Current Events > The Star Wars prequels are actually movies not expensive fan fiction.

(+) Yeah! (+)

They are actually pretty good.

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said nobody ever (aside from Revenge of the Sith)

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Its like how when Lil Wayne came out we thought You know what? 50 Cent aint that bad.
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Even RotS was pretty bad.
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Movies normally have stuff like dialogue and directing, though.

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what makes the ST "fan fiction"?

knightoffire55 posted...

They are actually pretty good.

and I've got to disagree, but RotS is pretty decent.

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I don't like this whole thing with rewriting history. You don't have to prop up terrible movies just because you think the recent ones are bad. Just call them all awful and move on, no bullshit like "actually the prequels were good this whole time!"

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the first two are bad movies, but they at least have a story that build to ROTS and the OT.

the ST are well made movies that dont have a story at all to tell besides pew pew xwings and tie fighters and Death Stars again.

Prequels apologism is morally repugnant
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Prequels apologism is morally repugnant

Except RotS

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The Phantom Menace is my favorite musical.

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Revenge of the Sith has thematic depth that lasts all the way through Empire without diminishing

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BakonBitz posted...

I don't like this whole thing with rewriting history. You don't have to prop up terrible movies just because you think the recent ones are bad. Just call them all awful and move on, no bullshit like "actually the prequels were good this whole time!"

This pretty much.

It's okay to admit you like bad things a little more than other bad things. I find stubbing my toe to be better than grinding my testicles with a cheese grate, but that doesn't necessarily mean the former is validated if I experience the latter.

BakonBitz posted...

I don't like this whole thing with rewriting history. You don't have to prop up terrible movies just because you think the recent ones are bad. Just call them all awful and move on, no bullshit like "actually the prequels were good this whole time!"

It's like people are trying to actually create a Mandela Effect and convince the world that those movies were not always piping hot shit

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hockeybub89 posted...

It's like people are trying to actually create a Mandela Effect and convince the world that those movies were not always piping hot shit

Or they are just saying their opinion

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The "fan fiction" that has been created based off of the prequels (like the Clone Wars cartoon, Rebels, and Jedi: Fallen Order) is FAR better media than any of the three movies.

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ledbowman posted...

Or they are just saying their opinion

The Room is a really bad movie no matter how much someone may enjoy it.

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Prequels apologism is morally repugnant

Sometimes something so bad comes out it makes you realize that what was hated wasn't as bad as you now know it could've been.

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>The Phantom Menace
>Attack of the Clones
>pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI32_viWmQQ
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hockeybub89 posted...

The Room is a really bad movie no matter how much someone may enjoy it.

But we're talking about the prequels which aren't nearly that bad

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The dialogue of the prequel trilogy is closer to The Room than it is to the original and sequel trilogy if we're going to be real here.
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dave_is_slick posted...

Sometimes something so bad comes out it makes you realize that what was hated wasn't as bad as you now know it could've been.

In my eyes the sequel trilogy is nowhere near this bad to warrant this behavior though.

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dave_is_slick posted...

Sometimes something so bad comes out it makes you realize that what was hated wasn't as bad as you now know it could've been.

I mean we all know that Disney was devoid of love and care for the franchise, but love and care doesn't excuse the sycophantic nonsense that led to Lucas making mistakes.

Tommy Wiseau loves the hell out of his movie, but it's still a bad movie. Feeling is nice, but doesn't really change much on a fundamental level.

Smashingpmkns posted...

The dialogue of the prequel trilogy is closer to The Room than it is to the original and sequel trilogy if we're going to be real here.

Maybe if you cherry pick it out of some scenes. There's hours more that is right in line with the rest of Star Wars

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ledbowman posted...

Maybe if you cherry pick it out of some scenes. There's hours more that is right in line with the rest of Star Wars

Like the worst love story ever written?

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Like, it's kinda telling when the only positive thing that the prequels apparently have over the sequels is that they told a consistent story across all three of its movies. Never mind the other facets that actually make the prequels bad: mediocre acting, terrible and cringeworthy scriptwriting, overabundance of CG that doesn't hold up at all, characters that aren't likable at all (barring Obi-wan), battle choreography that falls apart as soon as you look at it, marketing them as a kid's franchise when most of the plot is boring political shit...no, forget all that, the prequels are good because the sequel trilogy was unfocused in its storytelling!

I don't even agree with the saying that the prequel trilogy was good because good things spawned from it. No, the Clone Wars cartoon, the Pod Racing game, any other stuff that spawned from PTs ideas were in spite of the prequels, not because of them. The only thing I'll agree with is that the soundtrack was fucking fantastic. But that's on John Williams. I'd much sooner just listen to the soundtrack than watch the movies if I get a hankering to listen to that music again, because it's great to listen to out-of-context.

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Garioshi posted...

Like the worst love story ever written?

The romance dialogue in AOTC is straight up bad, but it doesn't ruin the movie and is not indicative of the rest of the movie or trilogy

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BakonBitz posted...

In my eyes the sequel trilogy is nowhere near this bad to warrant this behavior though.

In my eyes there's no doubt that the ST is that bad. A trilogy with an actual endgoal is always better than what this shit was.

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I rewatched the prequels a few days ago and kept thinking how I couldn't believe people hate them so much. They're over all well made and enjoyable. The quality level is inconsistent and generally not as good as the OT, but not worthy of 20 years of venom and bile. I don't get it at all

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recency bias sure is a bitch

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BakonBitz posted...

Like, it's kinda telling when the only positive thing that the prequels apparently have over the sequels is that they told a consistent story across all three of its movies. Never mind the other facets that actually make the prequels bad: mediocre acting, terrible and cringeworthy scriptwriting, overabundance of CG that doesn't hold up at all, characters that aren't likable at all (barring Obi-wan), battle choreography that falls apart as soon as you look at it, marketing them as a kid's franchise when most of the plot is boring political shit...no, forget all that, the prequels are good because the sequel trilogy was unfocused in its storytelling!

I don't even agree with the saying that the prequel trilogy was good because good things spawned from it. No, the Clone Wars cartoon, the Pod Racing game, any other stuff that spawned from PTs ideas were in spite of the prequels, not because of them. The only thing I'll agree with is that the soundtrack was fucking fantastic. But that's on John Williams. I'd much sooner just listen to the soundtrack than watch the movies if I get a hankering to listen to that music again, because it's great to listen to out-of-context.

Idk. I wasnt in love with 1 and 2 but I never hated them for those reasons. I always could sit and watch the movies. Even when they come on tv today, I realize the CGI for the first 2 movies isnt the best but then I realize these movies are nearly 20 years old now.

At the time, that CGI was pretty impressive. A car made in 2000 isnt going to have the same impressive features as a 2020 car, despite them doing the same basic function, the safety features and entertainment features are far more advanced.

I guess Ive never been influenced by others to hate something just cause others do. I never hated the prequels. 3 was excellent, but the first two are watchable for me at least. I can overlook weird dialogue and bad CGI. But the story is at least solid and Im good with that.

ledbowman posted...

I rewatched the prequels a few days ago and kept thinking how I couldn't believe people hate them so much. They're over all well made and enjoyable. The quality level is inconsistent and generally not as good as the OT, but not worthy of 20 years of venom and bile. I don't get it at all

Because movies are static. Unless they released a version a version with touched up CG to bring it more in line with real and less jarring examples today, (actually, be thankful there weren't other cuts, because Lucas insisted on doing just this with the OT and it is painful) you can only judge it on what it is. Compare and contrast doesn't really change what is wrong. You can just grade qualities of wrong. Lucas had a goal, but insisted on taking a lot of bad routes to get there; Disney had no goal besides money and didn't give a damn how they got there. You can say one is better than the other, but that doesn't really excuse one or the other, you can just make peace with them and accept them for what they are.

dave_is_slick posted...

In my eyes there's no doubt that the ST is that bad. A trilogy with an actual endgoal is always better than what this shit was.

The Last Jedi imo was a logical and reasonable continuation of the plot points and characters from The Force Awakens, that for reasons I just don't get a certain section of the fanbase couldn't understand or accept. I'm yet to see it but by all accounts The Rise of Skywalker ended up the way it has because of all the whining of angry TLJ haters.

The prequels are a mess from what I remember.

p-m posted...

The Last Jedi imo was a logical and reasonable continuation of the plot points and characters from The Force Awakens, that for reasons I just don't get a certain section of the fanbase couldn't understand or accept.

Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.

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anyone who despises TLJ and actually thinks the prequels "weren't that bad" deserves to be laughed out of every future discussion

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Delirious_Beard posted...

recency bias sure is a bitch

So is 80s nostalgia. ROTJ isn't far from Phantom Menace territory but nobody said it raped their childhood

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BakonBitz posted...

Like, it's kinda telling when the only positive thing that the prequels apparently have over the sequels is that they told a consistent story across all three of its movies. Never mind the other facets that actually make the prequels bad: mediocre acting, terrible and cringeworthy scriptwriting, overabundance of CG that doesn't hold up at all, characters that aren't likable at all (barring Obi-wan), battle choreography that falls apart as soon as you look at it, marketing them as a kid's franchise when most of the plot is boring political shit...no, forget all that, the prequels are good because the sequel trilogy was unfocused in its storytelling!

I don't even agree with the saying that the prequel trilogy was good because good things spawned from it. No, the Clone Wars cartoon, the Pod Racing game, any other stuff that spawned from PTs ideas were in spite of the prequels, not because of them. The only thing I'll agree with is that the soundtrack was fucking fantastic. But that's on John Williams. I'd much sooner just listen to the soundtrack than watch the movies if I get a hankering to listen to that music again, because it's great to listen to out-of-context.

Pretty spot on.
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BakonBitz posted...

Like, it's kinda telling when the only positive thing that the prequels apparently have over the sequels is that they told a consistent story across all three of its movies.

Even this isn't really true tbh. The prequels feel like (because they are tbh) somebody had an endpoint they had to reach and worked backwards from that to fill out 3 movies of build up. Nobody can even succinctly explain the story of lack thereof of TPM. Anakin's arc is terribly done and actually shows him showing some redemptive points prior to turning to vader in rots. There's a whole broader point about the jedi attemptedly made which is kneecapped by awful writing and confused delivery. It's crazy people use these vague platitudes to defend them, as if the prequels weren't a huge Disney esque cash grab top

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ledbowman posted...

So is 80s nostalgia. ROTJ isn't far from Phantom Menace territory but nobody said it raped their childhood

honestly not wrong. the only good bits in RotJ are the throne room scenes, and even some of that occasionally succumbs to bad soap opera-isms


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p-m posted...

The Last Jedi imo was a logical and reasonable continuation of the plot points and characters from The Force Awakens,

Kylo Ren in TFA: religious obssession with Vader. The Dark Side is his ideology in much the same way the light side is portrayed as Luke's ideology.

Kylo Ren in TLJ: gets made fun of one time and says "fuck Vader, fuck the past"

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AlisLandale posted...

Kylo Ren in TFA: religious obssession with Vader. The Dark Side is his ideology in much the same way the light side is portrayed as Luke's ideology.

Kylo Ren in TLJ: gets made fun of one time and says "fuck Vader, fuck the past"

Finn in TFA: I shouldnt run away from things I care about and fight for what I believe in and stop being a coward

Finn in TLJ: I gotta run away cause Im a coward and leave as soon as I wake up (proceeds to have the same exact arc he already had in TFA)

XXmiznatorXX posted...

Finn in TFA: I shouldnt run away from things I care about and fight for what I believe in and stop being a coward

Finn in TLJ: I gotta run away cause Im a coward and leave as soon as I wake up (proceeds to have the same exact arc he already had in TFA)

In TLJ he's leaving to go find Rey, which is all ever cared about in TFA. It's Rose who teaches Finn to believe in the Resistance

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Han in TFA: "The Resistance is counting on us. The galaxy is counting on us."

Finn in TFA: "Look all I care about is getting Rey"

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Doom_Art posted...

Han in TFA: "The Resistance is counting on us. The galaxy is counting on us."

Finn in TFA: "Look all I care about is getting Rey"

tbf getting laid might trump the lives of millions of miserable assholes you've never met before. And arguably if the Republic was in that much of a sad state, did they really deserve heroes?

BlackJackCat posted...

getting laid might trump the lives of millions of miserable assholes you've never met before

Iunno if it was to get laid so much as she's literally the closest thing to a friend he's ever had apart from the dude who got shot at the beginning of the movie

Also Finn thinks the Resistance has no chance now that the New Republic is dead and he's well aware of what power the First Order possesses outside of Starkiller Base

BlackJackCat posted...

And arguably if the Republic was in that much of a sad state, did they really deserve heroes?

The great sin of the ST (specifically TFA) is not going into detail as to what an ineffective disaster the New Republic is

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ledbowman posted...

In TLJ he's leaving to go find Rey, which is all ever cared about in TFA. It's Rose who teaches Finn to believe in the Resistance

This is like arguing that the first half of Ghostbusters 2 is different from the original because "people claimed they were con artists and they had to win back the public's trust".

Yeah, the details are different, but it's the same damn arc. The Ghostbusters are a bunch of disrespected shlubs who put a business together, people are skeptical of them at first, but after a big bust they prove themselves and suddenly everyone loves them again.

Finn already learned to fight for something other than himself. Now it's just the Resistance instead of Rey. If you really need that difference to be spelled out for the audience, you could do it with a single line of dialogue that shows the connection between fighting for Rey and fighting for the Resistance as a whole.

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ledbowman posted...

In TLJ he's leaving to go find Rey, which is all ever cared about in TFA. It's Rose who teaches Finn to believe in the Resistance

Tbh the movie sucked his character so bad, I forgot his arc. They basically had Finn leave the stormtroopers to go chase Rey for 3 movies and he didnt even get with her.

>TPM can skip entire movie and you won't miss anything
>AotC 90% of the movie is CGI and you watch some creepy mf hit on this chick until she gives in because the script made her
>RotS we skipped the whole war, sorry. But here is Anakin still being a whiny git. Movie about to end in10 minutes Lucas forgot Anakin needed to turn into Vader.

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Doom_Art posted...

Iunno if it was to get laid so much as she's literally the closest thing to a friend he's ever had apart from the dude who got shot at the beginning of the movie

Honestly I felt like he might have been in it for more, it's been a while since I've seen TFA, but I just recall the couple of times I did see it that it felt like he was amorous for Rey, but it could just be general friendship too I guess. The thing is that this feels to me like Abrams was subtly lining up for this, and then Johnson was like "Naw, we're gonna introduce Rose and confuse this poor bastard even more."

Pity what happened to Kelly Marie Tran though. There honestly isn't much wonder why she was low-key in ROS. I guess the lesson here is don't confuse the issue with diverging direction.

Also Finn thinks the Resistance has no chance now that the New Republic is dead and he's well aware of what power the First Order possesses outside of Starkiller Base

The great sin of the ST (specifically TFA) is not going into detail as to what an ineffective disaster the New Republic is

The books have and by the time of TFA numerous systems have defected to the FO.

Several influential senators in the NR are covert members, there's rampant corruption and organized crime, the NR has no standing military, and "appeasement" seems to be the main policy of the current Supreme Chancellor

I'd say that justifies not being in a huge rush to aid the New Republic. Especially when the Fallen Order is Saturday morning cartoon villain tier at the end of the day. Good riddance. :D

Dampproof posted...

Movie about to end in10 minutes Lucas forgot Anakin needed to turn into Vader.

He was falling to the dark side the entire movie.

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