Current Events > Minneapolis votes to disband police department

(+) Yeah! (+)

William_Rage posted...

County sheriff will take over ( )

That's pretty much what Camden did except Camden is a city of 75,000 while Minneapolis is a major city that needs a dedicated police force. BTW Camden is still a shithole who didn't fix anything, just removed hundreds of well paying jobs from its city. Crime technically doesn't happen if it's not reported. It has the 3rd highest homicide rate in the US.

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A lot of people are wondering what this would look like in practice. What happens is, the current cops leave their badges in hiding spots around the city, and if you find one you get to be a cop now.


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Godnorgosh posted...

Really, the only purpose of the analogy is to distinguish between reforming something and dissolving it and replacing it with something else. You seem to think that the latter is an example of reform, but it's not clear why that's the case.

The police are "a constituted body of persons empowered by a state, with the aim to enforce the law, to ensure the safety, health and possessions of citizens, and to prevent crime and civil disorder." They aren't a militia that is supposed to enforce laws but they basically can do whatever they want.

If it seems that's what police are, then there is a problem with those police forces, not with the idea of police in general. And to change those police forces to what police should be, you have to reform.

Even if you want to call that a matter of semantics, then say "disband and replace" instead of "disband". Because again, there are a lot of people who genuinely want to get rid of the police. They are far from the majority, but their presence is strong enough online for this to matter. Still not everyone is going to agree with you, but "disband and replace" is a reasonable position whereas just "disband" isn't.

BTW, I looked up Eugene, Austin, and Denver and they all have police departments so I don't know what that guy means.

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Burn it down and start over. I like it.

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CrimsonRage posted...

ok chief, what's your solution then

Without going into too much detail (I could probably find some articles if I wasn't busy at the moment) it basically boils down to training and culture. De-escalation training is one that I definitely support, even though I'm pretty sure many departments use this already, there should be more emphasis on making cops less like punishers/peace keepers and more like mediators. They should also have more community presence, have more public events and more school programs, particularly in inner city schools where a lot of kids grow up thinking cops are the boogieman. Doing this shows people that police are people too and it doesn't mean you're in trouble if you see one. Trust is a two way street and both sides need to work at it.

Yes they should totally do this. Get rid of ALL the cops and dont answer any emergency calls when people start committing murders and rapes. I mean, that's what people want right?

Annihilated posted...

Without going into too much detail (I could probably find some articles if I wasn't busy at the moment) it basically boils down to training and culture. De-escalation training is one that I definitely support, even though I'm pretty sure many departments use this already, there should be more emphasis on making cops less like punishers/peace keepers and more like mediators. They should also have more community presence, have more public events and more school programs, particularly in inner city schools where a lot of kids grow up thinking cops are the boogieman. Doing this shows people that police are people too and it doesn't mean you're in trouble if you see one. Trust is a two way street and both sides need to work at it.

People like you seem reasonable.

What is so wrong with hiring social workers to do work that social workers should be doing? Like interacting with the mentally ill and handling non-violent drug issues.

Why does it HAVE to be a police officer?

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Kolibri X posted...

That's pretty much what Camden did except Camden is a city of 75,000 while Minneapolis is a major city that needs a dedicated police force. BTW Camden is still a shithole who didn't fix anything, just removed hundreds of well paying jobs from its city. Crime technically doesn't happen if it's not reported. It has the 3rd highest homicide rate in the US.

I've been reading creepy trucker stories and came about one with Camden just yesterday.

Trucker arrives in the area at 3 AM and has to go down this desolate part to get to his destination.

Cop pulls him over and is like "dude, turn around and just leave"

Guy is on a schedule, so he needs to go through. Cop tells him that even they don't go down this road. Cop told dude if he really needs to go through there, then to just book it. No stopping for stop signs or red lights. Just 60 mph that shit.

The craziest thing was that the cop said that if anybody ran out in front of the truck, to just crush them and call the cop's personal number for clean up in the morning.

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Git rid of cops, then arm everyone, problem solved.

Turtlemayor333 posted...

People like you seem reasonable.

What is so wrong with hiring social workers to do work that social workers should be doing? Like interacting with the mentally ill and handling non-violent drug issues.

Why does it HAVE to be a police officer?

Interacting with the mentally ill is inherently dangerous. A social worker is not going to do that. Majority of police calls are dealing with the mentally ill

we just left late because a 15 year with mental illnesses was threatening to jump off a roof. It was a two hour standoff that culminated in climbing up walls, ladders we brought, and safely bringing the kid down

or my first call this morning, a mentally ill homeless walked into the hospital and just refused to leave. He ended up shoving me and fighting. It took three of us to restrain him, he was putting up the fight of his life. He ended up falling on top of me, I had him in a lock and hes just free swinging punches on my sides while
im holding his head so he cant move. My partners eventually were able to grab his arms and place him into custody

or how about at noon today with a 400 pound subject that had 3 different mental illness and hit his elderly mother. Do you know the fight it took to get him strapped to a gurney so he can go to the hospital on a psych hold?

This was just today. Both instances we spent over an hour talking to each person convincing them to just leave the hospital and to get in the ambulance

you guys live in a fantasy world. Youre just going to get social workers killed. Domestic disturbances calls are also just as dangerous. People will barely listen to us in the heat of the moment, you think theyll listen to social workers??

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21WIVES_CHILL posted...

Yes they should totally do this. Get rid of ALL the cops and dont answer any emergency calls when people start committing murders and rapes. I mean, that's what people want right?

Something tells me that spite might not be the way to win people over when they already don't like you.

Next you'll say we should close hospitals and shut down paramedics because all people do is bitch about how shitty American healthcare is. "Let's see how much they miss our shitty healthcare when everyone is dead!"

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all police departments should be disbanded.all they do is harass a certain race of people and attend klan rallies.

darkprince45 posted...

you guys live in a fantasy world.

The issue of living life on social media and the internet. It creates a poisonous and fallacious worldview

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imagine thinking that removing the police force from a country that absolutely sucks at governing itself will end well


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21WIVES_CHILL posted...

Yes they should totally do this. Get rid of ALL the cops and dont answer any emergency calls when people start committing murders and rapes. I mean, that's what people want right?

It depends because some folks don't understand the definitions of words like abolish and disband. Some thing to completely get rid of the police force while others (still calling for abolishing and disbanding) are asking for it to be recreated with a new structure and guidelines. Y'know, a reformation. Which is that people want? Depends on who you ask.

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Dathrowed1 posted...

The issue of living life on social media and the internet. It creates a poisonous and fallacious worldview

This is laughable. Scholars have been saying for years that police are overburdened with roles that should be going to others and increasing social programs. It's the police unions and departments that have been living in a bubble, reinforcing that it's "them against the world" and shutting any other voice out. They've been unwilling to listen to the studies or the community at large.

The post by darkprince says it all. He lists several failed interactions and then tries to use them as an argument for why improvements can't be made. It makes no sense.

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Turtlemayor333 posted...

This is laughable. Scholars have been saying for years that police are overburdened with roles that should be going to others and increasing social programs. It's the police unions and departments that have been living in a bubble, reinforcing that it's "them against the world" and shutting any other voice out. They've been unwilling to listen to the studies or the community at large.

The post by darkprince says it all. He lists several failed interactions and then tries to use them as an argument for why improvements can't be made. It makes no sense.

Who do you suggest those roles be taken over to?

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Good intentions and unintended consequences always seem to end things horrendously wrong.

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They are not failed wtf. The ultimate goal was achieved. The kid was taken to the hospital, and the other guy couldve gone to jail but instead was out on a psych hold to be evaluated.

it just goes to show how you dont have any life experience. If a homeless mental ill person enters a business in this case a hospital, and refuses to leave. After an hour of discussion and going in circles, you have to remove him from the property. You dont understand people its obvious. Youve never had multiple people try different approaches to a mentally ill person and it doesnt work. We found a lady in the desert just walking around singing bible phrases completely sunburnt and dehydrated. No matter what we did, or the emts she never stopped doing it. She didnt want to leave the desert, we had to force her in the ambulance

your stupid thoughts would end up getting so many social workers killed and other employees you decide to throw to the water

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William_Rage posted...

County sheriff will take over ( )

Sheriffs are elected.
Commissioners are appointed.

Think about that.

The Minneapolis Police Department is really bad though. They just killed a black guy who had a counterfeit $20 which jump-started worldwide protests. They've had numerous other killings that made national news. That's not a good track record.

People need to keep in mind that the status quo is unacceptable when criticizing changes.

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Disband and build from the ground up using an independent commission.
Demilitarize.
Require at least 4 years of training, a criminal justice degree that includes humanities and sociology, and a record showing no past violence.
Bi-yearly psych evaluations on all officers.
End quotas on tickets and arrests.
Each precinct should reflect the demographics of the communities they serve (More minorities and more women).
Body cameras are mandatory while on duty and on at all times, turning one off is immediate grounds for evidence tampering.
End undercover and plain-clothes officers. Award massive financial compensation to victims of police brutality.
Commissioners and chiefs are elected, not appointed.
Dismantle the private prison system and arrest all owners for cruel and unusual punishment.
Focus prisons on rehabilitation and readjustment to society.
End the war on drugs and decriminalize drug-related offences.

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They were the ones doing most of the crime anyway, so now they can rebuild the city, the neighborhoods and then create a more gorgeous justice force.

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I'm in NJ and this isn't exactly too crazy. Camden disbanded its police department and effectively started over from scratch, and crime dropped significantly. Growing up Camden was known as a rough area, but nowadays it's turned around considerably.

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Compton CA did something similar years ago, they simply just contracted the LA County Sheriffs to replace the hilariously corrupt and inept PD. I fully expect the Sheriffs to replace them or Minneapolis will form a County wide police force like what Camden NJ did after they disbanded the city PD.

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We gonna have a real life Arkham

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That city is doomed, I've said it so many times, abolishing instead of reforming the police is dangerous.
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CRON posted...

I'm in NJ and this isn't exactly too crazy. Camden disbanded its police department and effectively started over from scratch, and crime dropped significantly. Growing up Camden was known as a rough area, but nowadays it's turned around considerably.

Interesting. At least there is a model for them to follow... I didn't know anyone in the US had tried this.

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EdgeMaster posted...

Lmao a world without prisons or police. How could anyone be this fucking ignorant?

This country is fucked.

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CRON posted...

I'm in NJ and this isn't exactly too crazy. Camden disbanded its police department and effectively started over from scratch, and crime dropped significantly. Growing up Camden was known as a rough area, but nowadays it's turned around considerably.

Y-Your facts don't matter! M-My feelings must be correct.

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Speaking of the Sheriffs in Hennepin County, do they actually patrol the county or do they stick to running the jails/providing security for the courts, etc? If they stick to the more...administrative side of Law Enforcement, Minneapolis is probably going to rebuild from the ground up.

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CRON posted...

I'm in NJ and this isn't exactly too crazy. Camden disbanded its police department and effectively started over from scratch, and crime dropped significantly. Growing up Camden was known as a rough area, but nowadays it's turned around considerably.

Tearing down the prison and shipping their criminals out of state had a huge part to do with it too....

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SpudForce posted...

Compton CA did something similar years ago, they simply just contracted the LA County Sheriffs to replace the hilariously corrupt and inept PD. I fully expect the Sheriffs to replace them or Minneapolis will form a County wide police force like what Camden NJ did after they disbanded the city PD.

This article tells me Camden essentially did the opposite Of disbanding police, with a large increase in officers

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department


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RadiantAdolin posted...

Because they're capable of thinking.

TheVipaGTS posted...

they don't have the ability to think.

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s0nicfan posted...

Tearing down the prison and shipping their criminals out of state had a huge part to do with it too....

Why would that make a difference to crime stats? Isn't crime recorded as happening in the area the crime took place?

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Disbanding an entire department has happened before. In 2012, with crime rampant in Camden, N.J., the city disbanded its police department and replaced it with a new force that covered Camden County. Compton, Calif., took the same step in 2000, shifting its policing to Los Angeles County.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2020/06/07/
Minneapolis- Police- Department- to- be- dismantled- ending- City- Council- George-Floyd-police-brutality-reform-defund/
stories/202006070122

What this means is that policing would be handled by another law enforcement agency while the city creates a new police department. Once the new organizational infrastructure is in place, staff and officers would have to apply for their jobs under the new guidelines at a reduced salary.

This practice of disbanding is more common than most people think. Smaller cities have disbanded their police forces to reduce their budget while using the county sheriff's department. In some instances, deputies are required to ride in vehicles with the city's name while wearing the city's uniform. They might even be provided the old precinct building within the city to work from. Other times, the deputy would just incorporate the city as part of their patrol.

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shockthemonkey posted...

Can you post the article?

Sorry lol

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department

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Oatcakes posted...

Why would that make a difference to crime stats? Isn't crime recorded as happening in the area the crime took place?

With where the prison used to be, prisoners were released more or less right into the highest crime rate area of Camden. Now, prisoners are released somewhere else and it's on them to make their way back to Camden if they really want to. It's more about recidivism.

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BB mofo posted...

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2020/06/07/
Minneapolis- Police- Department- to- be- dismantled- ending- City- Council- George-Floyd-police-brutality-reform-defund/
stories/202006070122

What this means is that policing would be handled by another law enforcement agency while the city creates a new police department. Once the new organizational infrastructure is in place, staff and officers would have to apply for their jobs under the new guidelines at a reduced salary.

This practice of disbanding is more common than most people think. Smaller cities have disbanded their police forces to reduce their budget while using the county sheriff's department. In some instances, deputies are required to ride in vehicles with the city's name while wearing the city's uniform. They might even be provided the old precinct building within the city to work from. Other times, the deputy would just incorporate the city as part of their patrol.

so basically theyre making another department have increased workload and stress. Good idea.

So they plan to add a bunch of cameras to combat traffic offenses? I thought this entire board was against cameras like that. Anyone I ever met is. As far as I know, FD only responds to Od calls already, at least in my state.

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Why wouldn't prisoners be released into the area where they came from?

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darkprince45 posted...

staff and officers would have to apply for their jobs under the new guidelines at a reduced salary.

lowering police pay is not a way to get better police
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The use of "unarmed, community-oriented street teams" on weekend nights downtown "to focus on de-escalation."

. Why would anyone listen to these people. Can you imagine a group of the snitch patrol walking into gang territory telling them to keep it down. My god, theres going to be so much violence against these people

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darkprince45 posted...

The use of "unarmed, community-oriented street teams" on weekend nights downtown "to focus on de-escalation."

. Why would anyone listen to these people. Can you imagine a group of the snitch patrol walking into gang territory telling them to keep it down. My god, theres going to be so much violence against these people

yes, this is how police think

thanks for the lack of any actual meaningful contribution

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