Current Events > Do you believe in the "they" gender pronoun

(+) Yeah! (+)

Would you say "they are" for a singular person, when using this?

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Drumpf posted...

Would you say "they are" for a singular person, when using this?

They is plural though

pepper2012 posted...

They is plural though

It's used as singular, they/them in people who are gender non-binary

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it's unavoidable in some cases and english speakers don't know how fucking good they have it

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TroutPaste posted...

It's used as singular, they/them in people who are gender non-binary

Serious question then if they do not wish to have any gender defining terms like he or she, wouldnt they want to use it or something ? They seems confusing because then you're grouping a singular person

pepper2012 posted...

They is plural though

The singular they has existed for a very long time, before anyone was talking about gender issues

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It's the best option compared to "it" being dehumanizing and nonsense like "xir."

Do I "believe" in it? Yes, it exists.

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Yes, I use "they" for gender-neutral or unknown gender singular people, TS if you have a problem with it

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They/them has always been used to also refer to a singular person.

If someone wants me to refer to them as that I have no problems with that.

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pepper2012 posted...

wouldnt they want to use it or something ?

Calling someone an "it" makes it sound like you're equating them to an inanimate object. It's -- what's the word -- dehumanizing?

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pepper2012 posted...

Serious question then if they do not wish to have any gender defining terms like he or she, wouldnt they want to use it or something ? They seems confusing because then you're grouping a singular person

if you want to object to the singular they, you should probably at least make an effort to not use the singular they when doing so

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I've been using They since highschool where my English teachers would usually mark it wrong.

So yes, yes I do.

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*flips coin*

Why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsb7rho72QM
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the singular they is older than modern english. it predates shakespeare by at least a couple hundred years

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I don't know if "believe in" is the right word to use here. I certainly use they as singular in grammatical ways and these sources all say it's correct to do so.

Merriam Webster Dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they
Oxford English Dictionary: https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/
APA style: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/grammar/singular-they
Dictionary.com: https://www.dictionary.com/e/they-is-a-singular-pronoun/

If anyone can show me institutions saying otherwise, that are deemed more reliable for grammar and linguistics compared to Merriam Webster, Oxford, APA, and Dictionary.com combined, I might reconsider.

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M_Live posted...

I dont think its something you can choose to believe in when that's literally how some people identify. It's real. That's like saying you don't believe that Honda Civics exist. It just makes you look like a dumbass.

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I think if someone feels more comfortable being called "they" because they don't believe in a binary gender system, it's not my right to insult them by refusing to respect that.

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For you academic nerds who don't care about APA:

Chicago style: http://cmosshoptalk.com/2017/04/03/chicago-style-for-the-singular-they/
National Council of Teachers of English: https://ncte.org/statement/genderfairuseoflang/
American Dialect Society: https://www.americandialect.org/2015-word-of-the-year-is-singular-they

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i find it a bit awkward, and would have preferred a switch to 'he' or 'E' for everyone instead, but it's really not up to me how language evolves.

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As a gay man it may surprise some to learn I take some issue with this. On one hand I hold the sentiment that we are all universal, multidimensional beings who arent meant to be reduced to labels and confined in boxes. From a philosophical standpoint this make sense to me. But with that said, from a practical standpoint, by asserting that you are sometimes a he, sometimes a she, or neither, or both, and identifying yourself with the pronoun they and demanding others do the same, still suggests an air of ego. Obviously its OK to be different, but must we constantly scream to the world, Look at me and how different I am? Like I said earlier, Im gay, but frankly without some of what we think of as heteronormative guidelines or societal boundaries in place things can get pretty confusing, if not outright ridiculous once you start thinking you're special.

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I only use it for an individual of an unknown sex/gender and that's about the extent of it.

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PsychicHippo posted...

As a gay man it may surprise some to learn I take some issue with this. On one hand I hold the sentiment that we are all universal, multidimensional beings who arent meant to be reduced to labels and confined in boxes. From a philosophical standpoint this make sense to me. But with that said, from a practical standpoint, by asserting that you are sometimes a he, sometimes a she, or neither, or both, and identifying yourself with the pronoun they and demanding others do the same, still suggests an air of ego. Obviously its OK to be different, but must we constantly scream to the world, Look at me and how different I am? Like I said earlier, Im gay, but frankly without some of what we think of as heteronormative guidelines or societal boundaries in place things can get pretty confusing, if not outright ridiculous once you start thinking you're special.

lol what

They don't think they're special they just don't want to be called he/she. Not everyone is comfortable with gender labels. Also so it's okay for you to be gay, but someone else can't be non binary?

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This is a red flag and I won't talk to anyone that insists on this.

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Yes, its a basic component of the English language.

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They? I'll just say them. Those people, them people. Or if I know the name I'll say the name. I don't do formal conversations where I must address the person by a title or pronoun

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If I dont know your gender you are an " 'em ".

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I refer to almost everyone as they.

This was well before all the recent pronoun discussions.

pepper2012 posted...

They is plural though

It can be plural or singular depending on context.

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It's not a belief, it's a fact. Singular 'they' is a thing. I can guarantee you've used it before without thinking about it. Oh but suddenly it's a huge deal if that's somebody's preferred pronoun.
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PsychicHippo posted...

Yes, because gay is a thing.

So is being non binary

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PsychicHippo posted...

Yes, because gay is a thing.

Who are you to say that being gay is a thing, but being non binary isn't? What if I say that you're just lying for attention? No one's actually gay, it's a bunch of people who were abused as children.

You don't get to decide how people should identify. I would've thought you'd have more empathy as someone in the LGBTQ+ community


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Of course!

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pepper2012 posted...

... wouldnt they want to use it or something ?

"It" reduces a person to an object. Would you want to be referred to and thought of in that way?
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mech dragon posted...

I certainly use they as singular in grammatical ways and these sources all say it's correct to do so.

I've used it for years to refer to people according to their position, not gender, in strictly professional conversations.
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mech dragon posted...

For you academic nerds who don't care about APA:

Also, I checked the MLA guidelines; it's legitimate (https://style.mla.org/using-singular-they/).

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I dont really talk to anyone who insists on it. No real opinion but Id also probably steer clear since I can see some issues arising

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Other languages get by find without gendered pronouns, we already use the singular "they" when gender is indeterminate, I don't see why some people freak out so much over such a common word. It's been here for centuries and it's here to stay.

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If I'm uncertain of a gender, I almost always use "they/them"

online at least.

I don't come across too many people irl that would demand a pronoun than what they were born with, given my profession.

Even so, if that's what you want, I'll heed your wishes.

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I forget that CE isn't as progressive as me.

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Yeah sure, why not?
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I believe it exists as in people use it. but I also think it's stupid as fuck and would not comply with fragile snowflakes expecting me to use on his/her behalf.

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Why not just address them by their name? I can imagine some scenarios where they/them could be confusing if you're trying to tell a story that involves multiple people.

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If they want me to, who am I to be unnecessarily malicious by refusing to change something so simple?

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It's the literal correct thing to do.

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About as much as believe in the "they" personality disorder

Your only one fucking person, figure it out

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Yes, it's grammatically correct, shows respect, and not a hill worth dying on.

dib153 posted...

Your only one fucking person, figure it out

Quoted for grammatical context

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No I don't, and if somebody is that adement about something as trivial as pronouns then I call them by name.

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