the lake!"

"Engaging water pursuit."

*strips, speeds through water with expert swimming technique*

"Stop where you are and tread!"

Literally what this dude expects. That's why I had to ignore him, I'm going to get modded just for saying totally reasonable things to him.

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Zikten posted...

they can have a pool at a training facility. that's not really much of an excuse. swimming is not that hard to learn. it doesn't matter hold old you are or how you grew up. anyone can swim. it's mostly a mental block on people who think it's so hard. most people think they can't swim until they try and realize how easy it is

Okay fine. Let's say every police department gains access to a pool and requires everyone of their cops to learn to be proficient at swimming. Are they then going to have everyone of their officers certified in lifesaving techniques? Will cops all need to carry lifebuoys with them at all times so they can actually follow the techniques they are trained in?

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

a dog whistle if I've ever seen one

I'm sorry you are interpreting what I said as a dogwhistle. Would you prefer I just say that it would unfairly discriminate against black people, which is a considerably more generalized and less-accurate statement?

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Gheb posted...

Are they then going to have everyone of their officers certified in lifesaving techniques?

yes

Gheb posted...

Will cops all need to carry lifebuoys with them at all times so they can actually follow the techniques they are trained in?

they could have one in their car. I don't see how that's such a problem. they have so many other tools

Gheb posted...

Okay fine. Let's say every police department gains access to a pool and requires everyone of their cops to learn to be proficient at swimming. Are they then going to have everyone of their officers certified in lifesaving techniques? Will cops all need to carry lifebuoys with them at all times so they can actually follow the techniques they are trained in?

I'm sorry you are interpreting what I said as a dogwhistle. Would you prefer I just say that it would unfairly discriminate against black people, which is a considerably more generalized and less-accurate statement?

Finish what you meant to say. You left out what you initially implied about them. I wonder why?
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Odoylerules posted...

take your gear off and jump in

fuck these cops cant do a damn thing right

Or how about the guy not flee from the police? While I don't condone any police brutality, and I've been very vocal about that, you can't resist arrest or flee from the police. I wouldn't jump in water where I couldn't tell how dangerous the current is or how deep the water is. That's just throwing my life away.

Police made the right call. I'm sorry for the victim but their poor lifes choices finally caught up to and cost then their lives.

Sad, but it happens.

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Y'all should try swimming sometime with an extra 100 pounds on your back.

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Holy shit..."they had gear on that guy could have pulled them under" is seriously the defense of this? they're fuckin cops. If you're not willing to save people then get a new god damn job.

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Meh, if he couldn't swim, the criminal shouldnt have gone in the water in the first place.

TheVipaGTS posted...

Holy shit..."they had gear on that guy could have pulled them under" is seriously the defense of this? they're fuckin cops. If you're not willing to save people then get a new god damn job.

No one is willing to kill themselves for a person in this situation.

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Were_Wyrm posted...

Even when I was a lifeguard we were trained to never jump in and save someone in the water.

Lol wut???

That sounds ass backwards. So youre telling that the lifeguard broke the rules when he saved my dumbass friend?

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Zikten posted...

yes I know that. I am saying that was unacceptable. he shouldn't have been there. he should not have been a cop

Okay. So how did you end up voting? Taking into account the totality of this specific situation, including the fact one of the cops didn't know how to swim, what should they have done? Should that single officer have jumped in a lake in the dark to attempt to save someone that may be potentially combative in the water? If something were to happen, there wouldn't be anyone to rescue the cop.

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TheVipaGTS posted...

Holy shit..."they had gear on that guy could have pulled them under" is seriously the defense of this? they're fuckin cops. If you're not willing to save people then get a new god damn job.

exactly. I always thought it was insane that cops try to get out of helping people, but after the past 2 weeks I am even more sure of that position. this is one of the things that needs to change about what we expect our police. if they can't save a life then they have no place being a cop. anyone who just watches someone die needs to be fired YESTERDAY

Billy__Beane posted...

Meh, if he couldn't swim, the criminal shouldnt have gone in the water in the first place.

Its the cops fault he doesnt know how to swim. Probably even made the pond to capture him.

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Houston posted...

Okay. So how did you end up voting? Taking into account the totality of this specific situation, including the fact one of the cops didn't know how to swim, what should they have done? Should that single officer have jumped in a lake in the dark to attempt to save someone that may be potentially combative in the water? If something were to happen, there wouldn't be anyone to rescue the cop.

I voted that they should have jumped in

again, the cop that doesn't know how to swim shouldn't have been there or existed as a cop. the single officer should have said to his partner "you fucking god damned idiot...." and then jumped in and done what he could on his own.

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

No one is willing to kill themselves for a person in this situation.

Then they can find new jobs. The argument you're making is "they had gear on"...what if the same cops with gear came across a random kid who just happened to be drowning? Would you be using the same excuse? That man's criminal history shouldn't affect how they do their job. Its not their job to decide who they help. Could you imagine if a doctor said "I don't want to help this guy, he was once stole something". "oh he's overdosing? I won't help him because he knew Drugs could do this, TOUGH LUCK!"...

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Zikten posted...

I voted that they should have jumped in

again, the cop that doesn't know how to swim shouldn't have been there or existed as a cop. the single officer should have said to his partner "you fucking god damned idiot...." and then jumped in and done what he could on his own.

Lmao

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TheVipaGTS posted...

Then they can find new jobs. The argument you're making is "they had gear on"...what if the same cops with gear came across a random kid who just happened to be drowning? Would you be using the same excuse? That man's criminal history shouldn't affect how they do their job. Its not their job to decide who they help. Could you imagine if a doctor said "I don't want to help this guy, he was once stole something".

careful now... he might ignore you!

TheVipaGTS posted...

Holy shit..."they had gear on that guy could have pulled them under" is seriously the defense of this? they're fuckin cops. If you're not willing to save people then get a new god damn job.

So they're supposed to throw their lives away?

TheVipaGTS posted...

Then they can find new jobs. The argument you're making is "they had gear on"...what if the same cops with gear came across a random kid who just happened to be drowning? Would you be using the same excuse? That man's criminal history shouldn't affect how they do their job. Its not their job to decide who they help. Could you imagine if a doctor said "I don't want to help this guy, he was once stole something". "oh he's overdosing? I won't help him because he knew Drugs could do this, TOUGH LUCK!"...

if you read the entire topic, you dont just magically save people drowning. They fight for dominate position because theyre dying. They can kill you.

Lifeguards are even taught this stuff. But you expect a cop to allow this guy to kill him because this guy won the biggest Darwin Award imaginable

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if I was a cop I would have taken the job expecting that my life is not as important as the public's. And I would risk my life every day in pursuit of that ideal

Lyrica posted...

So they're supposed to throw their lives away?

They chose to be cops. with that comes certain risks they should be willing to take. If they aren't willing they can choose other jobs. Again, allowing cops to pick and choose who they help is a bad precedent to set.

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Zikten posted...

I voted that they should have jumped in

again, the cop that doesn't know how to swim shouldn't have been there or existed as a cop. the single officer should have said to his partner "you fucking god damned idiot...." and then jumped in and done what he could on his own.

Whether he knows how to swim or not is irrelevant. You can be a perfect swimmer and still drown in this case.

Zikten posted...

if I was a cop I would have taken the job expecting that my life is not as important as the public's. And I would risk my life every day in pursuit of that ideal

Yeah. Ok bud.

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DiegoSanchez206 posted...

No one is willing to kill themselves for a person in this situation.

Ten fuckin feet.

I couldnt stand their and not do anything. But okay.

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How are there people on this Earth that can't swim

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yea really. it was pretty shallow water. the cop defenders in here are making it to be like they were in the deep ocean.

Guys stop responding to Zitken like he has a 3 digit IQ.

He doesn't get it, that's all there is to it. He's all swept up in the civil unrest his friends are posting on Facebook.

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DiegoSanchez206 posted...

Lifeguards are even taught this stuff. But you expect a cop to allow this guy to kill him because this guy won the biggest Darwin Award imaginable

You're assuming that. By that logic we should never rescue people who are drowning? Like i said, they chose to be cops. If they aren't willing to administer aid equally they can find a new job. If this is equal to them and they'd stand watch a 12 year old drown then they really shouldn't be cops. You'll defend this but i bet you the moment someone forgets an order of fries in your meal you flip out or get upset. Why do we expect more of retail workers than cops? We should be expecting way more of cops.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Ten fuckin feet.

Zikten posted...

yea really. it was pretty shallow water. the cop defenders in here are making it to be like they were in the deep ocean.

Y'all acting like 10 feet isn't deep enough to drown in. If your feet can't touch the bottom you can drown in it dudes. Imagine trying to swim while also dealing with at least 100 pounds of weight that are pulling against you or pushing you down.

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This argument feels like when people used to say "the cops should just shoot the gun out of their hand!"

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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

Finish what you meant to say. You left out what you initially implied about them. I wonder why?

Sure.

Swimming culture is one that has primarily developed in rural (due to ponds and natural water structures) and suburban (due to more readily available community pools) areas. In these areas it is expected that parents know how to swim and thus can help teach their children and, particularly in the suburban areas, there are more readily available classes to formally teach children to swim. This in turn leads to another generation of people who can swim and thus will teach their children to do so.

Urban areas, where space is more of a premium, have considerably less access to community pools and the pools that are available typically have higher fees for usage. As a result pools are both less available and more costly, making it harder for people growing up in urban areas to regularly swim, particularly people in the lower-classes. As such people growing up in urban areas are less likely to be competent swimmers than ones in suburban or rural areas. This has a generational impact as you have parents that can't swim well who aren't able to teach their children or don't consider swimming to even be all that important. Black people disproportionately live in urban areas and thus are disproportionately impacted by this. This is further compounded by the fact that until the 60's public pools were often segregated thus making learning to swim even more difficult for people of color. Which means that parents were less likely know how to swim, which in turn meant they weren't able to teach their kids, who could not teach their kids.

This in no way is to imply that black people cannot swim, but as a result of multiple historical and economic factors make it less likely when compared to your average white individual.

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TheVipaGTS posted...

They chose to be cops. with that comes certain risks they should be willing to take. If they aren't willing they can choose other jobs. Again, allowing cops to pick and choose who they help is a bad precedent to set.

Yes, their job comes with risks but that does not mean they should get themselves killed if a criminal puts themselves in danger fleeing the police. I remember a case where 3 hikers drowned. One fell in water and the other 2 jumped in the body of water to rescue the one that fell in. All died because the riptide was too strong. The criminal should not have fleed.

Nah all cops suck right? We don't need them right? Right call was made. This is what you get.

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Lyrica posted...

Yes, their job comes with risks but that does not mean they should get themselves killed if a criminal puts themselves in danger fleeing the police. I remember a case where 3 hikers drowned. One fell in water and the other 2 jumped in the body of water to rescue the one that fell in. All died because the riptide was too strong. The criminal should not have fleed.

He shouldn't have, but making excuses to allow cops to pick and choose who they help and for what reason is a bad idea.."Darwin Award LULZ!". So if I was drowning and someone who could save me and chose a profession where they agreed to do that (like a cop or a lifeguard) and their only reaction was "LOL DARWIN AWARD OH WELL shouldn't have went swimming" you'd be ok with that? who decides if the cop was right or wrong. Sounds like they can make up any excuse and say "I was scared" and it would be ok...I think we should hold cops to higher standards but if you're ok with that then whatever.

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Siding with the cops on this one. He fled and put himself in a perilous situation. Cops had no idea if he would try to drag them under, and people have died trying to save others from drowning by jumping in after them.

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btw the criminal COULD swim. he swam across most of the water, according to the article. it's unknown what suddenly happened to make him stop. either his foot got caught on something or maybe he suddenly got a heart attack or something. who knows. he was swimming expertly up til that happened

TheVipaGTS posted...

Holy shit..."they had gear on that guy could have pulled them under" is seriously the defense of this? they're fuckin cops. If you're not willing to save people then get a new god damn job.

Ever have to save a drowning swimmer? It's fucking hard. And I had the advantage of prior training, being in a pool during the day, and still almost died.

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Zikten posted...

btw the criminal COULD swim. he swam across most of the water, according to the article. it's unknown what suddenly happened to make him stop. either his foot got caught on something or maybe he suddenly got a heart attack or something. who knows. he was swimming expertly up til that happened

so the cops were letting him get away until he messed up?