Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 262: Witless Protection

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/31/20 3:37:59 PM
#402:


LordoftheMorons posted...
. (The real risk imo is that it could have pissed off Roberts and made him less likely to allow witnesses were there actually a tie; I dont think that was very likely anyway, but if it pushes it down from 10% to 5% or something that would have been a dumb thing to do for no reason).

uh

This would be the exact reason she asked that. If you already have very little reason to believe he'll vote for witnesses you have nearly nothing to lose. Even your 10-5% example is nothing. From a gaming/gambling perspective you make that play every single time.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 3:52:29 PM
#403:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
uh

This would be the exact reason she asked that. If you already have very little reason to believe he'll vote for witnesses you have nearly nothing to lose. Even your 10-5% example is nothing. From a gaming/gambling perspective you make that play every single time.
If she wanted to increase the odds that he'd tiebreak I don't see how implying that he or the Supreme Court had already lost legitimacy when he had yet to make any consequential decisions was going to do that.

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red sox 777
01/31/20 3:59:07 PM
#404:


Realistically the Chief Justice is not going to allow a comment like that to change his decision. He's not that sensitive.

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Nelson_Mandela
01/31/20 4:02:08 PM
#405:


Roberts would probably have allowed witnesses since he cares more about the perceived integrity of the Supreme Court than literally anything else in the country.

But Mitch probably convinced Murkowski this was not the case because he is the best politician of the past 100 years.

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/31/20 4:16:07 PM
#406:


LordoftheMorons posted...
If she wanted to increase the odds that he'd tiebreak I don't see how implying that he or the Supreme Court had already lost legitimacy when he had yet to make any consequential decisions was going to do that.

The question itself hinged the loss of court and constitutional credibility on the fact that the trial is a sham without witnesses and evidence, which can be fixed by his vote. Also don't think it's controversial to point out that Republicans aren't putting the Chief Justice in a great position, but it's possible Roberts feels otherwise.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 4:16:13 PM
#407:


Someone should ask Alexander and Rubio who they're supporting in the 2020 election given that they admit that Trump did it

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/31/20 4:16:59 PM
#408:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Someone should ask Alexander and Rubio who they're supporting in the 2020 election given that they admit that Trump did it

Alexander specifically said it would be wrong to take Trump off the ballot so probably still that guy

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 4:18:52 PM
#409:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
The question itself hinged the loss of court and constitutional credibility on the fact that the trial is a sham without witnesses and evidence, which can be fixed by his vote. Also don't think controversial to point out that Republicans aren't putting the Chief Justice in a great position, but it's possible Roberts feels otherwise.
If that's the case, she should have phrased it in a way that suggested that he/the Court would lose legitimacy if he was in a position to decide these things but didn't; otherwise it really makes no sense to say that it reflects on them rather than solely on the Senate GOP.

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TheRock1525
01/31/20 4:19:19 PM
#410:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
But Mitch probably convinced Murkowski this was not the case because he is the best politician of the past 100 years.
Wonder if you'll still agree with this when he loses his majority.

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red sox 777
01/31/20 4:19:40 PM
#411:


I think there is precedent for how the House of Commons speaker should break ties to avoid breaking his own impartiality. It was something like, on any vote to allow more debate, vote yes; on any vote to pass a bill vote no. Basically punt on substantive decisions as much as possible. I think Roberts could easily vote yes to witnesses using that logic.

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Jakyl25
01/31/20 4:21:59 PM
#412:


TheRock1525 posted...

Wonder if you'll still agree with this when he loses his majority.


Granted hes helped some by the awful format of the Senate, but to remain in power as long as he has despite being so unpopular, and with his party being the less popular party, and with the only person in his party that people like being the political nincompoop Donald Trump, its really impressive
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Grimlyn
01/31/20 4:22:34 PM
#413:


https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1223351079057813504

lmao

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 4:24:03 PM
#414:


https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1223352259200913409

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TheRock1525
01/31/20 4:25:18 PM
#415:


Jakyl25 posted...
Granted hes helped some by the awful format of the Senate, but to remain in power as long as he has despite being so unpopular, and with his party being the less popular party, and with the only person in his party that people like being the political nincompoop Donald Trump, its really impressive
I'm more of the mindset that McConnell is the luckiest politician than some political savant. He came along in a deeply polarized era and basically bet on one of the worst candidates ever and got a nice assist from the FBI.

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Jakyl25
01/31/20 4:27:17 PM
#416:


In this context Im construing best politician as being best at getting his agenda through
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HeroDelTiempo17
01/31/20 4:29:20 PM
#417:




LordoftheMorons posted...
If that's the case, she should have phrased it in a way that suggested that he/the Court would lose legitimacy if he was in a position to decide these things but didn't; otherwise it really makes no sense to say that it reflects on them rather than solely on the Senate GOP.

Schiff's deflection was that it reflects badly on the entire government as a whole so I guess fair enough.

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red sox 777
01/31/20 4:33:35 PM
#418:


Grimlyn posted...
https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1223351079057813504

lmao

The problem with US lectures to other countries is that we rarely talk about what has actually made the US system work - a very strong system of checks and balances. Like today. The power of the House was checked and balanced.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 4:51:41 PM
#419:


https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1223290139679567872?s=21

Aside from directly implicating Trump, Bolton also indicates that Cipollone was a witness to Trumps actions (and therefore had no business representing him)

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Nelson_Mandela
01/31/20 4:54:52 PM
#420:


TheRock1525 posted...
Wonder if you'll still agree with this when he loses his majority.
Doesn't even matter really. Would be nice to have another Justice to buffer any emergencies, but Mitch already accomplished the thing he needed to accomplish: create a conservative Supreme Court.

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red sox 777
01/31/20 5:00:49 PM
#421:


He's not losing his majority. The Senate favors Republicans in the long run because it gives greater representation to the small states. There are a lot of remaining Democratic senators in red states who will gradually lose their seats and we will ultimately reach a new equilibrium with the number of Republican seats floating around 60.

Unless the Democratic Party does some introspection and turns back from the brink - but I think it's already too late. The Democratic Party is already in the control of the coastal, urban, elitist, liberals. Bernie is their last chance to broaden the tent but they would sooner make Mitch McConnell president than Bernie.

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TheRock1525
01/31/20 5:01:48 PM
#422:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Doesn't even matter really. Would be nice to have another Justice to buffer any emergencies, but Mitch already accomplished the thing he needed to accomplish: create a conservative Supreme Court.
Until a Dem replaces Clarence Thomas.

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TheRock1525
01/31/20 5:03:35 PM
#423:


Jakyl25 posted...
In this context Im construing best politician as being best at getting his agenda through
What agenda did he get through? He blocked everything and got some judges. He got a shitty tax bill that will expire in a few years.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:04:42 PM
#424:


Trump expands his travel ban:

https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1223360124254814214?s=21

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red sox 777
01/31/20 5:04:54 PM
#425:


TheRock1525 posted...
What agenda did he get through? He blocked everything and got some judges. He got a shitty tax bill that will expire in a few years.

The tax cuts for the rich and corporations are permanent.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:06:15 PM
#426:


TheRock1525 posted...
What agenda did he get through? He blocked everything and got some judges. He got a shitty tax bill that will expire in a few years.
Lowering the bar into the center of the earth

No longer will shitty people have to pretend otherwise!

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Corrik7
01/31/20 5:07:35 PM
#427:


red sox 777 posted...
The tax cuts for the rich and corporations are permanent.
Smart to force them to keep it.

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red sox 777
01/31/20 5:10:56 PM
#428:


Yes, woe betide Democrats who want to let the tax cuts expire for the poor and middle class in 2025 while the continue in force for the rich. This is a great example of Mitch's foresightedness, actually.

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xp1337
01/31/20 5:11:14 PM
#429:


jesus this delay is because the WH wants them to shut it all down tonight not only no witnesses but no deliberation?

Apparently McConnell is trying to talk them off that? Hearing his initial plan had the final vote Wednesday (which I'm not sure I believe) tried to offer final vote Monday and is still being rebuffed?

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:15:16 PM
#430:


Lamar somehow makes it even clearer than last night that his conclusion is Trump did it but I just dont care:

https://twitter.com/katierogers/status/1223366576566566912?s=21

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Corrik7
01/31/20 5:16:23 PM
#431:


In Clinton's case, many said he did it but it wasn't impeachable.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:21:58 PM
#432:


Yeah, because he lied about getting a blowjob (something ever so slightly less serious than withholding 400 million bucks in military aid to coerce a foreign power into announcing a sham investigation of your most likely reelection opponent)

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pyresword
01/31/20 5:22:22 PM
#433:


For what it's worth I think a large part of the agenda that Republican voters want is simply to ensure the status quo is maintained.
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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:25:02 PM
#434:


Apparently this is going on?

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1223366118829690881?s=21

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Nelson_Mandela
01/31/20 5:25:07 PM
#435:


TheRock1525 posted...
Until a Dem replaces Clarence Thomas.
black don't crack

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xp1337
01/31/20 5:26:53 PM
#436:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Apparently this is going on?

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1223366118829690881?s=21
schumer just activated his trap card

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Kinglicious
01/31/20 5:32:47 PM
#437:


TheRock1525 posted...
What agenda did he get through? He blocked everything and got some judges. He got a shitty tax bill that will expire in a few years.

"Some judges" uh huh. Only got a metric ton of the third branch. Just a minor detail!

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Jakyl25
01/31/20 5:33:48 PM
#438:


Corrik7 posted...
In Clinton's case, many said he did it but it wasn't impeachable.


And thats what theyre saying now
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Grimlyn
01/31/20 5:36:15 PM
#439:


witness vote now

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Jakyl25
01/31/20 5:36:51 PM
#440:


Trump cannot be happy that even the people voting to acquit are calling the Perfect Phone Call inappropriate
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red sox 777
01/31/20 5:37:42 PM
#441:


Clarence Thomas isn't getting replaced with a Democrat. Even in the worst case, where a Republican loses a presidential election, he can retire and his successor can be confirmed between November and January. I would support appointing a 25-year-old who has just graduated from law school for maximum longevity.

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:41:20 PM
#442:


red sox 777 posted...
Clarence Thomas isn't getting replaced with a Democrat. Even in the worst case, where a Republican loses a presidential election, he can retire and his successor can be confirmed between November and January. I would support appointing a 25-year-old who has just graduated from law school for maximum longevity.
Youre just asking to be Soutered with that plan!

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Grimlyn
01/31/20 5:42:52 PM
#443:


and it's done

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 5:48:12 PM
#444:


Absolutely shameful

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red sox 777
01/31/20 5:50:30 PM
#445:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Youre just asking to be Soutered with that plan!

I'm fine with justices like Souter. I just don't like how the liberals nowadays tend to vote as a block. We've seen them vote as a block of 4 so many times, and the block of 5 liberals like to complain about so much doesn't show up nearly as often.

Also, I think young people should get some representation on the Supreme Court. For 200+ years, the high court has been dominated with old, experienced, jurists. We should try appointing a young person with no experience for a change. Just one. How much harm could he cause?

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red sox 777
01/31/20 6:15:13 PM
#446:


Congratulations to the United Kingdom for leaving the European Union. Long live freedom!

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SmartMuffin
01/31/20 6:18:58 PM
#447:


red sox 777 posted...
Congratulations to the United Kingdom for leaving the European Union. Long live freedom!

I'm really going to miss Nigel. His videos were the best. The US really has no equivalent. Trump gets close sometimes, but it's just not the same.

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Leafeon13N
01/31/20 6:22:09 PM
#448:


Jakyl25 posted...
Trump cannot be happy that even the people voting to acquit are calling the Perfect Phone Call inappropriate
They ceded that the President can do whatever he wants because he holds the opinion that whatever is best for him is best for the country.

I think the compromise of unlimited power is good enough for him.
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xp1337
01/31/20 6:25:25 PM
#449:


MSNBC reporting that Blunt told reporters that there's a deal that lays out this schedule:

Tonight: 4 Amendments
Off for the Weekend
Monday: Closing Arguments (6 hours total, 3 to each side)
Tuesday + Wednesday: Deliberations (Maybe public, not clear)
Wednesday: Final Vote

If true I'm shocked Schumer got the final vote after the SOTU. I'll take the most hollow, meaningless victories I can right now.

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Grimlyn
01/31/20 6:34:18 PM
#450:


but seriously fuck Bolton's book

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LordoftheMorons
01/31/20 6:37:42 PM
#451:


https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1223321307795939331?s=21

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