Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 280: Sleepy Joe Gets Woke

(+) Yeah! (+)

RaidenGarai posted...

I think this whole enthusiasm thing doesn't really fit though. Bernie has all of these enthusiastic supporters, and a common pitch for him in the general election is this huge group of young, new voters that will turn out and guarantee him a win.

If that's all true though, where are those people now? That's the part of this that doesn't make sense to me. If things are close that could possibly make a difference, but if Biden ends up winning big, why does that mean Sanders is still the better candidate to beat Trump? Wouldn't that mean that they're both likely to lose then?

Because Biden wins people who will always show up.

It takes more than that to win.


---

The problem is "more than that" didn't happen this time, and that's why we are where we are. Enthusiasm is only great if you do something with it.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im sure I could dig up numbers, but Im more going off the refrain Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

Democrats need to be excited to win.

I don't disagree, but I would be really interested to see the enthusiasm numbers for each election. Offhand I can't think of a Democrat who won without the backing of some kind of excited "movement" since... LBJ?

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Because Biden wins people who will always show up.

It takes more than that to win.

It's not the same but primary turnout being up over 2016 makes me think it might be different this time with a dem nominee who isn't uniquely unpopular.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Because Biden wins people who will always show up.

It takes more than that to win.

That doesn't answer the question though. Why does this mean Bernie is a sure thing to beat Trump if he loses badly to Biden? Why would Bernie's magical group of young, new voters show up in the general if so many of them ignored the primaries, to the point where Bernie lost very badly?

This is all a hypothetical right now, since we have no idea what's going to happen over the next few months, it's just something I've been wondering for a while, and I'm really trying to understand.


---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Because Biden wins people who will always show up.

It takes more than that to win.

Turnout was up but so far not in Bernie's favor.

RaidenGarai posted...

That doesn't answer the question though. Why does this mean Bernie is a sure thing to beat Trump if he loses badly to Biden? Why would Bernie's magical group of young, new voters show up in the general if so many of them ignored the primaries, to the point where Bernie lost very badly?

The idea is that Bidens base will show up for any Dem against Trump.

Bernies wont.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Booker endorses Biden:
https://twitter.com/CoryBooker/status/1236971319822082048

I always really liked him; I probably would have considered supporting him over Joe had he ever looked viable.

lol

This primary would have been so much different if Biden had never entered...

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The idea is that Bidens base will show up for any Dem against Trump.

Bernies wont.

But we know this isn't true and you complain about the #NeverBerners all the time!

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The idea is that Bidens base will show up for any Dem against Trump.

Bernies wont.

So basically, the Bernie or Bust crowd cares less about the future of the country than the Never Bernie group, even though they're the ones with a lot more to lose, since a Trump win will prevent any of the progressive policies from happening for at least a generation, probably longer? These were the same people who were telling everybody else to fall in line because a Trump win would be devistating less than a month ago, and now they're saying it doesn't matter. They can't have it both ways.

That seems like a very cut off your nose to spite your face response if they really care about the policies Bernie is advocating for, instead of just "fuck the establishment"

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as rude here, again, I'm just trying to understand the mindset here, since there was so much "Vote Blue No Matter Who" when Bernie was up early. Now that he's not winning, that's changed.

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But we know this isn't true and you complain about the #NeverBerners all the time!

Excuse me, sir, I was assured those people arent real.
RaidenGarai posted...

So basically, the Bernie or Bust crowd cares less about the future of the country than the Never Bernie group, even though they're the ones with a lot more to lose, since a Trump win will prevent any of the progressive policies from happening for at least a generation, probably longer?

Its not that they care less about the future, its that they dont see any fundamental changes in their day to day life under your average Democrat.

These people dont trust Democrats.

But they trust Bernie.

Consider this:

https://twitter.com/hodgman/status/1237013257136865282?s=21

If this is Bidens real list, uhhhhhhhhh fuck Joe Biden?

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

But they trust Bernie

Trust up until he endorses Biden in such a scenario, right.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

If this is Bidens real list, uhhhhhhhhh fuck Joe Biden?

They are real in that the person that made the image made them up.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Its not that they care less about the future, its that they dont see any fundamental changes in their day to day life under your average Democrat.

Even if that ends up being true, isn't that better than moving in the opposite direction and basically making any progressive progress impossible for the foreseeable future?

---

Bloomberg as part of any cabinet is a big no from me. Biden's VP will be very important, though. Cause no way can I imagine him running in 2024.

---

Leafeon13N posted...

Trust up until he endorses Biden in such a scenario, right.

There are a handful of blackpilled supporters who havent forgiven him for endorsing Hillary, and will also hate when he endorses Biden.

But the vast majority of Bernie supporters know Bernie is too nice, and it has nothing to do with trust and more knowledge that Bernie would rather resign himself to meh, ok than threatening to tear the party to the ground like Trump did.

---

Leafeon13N posted...

They are real in that the person that made the image made them up.

They didnt make the image, its from an Axios article

https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

They didnt make the image, its from an Axios article

https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html

From the way it is written it sounds like opening paragraph might be true and the rest is conjecture by the author.

So even though Bernie has already said he would do everything he can to help Biden win (just as Biden has said the same thing for Bernie), they would ignore that and pout? I'm not one of the people that blames Bernie for Clinton's failure, I blame her and the inept campaign that she ran. She was way too overconfident and it came back to bite her.

That list is clearly labelled as "potential", it's not absolute, and not set in stone yet. Why panic and throw a fit over something so early that could still change.

All I'm gathering from these responses is that the Bernie or Bust people are a bunch of immature, hypocritical children who don't care about anything beyond getting what they want. If they can't get what they want, they'd rather watch the worst possible thing happen, since that's the very thing they told supporters of other candidates when it looked like they were winning. It's not a good look if that's actually the case.

I don't think this is true about an overwhemling majority of them, but that's what the explanation seems to say, so I'm taking that at face value. Could it just be that emotions are so high, and so raw right now, that people aren't thinking rationally about what will really be better for their policy goals long term? I really hope that's the case, because if it isn't they really don't care about what Bernie is trying to do at all.

---

Dancedreamer posted...

Bloomberg as part of any cabinet is a big no from me. Biden's VP will be very important, though. Cause no way can I imagine him running in 2024.

kinda the most frustrating thing about Biden winning is the uncertainty of 2024

... though then again much better than a certain Bloomberg or Pete 8-year reign

---

metroid composite posted...

:|

Have to hope those less enthusiastic people vote I guess?

Anecdotally, not looking great.

CelesMyUserName posted...

kinda the most frustrating thing about Biden winning is the uncertainty of 2024

We would likely be getting a 4 year term with Bernie as well.

It is the main reason I was holding hope that a Warren or something would emerge. Incumbency advantage has basically been thrown out the door.

Well, that's certainly a graph:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/michigan/

---

CelesMyUserName posted...

... though then again much better than a certain Bloomberg or Pete 8-year reign

Bloomberg is 78. I don't think he'd make it 8 years either.

---

I know it's probably not going to happen, but I'd still like to see Warren as a potential VP pick.

---

HeroicSpiderPig posted...

Well, that's certainly a graph:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/michigan/

How the hell is Gabbard getting 1.3%

---

Dancedreamer posted...

Bloomberg is 78. I don't think he'd make it 8 years either.

Running presidential campaigns is tough.

I would bet Bloomberg, being filthy rich and not running cross country campaigns multiple times, is unfortunately probably in much better health.

RaidenGarai posted...

How the hell is Gabbard getting 1.3%

Dude, this is b8. You know how people vote.

RaidenGarai posted...

How the hell is Gabbard getting 1.3%

"She can get it"

---

Leafeon13N posted...

We would likely be getting a 4 year term with Bernie as well.

It is the main reason I was holding hope that a Warren or something would emerge. Incumbency advantage has basically been thrown out the door.

Dancedreamer posted...

Bloomberg is 78. I don't think he'd make it 8 years either.

man to think that 77 used to be the greatest age of a president leaving office after two terms (Reagan, next Eisenhower leaving at 70)

---

Also i know some of you aren't ready to hear this but... If Biden gets over 50% in Michigan Bernie has to drop right?

Bernie has gone pretty hard into Michigan and that would be pretty devastating.

RaidenGarai posted...

How the hell is Gabbard getting 1.3%

1.3% of the state has some extra dalmatians they need to offload.

---

Leafeon13N posted...

Also i know some of you aren't ready to hear this but... If Biden gets over 50% in Michigan Bernie has to drop right?

Bernie has gone pretty hard into Michigan and that would be pretty devastating.

A 50 point margin? The fuck? I
mean at that point, yeah, but seems very unlikely.

But after literally everyone said theyd stay in if it looked like no one would get the required number, I think Bernie should stick it out until thats imminent

Also we really need to see Biden in a 1v1 debate

---

If Bernie really intends to back Biden, I could see him drop out before the debate since he knows it's gonna make Biden look like a total idiot, and everyone is pretty much aware at this point that Biden's best chance to win this thing is to not talk.

Getting destroyed by Bernie right before he drops and endorses wouldn't be great. I don't think he debates.

MichelBollinger posted...

If Bernie really intends to back Biden, I could see him drop out before the debate since he knows it's gonna make Biden look like a total idiot, and everyone is pretty much aware at this point that Biden's best chance to win this thing is to not talk.

Getting destroyed by Bernie right before he drops and endorses wouldn't be great. I don't think he debates.

Bernie can be as nice as he wants, Trump won't. Unless Biden is going to refuse to debate Trump, he's going to have to face a 1v1 debate eventually.

eh debating Trump and debating Bernie are very different things

Biden vs Trump is gonna be peak octogenarian mud wrestling as opposed to any substantial debate of ideas

---

Trump was pretty weak in the debates in 2016. Crowds that are actually there to judge him and not give blind praise are not his thing.

And he is certainly more unhinged than he was back then.

Would not be surprised if he threatens not to participate in one of the debates and follows through on it this time.

Biden can maybe debate Trump, kind of depends how there he is that day. That's honestly a toss up to me, I would give Trump a slight advantage there.

But Biden gets absolutely nothing by debating Bernie. There is nothing Biden can do to make himself look like a better candidate or win people over while debating Bernie.

"For people that don't like me, I'll still do somethings he would, just way worse! I'm probably lying about it, though..."

Honestly I will trust Biden's viability as a candidate much more if he refuses to debate Bernie.

bernie shouldn't drop out regardless of results just yet.
let them do one debate, one on one, let the following states vote.

if he still gets beat then yeah, drop.

---

Biden can outdebate Trump easily.

Clinton was half-asleep and she whooped his ass.

---

Debates don't matter, especially with Trump. Biden has very little to gain and a lot to lose.

---

So apparently that clip of "we can only elect donald trump" Biden gaffe thing...was a fake edited video, and has now been tagged as such on twitter (with a newly added "manipulated media" tag):

https://twitter.com/Cat_Zakrzewski/status/1236771032746414080

---

metroid composite posted...

So apparently that clip of "we can only elect donald trump" Biden gaffe thing...was a fake edited video, and has now been tagged as such on twitter (with a newly added "manipulated media" tag):

https://twitter.com/Cat_Zakrzewski/status/1236771032746414080

Good now we can get all the videos you guys post cut off without context under the same label also.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237027356314869761

very reassuring

Omfg

At this point Im not sure the 25th Amendment being used is less likely than people convincing Trump to do the right thing here

---

If Trump wins he will almost certainly become the first president impeached twice.

Corrik7 posted...

Good now we can get all the videos you guys post cut off without context under the same label also.

Too bad this is more of a conservative thing, huh?

---

Espeon posted...

Too bad this is more of a conservative thing, huh?

It's pointless both ways. I at least find it humorous when Trump does it because he is clearly making jokes in some of them. Like the Biden endorsement one.

However, people that purposely do that and try to pass them off as legit arguments and such are annoying. On both sides.

---

Is Michigan the only state voting tomorrow?

---

Zazabar posted...

Is Michigan the only state voting tomorrow?

Nope

Washington
Idaho
North Dakota
Michigan
Missouri
Mississippi

---

Tulsi 2020

---