Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic #5: The Generated By Meta

(+) Yeah! (+)

Almost won a game of battlegrounds to break the drought, but the eventual winner hit the super nuts. Golden Whelp, Bronze Warden, Bronze Warden, Drakonid Enforcer, Kalecgos, Nadina. I know that doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary when it comes to good dragon builds, but this guy was still on tavern tier 3. Unless I'm forgetting some other way to do this, he got some ridiculous Shifter luck.

On the bright side, I think I'm now high enough where even an 8th place finish in my next game won't send me into the 5,000s.

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Isn't Descent the outlier? I seem to remember these deals always being 55 or 50 packs, but I never buy packs with money so I could be remembering incorrectly.

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If Wizards was selling booster boxes with 30 packs in them most of the time, then one expansion sold boxes with 36 for the same price before going back to 30 again in future expansions, I can't say that would be something I'd have a hard time imagining.

To be fair, my experience with Magic is from a time where every single set seemed to have a different amount of not only packs in booster boxes, but number of cards in each pack as well.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

That's not the point. Could you imagine if Magic the Gathering started putting 30 packs in a box instead of 36 but charged the same price to retailers?

I can imagine them changing the number of cards in an individual pack, because they have done that (as a short term thing).

They also, massively fiddled with set sizes (total number of unique cards per set).

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Camden posted...

Unless I'm forgetting some other way to do this, he got some ridiculous Shifter luck.

A Kalecgos AND a Nadina is some tremendous patience. My guess is he got the Kalecgos first. Lots of rerolling for battlecries when your tavern's only 4 minions, and he just grabbed an additional shifter when the opportunity presented, sat on it hoping for Razorgore, and landed Nadina instead. Obviously everything else can be had on 3 stars.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Hearthstone cannot be skill-based with its current level of RNG nonsense.

Ctrl + f "cannot" - 1 result from comments, not relevant.

Ctrl + f "can't" - 1 result from comments, not relevant.

Ctrl + f "skill" 1 result from the original interview question posed to iksar. It says "less skill-rewarding." As opposed to "not at all skill rewarding".

Please read things before pretending like they say what you think they say. The main point of the article is that he believes hearthstone is as far into the 'created by' end of the spectrum as he believes it's going to get. And he thinks there are some tweaks in order to prevent the possible infinite generation of cards. Nothing mentioned says that hearthstone does not still require skill to play.

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Honestly the biggest issue with hearthstone isnt RNG (in fact its probably the only thing keeping it alive). Its the fact that it isnt accessible anymore and there is almost no reason to be creative.

Accessible: Power Creep has gotten so massive that you need the new sets to keep up. The only good classic Legendaries are Edwin and Alex. Competitively its pretty bad too. Moving to youtube makes it harder to get people to watch, and grandmasters is hard for new names to sprout up in the tournament scene.

creative: Why be creative when everyone net decks? Why try tech cards when you arent playing the op new cards? Why craft a cool legendary when its pricy and will rotate out? Occasionally cool decks show up after a few weeks but then everyone net decks it and it loses its coolness.

I think this is why bg is more successful now too. Its accessible from the start, cheaper to get into (2500 gold is nothing compared to a competitive deck in constructed) and theres more creativity involved.

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Not gonna disagree with that. I've often wondered how a new person breaks into Hearthstone. There's certainly room for creativity, but netdecking has become not so much a beast of Hearthstone itself as it is the community.

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Netdecking has nothing to do with Hearthstone, it's a feature embedded in every competitive game that allows some form of creativity.

People will always do whatever they perceive to be the best.

It's the reason people optimise characters in D&D, it's the way they build decks in every card game from Magic to pokmon to hearthstone and everything in between. To stay on pokmon, it's how they build competitive pokmon teams.

Competitive gamers, as much as they'd like to tell you otherwise, are for the most part, not interested in creativity. The players that are, are the ones playing silly "meme decks" in Silver.

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It is, I just think it's more prevalent in hearthstone because

-Stats are easier to access and utilize in hearthstone than in those games
-Meta's less diverse than in those CCGs (Well, magic at least.) because of deck size and the power level of certain cards.

I also feel like most of the top decks have been in the meta for a while now? Highlander decks, Tempo Warrior in some form, Galakrond decks. Maybe it's more stale than creative. Eh.

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Its literally what got people into this game in the first place

Yogg, Paveling Book, neat discovers, surprises etc. Like yeah it expanded a ton lately but with how people react to streamers, they wanted it. Like it hurts the tourney scene a little but I dont think its blizzards priority anymore.

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Yeah, randomness is a lot of fun. I love playing full RNG decks.

I'm probably closer to the target market casual user

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I got a 1st today, glad to finally get a win again. Had 40 health left in the final two with a Kalecgos/Nadina build, facing off against giant, shielded murlocs with plants. Guy beat me five or six rounds in a row before I finally got too big for him, and thankfully he never managed to get another Megasaur or I was toast.

Also, did they screw up when they added pirates into the pool with the other minion types? I legit can't remember the last time I had a lobby where pirates weren't the banned type.

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7-7-8-8 last two days. I had climbed to my highest rating before that, somewhere north of 7700.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

It is literally why people have quit by the millions and its the #1 thing cited when people call this game garbage.

I'm pretty sure that title goes to either Hong Kong or the overall price of the game.

I literally don't know anyone who's quit Hearthstone over RNG. Not a single person. Like...seriously can't think of a single friend who did.

I can think of about a dozen friends who quit after Blitzchung's suspension

And I know several others who quit over price/time investment. Like they didn't play for a few sets and then just felt their collections were way too far behind and they felt they couldn't be competitive anymore. Or they just hate doing dailies in games--don't do dailies in any of their other games either, and you're basically fucked as f2p if you don't do dailies in HS.

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metroid composite posted...

I literally don't know anyone who's quit Hearthstone over RNG. Not a single person. Like...seriously can't think of a single friend who did.

It's extra funny because Ulti quit after Hong Kong (not RNG) and then CAME BACK.

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Theres even some skill in rng, like picking the right discover card for the right situation and utilizing the random cards (Hint: play the cards in your deck first so the opponent doesnt play around the third one) and it makes the games more unique since they dont 100% play out the same way

Really I guess its more just a stale meta

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https://articles.hsreplay.net/2020/07/21/to-dig-or-not-to-dig/

pretty neat article, I usually dig turn 1 even though theres a couple times Ive gotten seventh or eighth when I dont get a token, but I play Eudora very greedy. (Maeiv I also play greedy). Really I think the guaranteed 6 star on turn 8 is just too big

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Buy Swabbie and sell was a mere afterthought to them. =/

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If RNG can't get somebody who complains about it daily to quit, then maybe it's not the main reason people quit :P

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Surprised no posts about the new cards revealed today.

Nothing too exciting but this card is auto include in every deck right?

https://imgur.com/rcUgDsr

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https://youtu.be/lKnWVZz0otI

how are their videos so good

I think this card is really good in Priest, others just dont have the cheap removal that Priest does though

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LiquidOshawott posted...

I think this card is really good in Priest, others just dont have the cheap removal that Priest does though

The silliest combo is Shadowflame I think. This revives the minion you killed and transfers the enemies entire board over to yours in best case scenario.

Also winning a brawl obviously but you can't count on that.

I think there's plenty of cheap removal to justify this card in like 95% of decks

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Well the shadow flame combo depends on if you have a minion on the board on your turn. Not to mention the anti-synergy with the better warlock board clears (Dark Skies, Plague of Flames)

Control Warrior might run it? Shield Slam and Execute seem good with it. Shaman if it ever resurges might run it. Mage could run it but their board clears are pretty heavy. Rogue has some neat tempo choices with backstab and evis but I dont think it will do much yet. Gotta wait til the other cards in the set are out

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After getting to 7700 in battlegrounds, I went on the biggest slide, getting bottom 2 for like 10 games straight. (I stopped counting, but I was down to 68xx.) Finally won a game today, coming in first, with some thicc murlocs thanks to Pyramad. Ground out the poor second place player over four rounds. I guess that makes up for one of my bazillion losses.

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The one Kibler revealed, The Priest/Warlock legendary that destroys minions you summon and turns them into 4/4s, seemed cool to me!

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How good they are aside, I like all three of the Priestlock cards that were revealed today. I hope the final card for that pair also uses the health changed gimmick as well.

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skullbone posted...

Surprised no posts about the new cards revealed today.

Nothing too exciting but this card is auto include in every deck right?

Definitely not auto-include in every deck.

Spellburst is alreadly an iffy trigger on a lot of cards. An even more restricted spellburst that requires the spell to actually kill something is super restricted.

During deck construction, you need a lot of spells to include a spellburst card.

To include Kel'thuzad you need not just a lot of spells but specifically removal spells. And note that the spells need to remove a minion directlly. In Demon Hunter, for example, you have a lot of spells that kill something indirectly like Twin Slice, but those spells don't count for Kel'Thuzad since the spell itself doesn't do the killing. Similarly for stuff like Hex and Polymorph. Cool removal spell, but nothing technically died sooooo....

Honestly, Kel'Thuzad looks like Archivist Elysiana to me. You need to be a control deck in a value matchup with another control deck, and then the sick value you can get on turn 10 will matter.

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The new Demon Hunter card is totally fair.

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Are we talking glide

Because that card looks silly

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Yeah, this card essentially says Outcast: You Win when played against me.

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Honestly I wish there was more cards that fucked with opponents hands

Not that Glide is remotely balanced

Wow, Glide. Lol. Draw 4 for 4, and oh yeah, wreck the hand of any control player while you're at it. The way to beat a demon hunter is obviously to play another aggro deck. Although now they can have their minions attack yours while immune, too.

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Okay, but.

That flavour text.

Is amazing.

"Come with me, and you'll see, a whole new hand of possibly the same cards."

Mostly because they actually nailed the flow.

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