Current Events > Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

(+) Yeah! (+)

The-19th-Sparta posted...

there are many other places where naturally born men are separated from the naturally born women

Yeah what are those

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We have a very simple solution to this: create a transgender sports category.

Men and women have one, now create one for transgenders.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqXBH7RymUU

No Tolerance posted...
Ooo, a purchased account. It's been a while.

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

We have a very simple solution to this: create a transgender sports category

And watch as men completely wreck women in that category, because it's still a physical advantage.

Also, I doubt there'd be enough popularity, the vast majority would likely only watch male sports in most cases, instead of female or trans. Which I imagine would lead to much lower incomes for trans athletes?

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DoorbellLicker posted...

i, btw, call bullshit on that last one. Serena Williams would destroy a bunch of ranked mens players.

I get why youd think that just by watching TV because the gap doesnt appear as large as NBA vs WNBA, but it actually is a massive gap. Shed lose to good college players mainly because she cant move nearly as well as they do. Also when men and women appear to be hitting at a similar pace, the men still put way more spin on the ball.

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DoorbellLicker posted...

1500 of the top male tennis players in the world could beat Serena Williams.

i, btw, call bullshit on that last one. Serena Williams would destroy a bunch of ranked mens players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters

garan posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters

whoa I never even knew this happened

pinky0926 posted...

@Frolex

What are the sample sizes in these studies? My assumption is that there just are not an awful lot of elite trans athletes in order to make a meaningful comparison, but perhaps I'm wrong.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", and all that.

Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if they have more data for things like running than they would for weight lifting or rugby, for instance.

It's been a while since i went through the methodology for the studies so i don't remember what the exact sample sizes for each study were. Really more than anything though they demonstrate that the narrative that transwomen are dominating womens sports is a narrative that isn't supported by the data or available literature.

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tennisdude818 posted...

I get why youd think that just by watching TV because the gap doesnt appear as large as NBA vs WNBA, but it actually is a massive gap. Shed lose to good college players mainly because she cant move nearly as well as they do. Also when men and women appear to be hitting at a similar pace, the men still put way more spin on the ball.

well there is absolutely no way I can disagree with you because it all makes sense.

The usual way I see this topic argued is if you look at the WNBA, what do you see? Tall people. Tall women specifically.

It's a competition that tends to favor the tall. That's just the breaks.

So the argument then goes...

Transgender women are just women that are born physically gifted. That's just the breaks.

She was born a bit more gifted for sports.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The core truth underlying this whole issue, is that women's sport was a safe space long before "safe space" itself was really a concept in the collective consciousness.

Hmmm. Under that logic, conservatives have defended safe spaces for thousands of years.

Men only. Whites only.

But also female divisions in sports and other areas. (Olympics, bathrooms etc)
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Notti posted...

Hmmm. Under that logic, conservatives have defended safe spaces for thousands of years.

Men only. Whites only.

But also female divisions in sports and other areas. (Olympics, bathrooms etc)

I'm not gonna disagree.

Notti posted...

Hmmm. Under that logic, conservatives have defended safe spaces for thousands of years.

Men only. Whites only.

But also female divisions in sports and other areas. (Olympics, bathrooms etc)

What point are you trying to make here? I dont see you as being conservative-minded, so Im wondering if youre low key saying we should not have divisions at all. I have heard that proposed before, but I dont think biological women or trans women would support that.


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"biological women"

Still waiting on anyone to find a college level textbook that actually has that made up misnomer of a term that got coined solely for transposition purposes. :l

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gunplagirl posted...

"biological women"

Still waiting on anyone to find a college level textbook that actually has that made up misnomer of a term that got coined solely for transposition purposes. :l

At this point, Im starting to understand what those people mean when theyve experienced gaslighting.

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gunplagirl posted...

"biological women"

Still waiting on anyone to find a college level textbook that actually has that made up misnomer of a term that got coined solely for transphobic purposes. :l

Just out of curiosity, do you think biological sex is a spectrum?

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gunplagirl posted...

"biological women"

Still waiting on anyone to find a college level textbook that actually has that made up misnomer of a term that got coined solely for transphobic purposes. :l

The only thing more pathetic than an actual transphobic person is someone who desperately wants to see an argument based on transphobia to the point they create one completely based on their own fabricated subject matter when there are no other legitimate grounds to stand on.

Go ahead and bump this topic in another 5+ hours when you're bored to keep your source of comedy going.

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shnangyboos posted...

Just out of curiosity, do you think biological sex is a spectrum?

It actually is to a degree, although people with DSDs are rare and obviously not the same as transgender people.

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I was thinking more of the specrum they use for gender. Lower testosterone would have you towards the female end of the biological spectrum.

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shnangyboos posted...

Just out of curiosity, do you think biological sex is a spectrum?

With regards to what it entails, this is an appropriate use of the term. And yes, it's a spectrum. If it was a bell graph there'd basically be a standard range occupied by cis male and cis female with some standard deviations, a lot of intersex conditions in between but most leaning heavily to one end (klinefelter's, etc.), and then a few other extreme intersex conditions beyond the generally expected limits of male and female (xxx chromosomes). Then there's gonads and stuff related to that, as well as a lot more variation for transgender ranges. And that's just with regards to genitalia.

shnangyboos posted...

I was thinking more of the specrum they use for gender. Lower testosterone would have you towards the female end of the biological spectrum.

Not necessarily, I don't remember off the top of my head since my hormones levels are pretty much in the same range at all times except the 1~3 hour mark after taking my hormones because they're metabolizing then. But I know the cis female range for testosterone can go as high as the lowest end for older cis men, but I'm not talking about the ones who would need testosterone supplements. Actually, that's another aspect to take into account. Plenty of older men and women don't produce enough of their primary hormone and the biggest risk is to bone health, so they are frequently prescribed hormones.

So yeah, it's a really complex spectrum.

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The-19th-Sparta posted...

The only thing more pathetic than an actual transphobic person is someone who desperately wants to see an argument based on transphobia to the point they create one completely based on their own fabricated subject matter when there are no other legitimate grounds to stand on.

Go ahead and bump this topic in another 5+ hours when you're bored to keep your source of comedy going.

So you don't actually have any textbook examples of the term "biological sex" I take it? How sad. If I'm "pathetic" then what's that make you, as someone clearly beneath me?

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Im glad none of you here are doctors or wed all be so screwed.

This gunplagirl person has been a real pleasant person to talk to and doesn't come across as condescending whatsoever.

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Hey folks, when you're losing an argument, just suggest the person you're arguing with is being mean.

Works for Republicans.

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TommyG663513 posted...

This gunplagirl person has been a real pleasant person to talk to and doesn't come across as condescending whatsoever.

I'm sure it's real pleasant for her to read and respond to the same tired transphobic arguments day in and day out.

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I'm sure it's real pleasant for female athletes to have all their hard work completely denied by men who decided they don't like their gender and want to compete against women while keeping all the advantages they have as men.

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Conservatives: People shouldn't get participation trophies!

Also conservatives: Trans women shouldn't compete so ciswomen can get participation trophies!

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Trans women (or to be correct, men) should compete amongst men, so that they don't get advantages

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Conflict posted...

I love when people submit dumbass transphobic posts that's so obviously gonna get them warned or suspended which winds up benefiting the rest of the board

Mods have been doing less and less in regards to moderating transphobic posts/users

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Mods are highly inconsistent, especially when it comes to political correctness. One guy said he was the only one to get suspended for posting that South Park pic and the others are still up. He is also sad that no one made a " _____ is SUSPENDED!" topic for him.

CarrieChan posted...

He is also sad that no one made a " _____ is SUSPENDED!" topic for him.

I'll send a ham to his widow.

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How is this a tough situation? Have them compete in a new league for transgenders.

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Conflict posted...

There's not exactly a whole lot of transgender athletes to justify a whole league

Its unfair to have them compete in the other leagues.

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gunplagirl posted...

With regards to what it entails, this is an appropriate use of the term. And yes, it's a spectrum. If it was a bell graph there'd basically be a standard range occupied by cis male and cis female with some standard deviations, a lot of intersex conditions in between but most leaning heavily to one end (klinefelter's, etc.), and then a few other extreme intersex conditions beyond the generally expected limits of male and female (xxx chromosomes). Then there's gonads and stuff related to that, as well as a lot more variation for transgender ranges. And that's just with regards to genitalia.

Not necessarily, I don't remember off the top of my head since my hormones levels are pretty much in the same range at all times except the 1~3 hour mark after taking my hormones because they're metabolizing then. But I know the cis female range for testosterone can go as high as the lowest end for older cis men, but I'm not talking about the ones who would need testosterone supplements. Actually, that's another aspect to take into account. Plenty of older men and women don't produce enough of their primary hormone and the biggest risk is to bone health, so they are frequently prescribed hormones.

So yeah, it's a really complex spectrum.

A spectrum means it starts at one point and has a continuous strand until the end of said spectrum with infinite possibilities. Sex is not a spectrum is there are are male, female, intersex. There is no such thing as 'almost biologically male.' If anything, intersex traits could be considered a genetic mutation; much like albinism (primarily due to the rarity).

Klinefelter syndrome also does NOT change a person's sex. A person with Klinefelter syndrome is still biologically male. https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/klinefelter

Gender, however, is a spectrum. One can have feminine traits but also masculine traits of varying (or near infinite) degrees. These traits are not based on biology but instead society. Some societies have very rigid structures of gender, while others do not.

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CarrieChan posted...

Mods are highly inconsistent, especially when it comes to political correctness. One guy said he was the only one to get suspended for posting that South Park pic and the others are still up. He is also sad that no one made a " _____ is SUSPENDED!" topic for him.

people offended at the South Park episode...???? Sooo nobody actually watched it then? PC babies were adorable.

Imastrongwoman posted...

people offended at the South Park episode...???? Sooo nobody actually watched it then? PC babies were adorable.

Oh I was waiting for this.

Isn't it nice how South Park can make an episode about transgender people yet not about transgender people? They can just say "Oh that person who looks like a man but is competing as a woman is actually a cis man looking to get revenge on another contender, so it wasn't actually about transgender people at all!"

If that's the case, why was it posted and replied to multiple times? If it's not about transgender people, then there shouldn't be a connection right?

Yet here you are, using it for the cause of mockery.

Maybe no one buys your brand of bullshit?

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jumi posted...

I'm sure it's real pleasant for her to read and respond to the same tired transphobic arguments day in and day out.

Thinking that MtF have an unfair advantage over cis females isn't transphobic. It is an incredibly obvious observation.

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CyricZ posted...

Hey folks, when you're losing an argument, just suggest the person you're arguing with is being mean.

Works for Republicans.

Lol nope. The person in question is remarkably ignorant and condescending. This isn't a complicated topic. MtFs have an unfair advantage over cis females in athletics. Only reason we don't hear more of it is that trans individuals are such an incredibly small minority. Then only a portion of those individuals are even involved in athletics.

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CyricZ posted...

Oh I was waiting for this.

Isn't it nice how South Park can make an episode about transgender people yet not about transgender people? They can just say "Oh that person who looks like a man but is competing as a woman is actually a cis man looking to get revenge on another contender, so it wasn't actually about transgender people at all!"

If that's the case, why was it posted and replied to multiple times? If it's not about transgender people, then there shouldn't be a connection right?

Yet here you are, using it for the cause of mockery.

Maybe no one buys your brand of bullshit?

i.. never posted the picture as its irrelevant really to the topic at hand but how come society as a whole vastly differs from the opinions here I just find it a little odd

Imastrongwoman posted...

i.. never posted the picture

If you're taken aback by being called out on this, then just assume that the "you" is not referring to you specifically, just people who posted the picture, as anyone who can extrapolate context could figure out.

Then again, you're obviously someone's alt, so I don't have any reason to believe one of those people who posted the picture isn't you.

TommyG663513 posted...

This isn't a complicated topic

This statement right here. This is mean. This is ignorant. This is condescending.

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CyricZ posted...

If you're taken aback by being called out on this, then just assume that the "you" is not referring to you specifically, just people who posted the picture, as anyone who can extrapolate context could figure out.

Then again, you're obviously someone's alt, so I don't have any reason to believe one of those people who posted the picture isn't you.

This statement right here. This is mean. This is ignorant. This is condescending.

Im nobodies alt and Im nobody heres anything but you seem a little egotistical so think what you will :p

Honestly how could anyone say "this isn't complicated"

Sports scientists are calling this the most complex issue sport has ever had to face. Trans athletes, female athletes, sporting bodies, ethics bodies, scientists - no one is having a nice time with this topic right now.

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Imastrongwoman posted...

Im nobodies alt and Im nobody heres anything but you seem a little egotistical so think what you will :p

Lol I dont know why the gimmick alts ever bother denying it like this

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thronedfire2 posted...

Lol I dont know why the gimmick alts ever bother denying it like this

Because the people who make these alts are trying not to associate themselves with their main who they know no one takes seriously. They just forget to act in a different way that made people not like them in the first place.

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Like I've been on this site for twenty years. Do people honestly think I wouldn't recognize a person who's clearly comfortable and familiar with the posting style of this proprietary board system?

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CyricZ

Weren't you a mod at some point?

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iwasapoetonce posted...

CyricZ

Weren't you a mod at some point?

Yup. For nine years altogether.

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gunplagirl posted...

Cis people with zero understanding of transgender people or their transition being bigots? Yeah. Regular day on CE. The lawsuit is from the ADF, a known hate group that is helping fight marriage equality still. And the girls in the lawsuit wouldn't have made the podium even without the trans girl.

Its definitely not uncommon to see people claim to be unbigoted in one breath, while praising right wing hate groups and activists the next

See: this topic
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