Poll of the Day > Do you think employers will realize most employees don't do that much work and

(+) Yeah! (+)

downsize? Or there's less social drama and more remote work so they may pick more skill-based people instead of social-based people?

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

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Hopefully they'll realise how little managers manage.
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Doubtful, could lead to discrimination claims.

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Yellow posted...

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

I agree with that. The ones making less tend to work harder, get no breaks, and have no influence.

Maybe this applies to office workers, but for those of us working blue collar jobs, if we're not producing we probably won't have a job for long. I've been off sick all this week and I can guarantee that when I do get back to work, I'm going to have a fuckload of shit to do

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Hopefully they'll realise how little managers manage.

This. I'm still working but with a 75% reduction in staff. They're worried about paying employees with business down, but they can afford to pay 2 managers to supervise 3 employees. It's pretty ridiculous.

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I wonder if we could set up some sort of a basic income that would be universal and help people transition to other types of jobs now that automation is becoming so efficient

someone should run for President on that

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Most employers already know that most employees don't do that much work, although company cultures inevitably lead to organizations scaling up and, as they grow, responsibilities disperse and people do less work. Granted, you also have business itself slowing down so regardless there's less to go around

At any rate, just try to make yourself essential and, once you have an essential task, obfuscate how it's done so it looks like it'd be hard to replace you.

Yellow posted...

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

Generally not; or, at least, not much of the time.


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Yellow posted...

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

Yeah its funny... the harder you work typically the less you make. Its the knowledge-side of things that pays off in the end. Kind of why I like driving. Depending on who you work for and how youre paid you can make anywhere from $19/hr up to $15,000/m or more. Theres nothing to it and it pays well.

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WhiskeyDisc posted...

This. I'm still working but with a 75% reduction in staff. They're worried about paying employees with business down, but they can afford to pay 2 managers to supervise 3 employees. It's pretty ridiculous.

Lmao

There's a book called Bullshit Jobs By David Graeber that has some fascinating insights on just how many jobs provide zero value. Box ticking/make work, etc.

I would imagine that after this whole CV thing clears up he would have a strongly worded addendum or follow up work in the pipeline.

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every job i had growing up the harder you worked the less money you made
it got to levels of comedy
I'd bust my ass off and by the end of the day week would make less than min wage
or you jus bust your ass off for some asshole millionaire

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Zeus posted...

Generally not; or, at least, not much of the time.

You've never worked in retail.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Hopefully they'll realise how little managers manage.

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Mead posted...

someone should run for President on that

I wonder if somebody tried that and lost already.

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WhiskeyDisc posted...

There's a book called Bullshit Jobs By David Graeber that has some fascinating insights on just how many jobs provide zero value. Box ticking/make work, etc.

I would imagine that after this whole CV thing clears up he would have a strongly worded addendum or follow up work in the pipeline.

I have that checked out from the digital library right now. Havent started to read it yet.

Im reading Early Retirement Extreme right now. Its basically a systems engineering approach to jobs/life and a lot of good insights are in there I havent read elsewhere yet. Ive read it halfway so far, not the typical finance/retirement book and so far it has had very little to do with retirement or finance, but relationships with money/jobs.

Oh, this is the summary I read of Bullshit Jobs before renting it. To anyone interested. https://medium.com/the-straight-dope/david-graebers-bullshit-jobs-53f669456fd3

zebatov posted...

Yeah its funny... the harder you work typically the less you make.

RoboXgp89 posted...

every job i had growing up the harder you worked the less money you made
it got to levels of comedy
I'd bust my ass off and by the end of the day week would make less than min wage
or you jus bust your ass off for some asshole millionaire

That's glaringly untrue.

Yellow posted...

You've never worked in retail.

I have, which is why I can say it with authority. In fact, most people in retail have no fucking clue what hard work actually is. And while most retail workers imagine themselves to be a Dante Hicks, but in reality they're usually more of a Randall. Back when I worked retail, I had co-workers bitch about working 6-hour shifts, talk about how they worked hard (when they remained at their register reading magazines, etc, between customers instead of actually doing work), and half of them showed up under some influence at least once a week.

Retail sales is a bit different, since you'll wind up working a lot of hours but even then it's not particularly hard work. Of course, if you're good at your job and if you put in the hours, you can make a lot of money. If you can't get out of retail, I'd suggest trying your hand at that... but just keep in mind that you're trading 6-8 hour shifts for 10-13+ hour shifts and you'll probably wind up working 7 days a week during the busier seasons.


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Yellow posted...

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

tell that to about 30% of the people on my shift... on other shifts (that are factually easier) it can go up to 60/70%
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blu posted...

downsize? Or there's less social drama and more remote work so they may pick more skill-based people instead of social-based people?

While this is nothing compared to the Black Plague, after that was when advances of technology were created or sought out to replace a workforce that was downsized because they were dead.

it is superhighly likely employers will now do a similar shift due to the economic costs.

in Short plague tends to make industry re think and improve. Even if its not as lethal as the bubonic plague the effect onbusinesses is the same. So the reaction will be the same.

businesses slow to automize will now do so at a quicker rate. Why hire workers that will cause disease spread when you can buy a machine?

this isnt true for all industries.

But non non skilled labor is gonna take a huge hit

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every min wage job i've had was hard
every non-min wage job i've had gave me work that was substantially easier
I used to leave work not feeling tired at all
now I don't even go to work
that's the win win

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Hopefully they'll realise how little managers manage.

This.

Ideally what I'd like to see is more places increasing their number of 'low-end' people and rewarding them with better raises while cutting a bunch of the terrible managers. I have a theory that, if companies just bothered to give their employees the proper permissions and training, they could get by with only one shift lead if even that. But instead they'd rather hire multiple managers to do peon work then get baffled as to why their basic employees seem so ineffective because they need to call over a manager constantly because of some permission thing or a task that they could easily do if they ever got the time/permission to train for it. Most employees will know just what needs to be done and who should do it and can self-manage and the ones who are problems likely won't reform if a manager is around because they're, well, problematic a-holes who don't care.

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My last job me and the people that I worked with were paid around minimum wage and almost worked to death until they laid us off (drove cars to sell to dealerships, moved cars from branch to branch, collected cars that were being sold, etc.). We were told on numerous occasions that it was more expensive to hire an outside contractor to do our jobs than keeping the work 'in the house', but after this, I'm not so sure anymore that our company will see it the same way.

zebatov posted...

Yeah its funny... the harder you work typically the less you make. Its the knowledge-side of things that pays off in the end. Kind of why I like driving. Depending on who you work for and how youre paid you can make anywhere from $19/hr up to $15,000/m or more. Theres nothing to it and it pays well.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head dude. Lets say for example, you do make 15,000 a year. Or average is about near 20,000. Anyways, might I digress here. You basically dont mean shit to the company. Right at the bottom of the totem poll and just a name and number on a piece of paper to cross a line through since there will always be someone to replace you in the harsh reality of things. Its the manager that mostly has to deal with this shit all the time and then later passes it off to the supervisor to deal with. Ive lost count how many times Ive seen this shit happen.
Anyways... you are right though. Its not about how hard you work, but how smart someone can work it. Never, ever fucking stoop so low to break your fucking back and then later get nailed over nepotism. And it sure as hell happens more then you think or god knows what connections they have and made. The brown nose's are the fucking worse too. Basically, yeah. But its hard to think how the fuck anyone can work smart in such a low pay job. But if you can find a way without bending over backwards in the right location, then it would be easy as hell.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Hopefully they'll realise how little managers manage.

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RoboXgp89 posted...

every min wage job i've had was hard
every non-min wage job i've had gave me work that was substantially easier
I used to leave work not feeling tired at all
now I don't even go to work
that's the win win

I also wanted to chime in and say so true as well man. I mean, fuck.. I remember when I was working minimum wage, lets just say for example.. $9 an hour. And then after you pass that probation period when you are fully hired in, guess what always seems to happen? Yup. You're right. They always somehow mange to fuck you by giving you more work. But why is that such a bad thing? Well, more responsibilities and more tasks does not equal to the amount of pay. The worst for me was like it always seemed I was rushing to the ends of the Earth to get all the shit done. So, what do I do? Simple, like as I said before. Always work smart and so I realized that there is no need for me to rush through all this shit and that I should just take my time and so I did. Boy, did that piss a few workers off. You can talk about "teamwork" but it hardly exists there when you multitask and you are the one feeling like you are pulling more weight when you shouldn't.

Ive got more stories but I dont want to write a book report here. But I get it. Ive definitely been there.

money is so worthless now as liquid cash
if i could work hard six hours a day and go home i would

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Ive gotten more work done by being remote. Largely because there is less bull shit, namely non-stop pointless meetings. We need to have a meeting about this, we need to have a meeting about that, we need to update each other on what were doing.

What am I doing? Im trying to do my job, but your stupid meetings get in the way, and I dont care what youre doing.

A major project that I would normally not be able to complete until mid or late summer Ill be done with next week. That will free up so much time to actually be able to try NEW projects.

When we go back, my co-workers (especially managers) are going to hate me, because Im not going to put up with the 1/10th of their bullshit.

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No and I doubt that you would understand how work is done in an office TC.

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Judgmenl posted...

No and I doubt that you would understand how work is done in an office TC.

Why so mean Judgmenl. I mean I'm in an office.

Though clinic office work dealing with day-to-day patients is very different than a project-based business office I'm sure.

Yellow posted...

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

Yeah. But I'm stunned at how little work office workers do

People who make $100k/yr generally work their asses off to.
But once again, so many stereotypes.
Some weeks I've worked like 70hrs.

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Not sure what kinds of jobs you've done, @blu , but mine have been of two kinds, either constant scrambling to try to keep up, or constant monitoring and troubleshooting to keep things going. Either way, high stress and indispensable to the operation.

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zebatov posted...

Yeah its funny... the harder you work typically the less you make.

I don't necessary see it as the harder you work the less you get paid but more so of how replaceable one is. Some jobs/positions might be easy but it is difficult to find a replacement so there is higher pay as an incentive. Other jobs/positions might be more difficult but it is easier to find a replacement so there is less incentive to pay people well.

Of course this does not apply to all types of jobs/positions but is generally how/why I see certain jobs/positions paying X amount versus other jobs/positions paying Y amount despite similar workload.

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Conner4REAL posted...

While this is nothing compared to the Black Plague, after that was when advances of technology were created or sought out to replace a workforce that was downsized because they were dead.

The Black Plague was 1300s, automation began in the 1700s although it really took off long afterward. Do you honestly believe that they spent 400 years thinking about replacing a workforce that had by then recovered?

Unbridled9 posted...

This.

Ideally what I'd like to see is more places increasing their number of 'low-end' people and rewarding them with better raises while cutting a bunch of the terrible managers. I have a theory that, if companies just bothered to give their employees the proper permissions and training, they could get by with only one shift lead if even that. But instead they'd rather hire multiple managers to do peon work then get baffled as to why their basic employees seem so ineffective because they need to call over a manager constantly because of some permission thing or a task that they could easily do if they ever got the time/permission to train for it. Most employees will know just what needs to be done and who should do it and can self-manage and the ones who are problems likely won't reform if a manager is around because they're, well, problematic a-holes who don't care.

Managers don't just manage, they actually do work besides that. In lower-end fields, they do work identical to the people they supervise but have managerial duties on top of it. Usually when they're just doing managerial duties, they either have a massive staff or they're just a lousy manager.

And, of course, there are managers who don't have employees to supervise. Sometimes it happens when their staff gets re-assigned, laid off, or fired. Other times they never had anybody to supervise.


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Yellow posted...

Speak for yourself

People who make less than $20 an hour generally work their asses off.

LOL no.

Anyway, back on topic.

If anything, companies will want to make the profit back up and there will be a return to some form of sanity and of meritocracy instead if useless sjw beliefs like diversity.

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