Current Events > Why people hate that gillete ad about toxic masculanity?

(+) Yeah! (+)

cjsdowg posted...

So are negative things found in woman toxic femininity

I would think you've been in enough of these topics (in fact I know you have) that you've already asked and been given the answer to this question.

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CyricZ posted...

So are negative things found in woman toxic femininity

The world isn't progressive enough to talk about this yet.

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Pepys Monster posted...

The world isn't progressive enough to talk about this yet.

Please quote the correct person.

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cjsdowg posted...

So are negative things found in woman toxic femininity

What toxic things in your mind would fall under the category of "girls being girls"?

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The first thing that comes to mind is women who feel so entitled to sex that any man who doesn't want to sleep with them must be gay

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hey remember that britney spears song toxic

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Anteaterking posted...

What toxic things in your mind would fall under the category of "girls being girls"?

This guy has never had a girlfriend.

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eston posted...

The first thing that comes to mind is women who feel so entitled to sex that any man who doesn't want to sleep with them must be gay

That's such a bizarre first thing for your mind to go to. Do you think society pressures women to think that any man who doesn't want to have sex with them is gay? Does doing that make someone considered "more feminine"?

Kolibri X posted...

This guy has never had a girlfriend.

I have, but their stereotypical female flaws were all things that people considered to be bad, as opposed to things that they had to do to fit gender norms.

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Kolibri X posted...

This guy has never had a girlfriend.

I'm sure his Anteaterqueen is out there somewhere.

Why is it news to anyone that different people have different unique behaviors?

kids go like NYAH NYAH! And pull on your hair or whatever.
Men catcall, talk about having a man card that can get taken away for stuff like wearing a pink shirt or or whatever, or they sexually harass or bully others physically.
Old people go full get off my lawn! and acts as if theyre untouchable just because theyre old.

turns out women like to gossip about other women, manipulate others emotionally and they can be very judgmental based on things such as appearance (beauty) and social standing... basically Mean Girls is toxic feminity: the movie.

each group has its own shitty things, and we could talk about toxic senility, toxic infantility, toxic femininity (inb4 the white knights attack me for mentioning this last one), even toxic spirituality.

somehow only masculinity got the toxic moniker, which is odd. There is toxic masculinity, absolutely, but its far from the only toxic human attribute out there.

toxic femininity is WORSE than anything women complain about in males......but of course being women,they dont see their issues.

people get irrationally upset whenever they're told anything, even if that anything is a perfectly valid and healthy message
people also love to seemingly-intentionally misconstrue "toxic masculinity" as an attack on men in their entirety

you also get a lot of "b-b-but what about x!" whenever this subject comes up, too

CyricZ posted...

I would think you've been in enough of these topics (in fact I know you have) that you've already asked and been given the answer to this question.

The excuses change each time. Unless a person is willing to use negative female stereotypes to be given a label of toxic femininity don't do it to men.

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cjsdowg posted...

Unless a person is willing to use negative female stereotypes to be given a label of toxic femininity don't do it to men.

CyricZ posted...

Tonight on "Not How Equality Works".

We cover the long-visited topic of "microscoping a macro issue".

But seriously if we really want to do this all over again: if we define "toxic masculinity" as "beliefs and actions that are believed inherent to being a man in society that are ultimately harmful and destructive", then "toxic femininity" would be "beliefs and actions that are believed inherent to being a woman in society that are ultimately harmful and destructive".

In example: things in the past such as "women should be submissive to their husbands" or "women should take care of the home while their husband works" or "women should be mothers".

The thing is that over the last century or so, women have been doing their darnedest to get away from those expectations. You can make a case of "new" behaviors if you want, but could you really say, with the amount of change that has gone through being a woman in the last century, that anything in particular is believed "inherent to being a woman"?

Meanwhile, men have done... what exactly in the last century to topple their expected behaviors? Maybe some progress in the last twenty years in pockets of the country?

Then again, why would they? Men are powerful and in control. Why would they want to give up those behaviors and risk losing that power and control?

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"But what about X" is completely valid criticism when one side is unnecessarily skewed to push an agenda. The issue is the people defending it and the people against it are arguing from completely different standpoints usually, so it's rare to have an even leveled discussion on the topic.

Raikuro posted...

I liked the message that if a straight dude wants to talk to a chick you're free to go feel up his chest and abs

Lol

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Anteaterking posted...

That's such a bizarre first thing for your mind to go to. Do you think society pressures women to think that any man who doesn't want to have sex with them is gay? Does doing that make someone considered "more feminine"?

It's an alarmingly common mindset

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Insecurity

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Superlinkbro posted...

It's really not a good idea to insult/"criticize" the main target market that are supposed to buy your products.

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eston posted...

I thought it was weird when they implied that simply approaching a woman in public is toxic, and that it is acceptable for some random dude to put his hands on you to prevent it from happening

Well obviously you're just insecure! I mean, the message is always above criticism, regardless of how it's delivered, didn't you know that??

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https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/macho-old-men-bad-health-social-life

If youre a man who likes to act manly," theres a chance you may suffer from health- and social-related issues later in life. Or at least thats what a new study from Michigan State University is suggesting.

Our study shows how toxic masculinity also has detrimental consequences for the men who subscribe to these ideals, said the universitys assistant professor and sociologist Stef Shuster in MSU Today. Older men who endorse the ideals of toxic masculinity can become siloed off as they age. Not all older men are at risk just those who favor a particular set of ideals.

Toxic masculinity is defined as a cultural expectation that standardizes aggressive male behavior in a way thats harmful to women, society and men themselves, according to Dictionary.com. The online resource cites statements like be a man and only girls cry as examples of toxic masculinity.

The concept is likely to harm older men because data shows that social isolation increases with age.

The very premise of hegemonic masculinity in some ways is based on the idea of isolation because its about being autonomous and not showing a lot of emotion. Its hard to develop friendships living this way, Shuster added. Having people with whom we can talk about personal matters is a form of social support. If people only have one person that they can share information with, or sometimes even no people, they dont really have an opportunity to reflect and share.

Men who were described to be toxic from their traditionally masculine ideals were said to be in poor health, lonely and financially challenged as a result of their isolationist tendencies, according to the study.

CalypsoDoom posted...

Example and how its worse?

there was a sorority that would make pledges sit on a washing machine and turn it on. If the pledges body jiggled too much the pledge would be rejected AND hazed.

another example: body image issues, which ultimately end in anorexia and bulimia. Women try to blame men for these but men are horndogs and theyre disgusting, men will have sex with anything with boobs really, this is not because of men.

another example: the behavior in the movie Mean Girls is all too real.

edit - is it worse? Maybe not. Not sure. All toxicity sucks, and men do have very toxic behaviors

CyricZ posted...

Dude hurting in real time over here.

The fuck is wrong with you? Why are you so spiteful and hateful?

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dave_is_slick posted...

The fuck is wrong with you? Why are you so spiteful and hateful?

Don't be so toxic bro.

The large amount of text he opened with and the acid he posted with said to me that he was in fact hurting, like with real pent up anger over the concept. He and I had words about this before on this subject. What would you say I did was spiteful/hateful?

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Until these companies release a female centric product commercial with the same "don't be a dick" message, no one will buy into their inequality agenda.

You never see a commercial that tells women that they are not good enough and they should strive to be better. It's always about how they are already good enough, they deserve it, they deserve everything just for existing. Men never got commercials like that.

hitokoriX posted...

It was a miscalculated move from a company that attempted to coop feminist talking points. Having a conversation about masculinity is one thing -- but that commercial wasn't the way to go about it.

You're mostly right, but I disagree that it was miscalculated. Their main goal wasn't to have a dialogue, it was to spark controversy so that the their brand name stays in the public conciseness in order to drive up sales. In that sense it worked just as planned.

It's 'woke capitalism'. It doesn't aim to meaningfully address any of the systematic inequalities in the world, they merely attempt to drive up profits by trying to brand themselves as "one of the good mega corporations".

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dave_is_slick posted...

The fuck is wrong with you? Why are you so spiteful and hateful?

You must be new here. Thats how he always is.

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"Men, you fucking suck! Do better! Buy razors!"

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Wetterdew posted...

to many people, the idea that you should be respectful to others is controversial. It also feels weird coming from a for-profit corporation

this
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Summer_Ashigara posted...

You're mostly right, but I disagree that it was miscalculated. Their main goal wasn't to have a dialogue, it was to spark controversy so that the their brand name stays in the public conciseness in order to drive up sales. In that sense it worked just as planned.

It's 'woke capitalism'. It doesn't aim to meaningfully address any of the systematic inequalities in the world, they merely attempt to drive up profits by trying to brand themselves as "one of the good mega corporations".

This. They got the attention they wanted. The people trying to criticize them, or have a so-called dialogue about it, have them precisely what they hoped for. Whether or not this translates into profit is a different matter, but there's a better chance of this resulting in a profit then making a superior product would have.

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It's not just Gillette, but I hate any preachy and/or sappy ads from major corporations. I don't need some corporation that probably under pays and over works its employees telling me that I need to be a better person, and that all starts with buying their razors. They don't care what men do, they probably just want that stupid shit to go viral, which it did, and hashtagged to all the losers on Twitter.

Probably because they sell razors to all guys and that ad had politicized vibes to it. At least from a sales perspective - no good. Your ad shouldnt alienate potential buyers.

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Would this be a acceptable ad?

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

Assuming if it was a Gilettte commercial?

Omega Hunter posted...

You must be new here. Thats how he always is.

It wasn't though, he didn't used to be like this years ago.

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PowerOats posted...

Would this be a acceptable ad?

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

Assuming if it was a Gilettte commercial?

It's better than the Gilette ad, but it has the same core issue in that it's still just virtue signalling for social capital. What is Egard Watches doing to combat things like male disposability? How does buying a watch counter male suicidality? Just showing statistics on a screen doesn't really combat the material conditions specific to men that lead them feeling alienated and depressed.

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Also when guys talk about their feelings, the same people who complain about "toxic masculanity" are the first people to mock them and talk about and say "oh I am drinking man tears"

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cjsdowg posted...

Also when guys talk about their feelings, the same people who complain about "toxic masculanity" are the first people to mock them and talk about and say "oh I am drinking man tears"

Or they'll say some shit about fragility or man babies. They talk all this shit, but then they have a list of shit that's really acceptable for men to complain about, and if you complain about shit not on that list it's a knock against you because you're a man complaining about it.

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Because it was a stupid commercial. Its like that Pelotin bike ad. Just because the message is well-intentioned doesnt mean it cant be weird, overly pandering, and/or condescending.

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Because it basically was like "All males, it's time to look in the mirror and feel bad" and the 99.9999% of us who aren't assholes are like "wtf, I didn't do anything"

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CalypsoDoom posted...

nope

Saying nope doesn't make something untrue .

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I liked the ad personally. It was calling out the shitty behavior that is glorified by society.

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cjsdowg posted...

Also when guys talk about their feelings, the same people who complain about "toxic masculanity" are the first people to mock them and talk about and say "oh I am drinking man tears"

How dare you try to repress other people's feelings on how dumb your feelings on the new She Ra are.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

How dare you try to repress other people's feelings on how dumb your feelings on the new She Ra are.

Males have been mocked for speaking about domestic violence, homelessness, and Suicide.

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cjsdowg posted...

Males have been mocked for speaking about domestic violence, homelessness, and Suicide.

I know, toxic masculinity is pretty awful.

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Ultima Dragon posted...

"Hey, we know that you're our target consumer, but we personally feel that you are a horrendous piece of shit and need to change your ways. Please still buy our stuff tho."

They also had to bring race into it, which was silly. Why do only black men know how to not sexually abuse women? They couldn't have reversed the roles because then it's suddenly racist and problematic. It just didn't need to be shot that way.

Overall, the whole thing came across in a very #yesallmen way when I believe that it's only a small amount of men that really have a problem. Younger generations in particular are more aware of how to properly behave.

The originally had a clip in there of black rappers objectifying women. But they cut that part out last minute. You can still see it online with that clip in it.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

I know, toxic masculinity is pretty awful.

So when Femsinist make fun of men it called Toxic Masculinity?

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cjsdowg posted...

So when Femsinist make fun of men it called Toxic Masculinity?

Yep. That's what the words mean.

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cjsdowg posted...

Also when guys talk about their feelings, the same people who complain about "toxic masculanity" are the first people to mock them and talk about and say "oh I am drinking man tears"

This is such a good point. You can't shit on people for trying to be tough and then mock them when they are honest and vulnerable.

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