Current Events > Just saw Batman TDKR again *nolan batman and afflek batman spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

This movie got quite a bit of hate a couple years after simply because it wasn't TDK, it's sort of like the zelda cycle, every zelda game gets some hate because it's not OoT. But setting that aside...

The Nolan trilogy is a masterpiece compared to Batman vs Superman and Justice League:

1) The quality of the dialogue

TDKR has some really quotable, unusually poetic (for a superhero movie) lines, for example, Bruce fails to make the jump out of the pit and he gets lectured on how the "boy" who made the jump successfully was born and molded in hell and grew up in sheer horror, while he was a man born into privilege. The delivery of said line was really well made, and the dialogue was poignant. Good luck having "u bLeed? U wIlL" Afflek Batman saying something like that, or even superman with his "death tickles" silly stuff.

Bane had many quotable dialogues that are actually rather... I'd not say poetic, but unusually stylish for a superhero movie, such as this:

https://youtu.be/bpmNgPzklmQ?t=66

What do bad guys like steppenwolf say, "giMmiE dA mOtherBox?"

2) Batman is on-character

Is he smart? Yes! Is he strategic? Yes! But most of all, he is still altruistic... he is saying over and over how he "hasn't given everything to gotham, not yet", or when Gordon says "I didn't say thanks" he says "you'll never have to". This is a cold, calculating but still altruistic and deeply honorable batman.

Compare to afflek batman, he had a small peen envy against superman, he acted afraid around him several times, he was an ass (mocking wonder woman's boyfriend's death? Really?!) and he was actually dumb, this was the most un-batman thing of it all. So his master plan was running away from the parademons on his car and getting killed? His other grand plan was to withdraw Louise and let Superman nearly murder the entire justice league until the very last second? Let's not forget he is kind of a coward too, do you remember when he hid behind Deadshot's daughter in order to convince him to give himself in?

These newer batman interpretations made me realize what a masterpiece the Nolan Batman script and characterization were. And don't get me started on Patterson's S&M sub-looking suit with those junkie needles around his wrists instead of gauntlets...

I know people have an issue with Talia being the real villain, but I thought that Bane was great, and felt like a real menace throughout.

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The real issue is with the twist. It was unnecessary and existed only for the sake of convention. It's like Christopher Nolan's creative conscience told him it was wrong for the muscular bad guy to also be the brains of the outfit, so he shoehorned in the true leader of the bad guys and extended the film twenty minutes beyond where it should've ended.

Other than that, it's a pretty solid film through and through.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

stopped reading right here because lolno

you certainly had to reply and add negativity anyway huh?

boxington posted...

I know people have an issue with Talia being the real villain, but I thought that Bane was great, and felt like a real menace throughout.

Yeah that was odd, but that was a great plot twist. When she stabbed Bruce and twisted the knife I was like WTF?!?!?

Skye Reynolds posted...

The real issue is with the twist. It was unnecessary and existed only for the sake of convention. It's like Christopher Nolan's creative conscience told him it was wrong for the muscular bad guy to also be the brains of the outfit, so he shoehorned in the true leader of the bad guys and extended the film twenty minutes beyond where it should've ended.

Other than that, it's a pretty solid film through and through.

I see your point. It's a good one. But still, the movie is so damn quotable, it isn't even funny. It's like the star fox 64 of movies LOL.
I can't think of a single quote from batman vs superman, justice league or suicide squad other than "U bleeD? U wiLL!"

I've watched it like 3 times. Still don't really get the hate

Was just as good as the other 2

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Youre a big guy

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Nolan did a good job with what he had. His original plans for TDKR involved joker to a large extent, so obviously those had to change. Considering what he had to come up with on very short notice, he did a remarkable job
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It sucks because Batman was useless throughout the entire movie, the last half an hour is nonsense and Bane is a boring villain. Adding Talia in at the last minute made it even worse.

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im not 13 posted...

I've watched it like 3 times. Still don't really get the hate

Was just as good as the other 2

agreed

teepan95 posted...

Nolan did a good job with what he had. His original plans for TDKR involved joker to a large extent, so obviously those had to change. Considering what he had to come up with on very short notice, he did a remarkable job

Good point. Joker's speech at the end of TDK is basically setting up his role for TDKR, and then tragedy stuck Heath.

GOATSLAYER posted...

Batman was useless throughout the entire movie,

Yeah, he was an old, feeble man by then, that was sort of the point.

He wasnt in his 40s, not a senior citizen lol. Why would I want to watch a movie where the main character cant do anything and has to have a supporting character save the day for him?

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GOATSLAYER posted...

He wasnt in his 40s, not a senior citizen lol. Why would I want to watch a movie where the main character cant do anything and has to have a supporting character save the day for him?

his leg was fucked from the fall in TDK, he had to walk with a cane. He went into hiding too, and there was a period of peace.

Yet he rose up to the challenge, found that awesome knee brace that allowed him to beat up thugs with considerable ease, and he even ended beating up bane in a 1 vs 1 on the rematch. I'd hardly say he was useless....

Coastal_elite posted...

his leg was fucked from the fall in TDK, he had to walk with a cane. He went into hiding too, and there was a period of peace.

Yet he rose up to the challenge, found that awesome knee brace that allowed him to beat up thugs with considerable ease, and he even ended beating up bane in a 1 vs 1 on the rematch. I'd hardly say he was useless....

Its been a long time since I saw the movie but Im 99% sure that Catwoman defeated Bane, not Batman

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GOATSLAYER posted...

Its been a long time since I saw the movie but Im 99% sure that Catwoman defeated Bane, not Batman

Round 2? Batman beat him, then he gave him that "where's the trigger? You'd not have given it to an ordinary citizen?!?!" Then he told him the "tell me where is the trigger, then you have my permission to die!" line.

Then Talia backstabbed bruce (literally) and Bane recovered and Talia left and then Catwoman saved Batman

The ban immunity plan I just filed with the moderators lists me, The Fam, Coastal_elite here, but only one of you! First one to appeal a ban gets to stay on this message board!

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The_Scarecrow posted...

The ban immunity plan I just filed with the moderators lists me, The Fam, Coastal_elite here, but only one of you! First one to appeal a ban gets to stay on this message board!

It's too late to save me :(

I was actually thinking about this on my way home today (because I was listening to Nolan Batman music).

I dont really care for The Dark Knight Rises but its one of those odd situations where I dont really know why.

I think I might have over-hyped it for myself (since Batman Begins is great and The Dark Knight is one of my all time favorite movies) but, idk, something about Rises just doesnt do it for me. I need to watch it again though.

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rexcrk posted...

I was actually thinking about this on my way home today (because I was listening to Nolan Batman music).

I dont really care for The Dark Knight Rises but its one of those odd situations where I dont really know why.

I think I might have over-hyped it for myself (since Batman Begins is great and The Dark Knight is one of my all time favorite movies) but, idk, something about Rises just doesnt do it for me. I need to watch it again though.

it probably won't do it for you if it didn't before. But seeing the new DC shit like BvS and JL and SS gave me a new appreciation for its highly quotable dialogue and in-character renditions

Batvoice was already dumb as fuck in the trilogy and Banevoice made part 3 even dumber. You'd have to be a really big Nolan fan to be able to tolerate that shit.

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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Batvoice was already dumb as fuck in the trilogy and Banevoice made part 3 even dumber. You'd have to be a really big Nolan fan to be able to tolerate that shit.

the voices were bad, yes.

I enjoy Bane's, ad bad as it is. "I'm here to fulfill rash al ghouls's desshtinnyyyy!" *opens arms wide*

I like Bane's voice. I appreciate it when a movie or show is able to do something different with a character.

It's like Dragon Ball Z. Freiza is the best villain of the series because he has a grandma voice. And, yes, I'm talking about the 90s dub.

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Skye Reynolds posted...

I like Bane's voice. I appreciate it when a movie or show is able to do something different with a character.

It's like Dragon Ball Z. Freiza is the best villain of the series because he has a grandma voice. And, yes, I'm talking about the 90s dub.

I want a GPS with Bane's voice, licensed.

*makes wrong turn*

"You've made a terrible mistake..."

*turns on night mode*

"ahhh, so you think darkness is your ally!"

Hahaha.

I would totally buy that.

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ClunkerSlim posted...

The movie where Batman gave up... fucking twice.

?

I really enjoyed the first 2/3's. Last third was crap. I did not really like the twist because of what it did to banes character but that is only a small reason.

Still enjoyable but by far the weakest in the series imo

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Tell me about Bane! Why does he wear the mask?

Trelve posted...

Tell me about Bane! Why does he wear the mask?

Have you seen the movie?

The mods have it for me, so I am just trying to get confirmation that I am not spoiling the movie for you, or that you don't mind the spoiler and want it.

TDKR is good but dumb. BvS was bad and dumb. Big difference.
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lilORANG posted...

TDKR is good but dumb. BvS was bad and dumb. Big difference.

to be fair, superhero movies in general are mostly dumb. What's considered to be the best one? Ironman? Let's see:

HURR DURR I be trapped in cave!!! I grab a bunch of steel plates and build me a superhero suit LOL. Now I make better suit and fly too WEEEEEEE

I mean they're superhero movies, it comes with the territory. The point is whether they're good enough to allow for suspension of disbelief.

Coastal_elite posted...

to be fair, superhero movies in general are mostly dumb. What's considered to be the best one? Ironman? Let's see:

HURR DURR I be trapped in cave!!! I grab a bunch of steel plates and build me a superhero suit LOL. Now I make better suit and fly too WEEEEEEE

I mean they're superhero movies, it comes with the territory. The point is whether they're good enough to allow for suspension of disbelief.

No
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lilORANG posted...

No

*sigh*

Ok, ok, whatever man. Gee, somebody is cranky today

Coastal_elite posted...

Trelve posted...

Tell me about Bane! Why does he wear the mask?

Have you seen the movie?

The mods have it for me, so I am just trying to get confirmation that I am not spoiling the movie for you, or that you don't mind the spoiler and want it.

....judging by that reaction, have you seen the movie?
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Coastal_elite posted...

*sigh*

Ok, ok, whatever man. Gee, somebody is cranky today

A science fiction movie isn't dumb because it has science fiction elements.
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lilORANG posted...

A science fiction movie isn't dumb because it has science fiction elements.

car

DuranOfForcena posted...

stopped reading right here because lolno

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Imagine confusing the cringey dialoge the internet repeats (to make fun of it) with "quotable, unusually poetic" and "quality" lines

I'll say this about TDKR - I left the theater after seeing it not knowing what to think about it. I didn't know if I was feeling disappointment or upset or sad or whatnot but I felt uneasy. Soon after I had interpreted it as not liking it.

But then every time it came on TV I couldn't not watch it. So in the end, on repeated viewings, I do enjoy it a lot.

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ClunkerSlim posted...

At the beginning of the film Batman just gave up the mission. Hes literally sitting at home in a bathrobe probably watching daytime TV. Batman doesnt give up the mission to stay home and watch The Price is Right. And dont give me any shit about him being injured. They almost flat out say hes staying at home because of Rachels death. They assassinated Batmans character right at the start of the film.

And if that wasnt enough, the entire film is almost dedicated to having Batman walk away, with Alfred going into bitchy schoolgirl mode for 90% of the film. And EVEN THEN if that wasnt enough, the film leads you to believe that theres at least the possibility that Bruce gave up the mission to go run around drinking coffee in Paris or some shit.

#NotMyBatman

Im not normally one to nerd rage but this is 100% correct.

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ClunkerSlim posted...

At the beginning of the film Batman just gave up the mission. Hes literally sitting at home in a bathrobe probably watching daytime TV. Batman doesnt give up the mission to stay home and watch The Price is Right. And dont give me any shit about him being injured. They almost flat out say hes staying at home because of Rachels death. They assassinated Batmans character right at the start of the film.

And if that wasnt enough, the entire film is almost dedicated to having Batman walk away, with Alfred going into bitchy schoolgirl mode for 90% of the film. And EVEN THEN if that wasnt enough, the film leads you to believe that theres at least the possibility that Bruce gave up the mission to go run around drinking coffee in Paris or some shit.

#NotMyBatman

I thought he had actually won and had nothing to do?

Like, there was a period of peace in Gotham. There was no big cheese to go after, so he sort of became a hermit (it didn't help the entire police force was after him too). That's why Bane was like "peace has costed you strength... victory has defeated yoooouuuuuu"

I'm curious, if Nolan TDKR is #NotYourBatman, would you agree that the Afflek batman is even worse? He is very unintelligent, he is sort of a coward, easy to provoke and he was even a dick to Wonder Woman in JL after she saved his life in BvS

DuranOfForcena posted...

for you

Lmao

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ClunkerSlim posted...

At the beginning of the film Batman just gave up the mission. Hes literally sitting at home in a bathrobe probably watching daytime TV. Batman doesnt give up the mission to stay home and watch The Price is Right. And dont give me any shit about him being injured. They almost flat out say hes staying at home because of Rachels death. They assassinated Batmans character right at the start of the film.

And if that wasnt enough, the entire film is almost dedicated to having Batman walk away, with Alfred going into bitchy schoolgirl mode for 90% of the film. And EVEN THEN if that wasnt enough, the film leads you to believe that theres at least the possibility that Bruce gave up the mission to go run around drinking coffee in Paris or some shit.

#NotMyBatman

I mean they have to tell a story somehow? The fact he's so fed up just pays homage to how impactful the joker was on him

I won't lie and say I'm an expert on the character but Batman is supposed to be dark and real...He's not Goku he's still a damaged human being under it all.

Maybe the way it was delivered was annoying (tbh I didn't think bales performance was all that) but I didn't see a huge problem with it. The "I give up" trope is common in superhero stories

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Idk if Im in the minority but Banes voice made him sound like the least intimidating character ever.

he sounds like a soft British guy on his death bed. It always made me laugh and the lines he delivered were cringe. It killed the character for
me.

Shouldve kept him the badass genius from Santa Prisca that he was. Raised in a prison. Basically Batman but raised without money or much love. Bane made it due to sheer intelligence, being ruthless and having charisma. Him being Talias.... whatever was pathetic.

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ClunkerSlim posted...

At the beginning of the film Batman just gave up the mission. Hes literally sitting at home in a bathrobe probably watching daytime TV. Batman doesnt give up the mission to stay home and watch The Price is Right. And dont give me any shit about him being injured. They almost flat out say hes staying at home because of Rachels death. They assassinated Batmans character right at the start of the film.

And if that wasnt enough, the entire film is almost dedicated to having Batman walk away, with Alfred going into bitchy schoolgirl mode for 90% of the film. And EVEN THEN if that wasnt enough, the film leads you to believe that theres at least the possibility that Bruce gave up the mission to go run around drinking coffee in Paris or some shit.

#NotMyBatman

part of the premise of this batman movie was, between movie 2 and 3, he had gotten too hurt to keep up the fight because he was wounded by the end of his Joker fight. He had never emotionally recovered from Rachael either. and thanks to that harvey dent law, the gotham police didn't seem to need batman, ergo he retired sort of.

This movie was about Batman coming out of retirement out of necessity to pay for the sins of the second movie which is what Bane was on about, the "false" arrests. And to pay for the sin of not saving Talias father. In way this movie tries to tie itself back to batman's beginnings.

However we have an old defeated batman at this point, so yes he gets his ass kicked, but he must find the batman spirit one last time. Which is kind of the point, he needs to find himself one last time and this time when he retires, find peace, unlike at the beginning of the movie where his retirement had turned him into a hermit.

This trilogy is peak live action superhero movie. It's peak batman as well. Heck including animated and the comics, this trilogy is top notch super hero story telling. It takes a certain amount of balls to film a batman movie where "batman" only appears on screen like 15-20 minutes of it and your movie is 2 and a half hours.

teepan95 posted...

Nolan did a good job with what he had. His original plans for TDKR involved joker to a large extent, so obviously those had to change. Considering what he had to come up with on very short notice, he did a remarkable job

also this. Who knows what movie 3 looks like if Heath doesn't kill himself. No doubt movie 3 features the return of Heath's Joker.

overall, great trilogy, seen it multiple times. would watch it again.

It was good until they bait and switched the villain, minus a few "meh" points.

There's some plot jankery and some terrible lines.

But honestly aside from the lovesick puppy dog Bane part, it was alright. Bane was a good villain. And deserved to be the main villain. The whole Ras Al Ghul thing shoulda been shitcanned. Bane has a good origin story (minus the bat visions, but hey, it's gotta start somewhere). They should have gone with that.

I thought Tom Hardy killed it as Bane, and I liked the voice. I've never had issues understanding his lines. And the mask voice made sense.

I didn't like the "I'm just gonna peace out and retire now" thing. It does that fit Bruce Wayne.
And I hated the forcefed "OMG your names Robin!" Bullshit. I've always disliked guys who can't trust an audience to get it without it being fed to them.

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