Current Events > 'The Rise of Skywalker' takes flight after the rise of the 'Star Wars' trolls

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AvantgardeAClue 12/14/19 5:45:31 AM #1:	https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/13/entertainment/star-wars-trolls-trnd/index.html The backlash against "The Last Jedi," the eighth movie in this particular series, turned inordinately vitriolic. While there are legitimate questions about how representative those voices are -- and indeed, what role Russian trolls and political provocateurs played in dragging the comments into the sewer -- the cacophony from social media has at times made it easier to simply tune out those voices rather than engage them. Still, writing in Esquire last year, Matt Miller lamented that a "loud section" of "Star Wars" fans have become "tragically synonymous" with hate and bigotry. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931566770] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/13/entertainment/star-wars-trolls-trnd/index.html The backlash against "The Last Jedi," the eighth movie in this particular series, turned inordinately vitriolic. While there are legitimate questions about how representative those voices are -- and indeed, what role Russian trolls and political provocateurs played in dragging the comments into the sewer -- the cacophony from social media has at times made it easier to simply tune out those voices rather than engage them. Still, writing in Esquire last year, Matt Miller lamented that a "loud section" of "Star Wars" fans have become "tragically synonymous" with hate and bigotry. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 12/14/19 5:49:23 AM #2:	Echoes of Ghostbusters (2016) --- "It was some post on the NFL board that got him." -AwesomeToTheMAX <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:931566814] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Echoes of Ghostbusters (2016) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sphyx 12/14/19 5:55:16 AM #3:	AvantgardeAClue posted... turned inordinately vitriolic lol --- You're so vain, You probably think this sig is about you. <cite>Sphyx posted [p:931566894] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>turned inordinately vitriolic</quote>lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SSJCAT 12/14/19 6:04:22 AM #4:	yea it was definitely all russia and wasnt just a bad movie --- PSN: SUPER_KITTY_JAM \| FC: SW-2262-4005-7054 \| Steam: SUPER_PO0PER <cite>SSJCAT posted [p:931567001] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>yea it was definitely all russia and wasnt just a bad movie </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iPhone_7 12/14/19 6:46:04 AM #5:	Its like Hillary still trying to blame everyone else but her for her loss. --- Sig User Logic https://imgur.com/lA5fm7w <cite>iPhone_7 posted [p:931567589] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Its like Hillary still trying to blame everyone else but her for her loss. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funkydog 12/14/19 6:49:23 AM #6:	Yeah, it was a bad film but the hate against it was especially toxic and full of racism and sexism, like it was from the moment Boyega was revealed. --- https://imgur.com/BGbZK <cite>Funkydog posted [p:931567635] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, it was a bad film but the hate against it was especially toxic and full of racism and sexism, like it was from the moment Boyega was revealed. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EffectAndCause 12/14/19 6:50:38 AM #7:	Star Wars nerds are among the oldest and saddest, they would review bomb something if Lukes fuckin robe is a different color or something. --- https://imgur.com/wMshiEN <cite>EffectAndCause posted [p:931567651] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Star Wars nerds are among the oldest and saddest, they would review bomb something if Lukes fuckin robe is a different color or something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Malfunction 12/14/19 7:07:44 AM #8:	Thomp you think Candace Owens is a respectable intelligent person tho so <cite>Malfunction posted [p:931567885] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Thomp you think Candace Owens is a respectable intelligent person tho so </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/14/19 5:58:00 PM #9:	Malfunction posted... Thomp you think Candace Owens is a respectable intelligent person tho so Why do you keep posting this whenever I have a hot take as if it's still true. You think I'm suddenly gonna shut up or something because you're working with outdated opinions EffectAndCause posted... Star Wars nerds are among the oldest and saddest, they would review bomb something if Lukes fuckin robe is a different color or something. Actually TLJ didn't get review bombed as it has several thousand less reviews than TFA, which has a markedly higher score --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931587171] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Malfunction posted... </cite> <quote>Thomp you think Candace Owens is a respectable intelligent person tho so</quote> Why do you keep posting this whenever I have a hot take as if it's still true. You think I'm suddenly gonna shut up or something because you're working with outdated opinions EffectAndCause posted... </cite> <quote>Star Wars nerds are among the oldest and saddest, they would review bomb something if Lukes fuckin robe is a different color or something.</quote> Actually TLJ didn't get review bombed as it has several thousand less reviews than TFA, which has a markedly higher score </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakonBitz 12/14/19 6:00:06 PM #10:	That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got. --- Game collection: http://www.backloggery.com/bakonbitz Gaming channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwVQm69J7bGScbv3_50C0dA <cite>BakonBitz posted [p:931587243] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AvantgardeAClue 12/14/19 6:04:19 PM #12:	BakonBitz posted... That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got. A study by Morten Bay, a research fellow at USC's Annenberg School for Communication, examined social media and found "evidence of deliberate, organized political influence measures disguised as fan arguments" about "The Last Jedi," in much the way outside elements have sought to further polarize political discourse. That's troubling, to the extent it's true. But it only stokes the sense that abusive quadrants of fandom don't speak with one coherent voice, can't be mollified, and there's not much sense in trying. The fact that they're trying to connect complaints to *deliberate, organized political influence measures* should say it all --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931587392] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>BakonBitz posted... </cite> <quote>That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got.</quote> A study by Morten Bay, a research fellow at USC's Annenberg School for Communication, examined social media and found "evidence of deliberate, organized political influence measures disguised as fan arguments" about "The Last Jedi," in much the way outside elements have sought to further polarize political discourse. That's troubling, to the extent it's true. But it only stokes the sense that abusive quadrants of fandom don't speak with one coherent voice, can't be mollified, and there's not much sense in trying. The fact that they're trying to connect complaints to deliberate, organized political influence measures should say it all </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HerpToTheDerp 12/14/19 6:12:03 PM #13:	its unfortunate that the altright was able to co-opt the fact that star wars sucks. tlj was bad. not because of the women and minority leads but they dont care. so long as it sucks theyll spout of whatever reasons they can. most people that think its bad dont even know why. <cite>HerpToTheDerp posted [p:931587674] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>its unfortunate that the altright was able to co-opt the fact that star wars sucks. tlj was bad. not because of the women and minority leads but they dont care. so long as it sucks theyll spout of whatever reasons they can. most people that think its bad dont even know why. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doom_Art 12/14/19 6:16:47 PM #14:	People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ --- Not removing this until Mega Man 64 is released on the Wii Virtual Console. Started on: 12/1/2009 https://imgur.com/mPvcy <cite>Doom_Art posted [p:931587835] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dave_is_slick 12/14/19 6:18:13 PM #15:	AvantgardeAClue posted... A study by Morten Bay, a research fellow at USC's Annenberg School for Communication, examined social media and found "evidence of deliberate, organized political influence measures disguised as fan arguments" about "The Last Jedi," in much the way outside elements have sought to further polarize political discourse. I call bullshit. --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM <cite>dave_is_slick posted [p:931587879] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>A study by Morten Bay, a research fellow at USC's Annenberg School for Communication, examined social media and found "evidence of deliberate, organized political influence measures disguised as fan arguments" about "The Last Jedi," in much the way outside elements have sought to further polarize political discourse.</quote>I call bullshit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dave_is_slick 12/14/19 6:20:57 PM #16:	Doom_Art posted... People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ They did not and you know this. Talk about bubbles... --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM <cite>dave_is_slick posted [p:931587975] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ</quote>They did not and you know this. Talk about bubbles... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HerpToTheDerp 12/14/19 6:22:04 PM #17:	honestly i think most people who like it dont even really like it that much. they probably just say it to spite bigots, righties, and other manchildren sw fans. like lmao how is star wars all of sudden good now? hint: its not. people only say it is because the people they dont like suddenly realized how bad it is. <cite>HerpToTheDerp posted [p:931588009] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>honestly i think most people who like it dont even really like it that much. they probably just say it to spite bigots, righties, and other manchildren sw fans. like lmao how is star wars all of sudden good now? hint: its not. people only say it is because the people they dont like suddenly realized how bad it is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doom_Art 12/14/19 6:22:47 PM #18:	dave_is_slick posted... They did not Opinions of most people I know are pretty much all positive with the most negative considering the film mildly disappointing. Most critical and aggregate reviews tend to be positive as well. One dude making dozens of YT videos about TLJ doesn't mean much --- Not removing this until Mega Man 64 is released on the Wii Virtual Console. Started on: 12/1/2009 https://imgur.com/mPvcy <cite>Doom_Art posted [p:931588027] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>dave_is_slick posted... </cite> <quote>They did not</quote> Opinions of most people I know are pretty much all positive with the most negative considering the film mildly disappointing. Most critical and aggregate reviews tend to be positive as well. One dude making dozens of YT videos about TLJ doesn't mean much </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OrdonGoatCheese 12/14/19 6:23:32 PM #19:	Russia? Really? --- Something, something, signature. <cite>OrdonGoatCheese posted [p:931588048] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Russia? Really? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dave_is_slick 12/14/19 6:24:31 PM #20:	Doom_Art posted... Opinions of most people I know are pretty much all positive with the most negative considering the film mildly disappointing. Again, what was that about bubbles? --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM <cite>dave_is_slick posted [p:931588078] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>Opinions of most people I know are pretty much all positive with the most negative considering the film mildly disappointing.</quote>Again, what was that about bubbles? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Catgirl Fondler 12/14/19 6:26:20 PM #21:	Some people just can't accept that there's legitimate criticisms to be made against the new trilogy. Ironically, this makes them the "new rabid Star Wars fanboys". They have literally become the monster. --- N/A <cite>The Catgirl Fondler posted [p:931588157] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Some people just can't accept that there's legitimate criticisms to be made against the new trilogy. Ironically, this makes them the "new rabid Star Wars fanboys". They have literally become the monster.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SocksForWok999 12/14/19 6:27:47 PM #22:	BakonBitz posted... That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got. I think theyre trying way too hard to have liked TLJ. --- iPhone 11 Pro Max / Ryzen 9 3950X / Sapphire Pulse RX5700 XT Steam: BloodFeasty / PSN: BloodFislandMan / XBL: EvoTech462 = Unbiased Gamer <cite>SocksForWok999 posted [p:931588198] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>BakonBitz posted... </cite> <quote>That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got.</quote> I think theyre trying way too hard to have liked TLJ. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/14/19 6:28:24 PM #23:	Doom_Art posted... People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ Do you have a sample size for "most of the public" or were you actually Rian Johnson all along Johnson said then -- and more recently in a GQ interview -- that such voices represent a small subset of the overall pool. Well of course he would say that, wouldn't be very positive PR to say "Idk why the majority fanbase doesn't like our new movie yet" "Most people I know" isn't quite the ideal sample size, because I know plenty of people from all walks of life who hated TLJ as much as I did, go figure. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931588215] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ</quote> Do you have a sample size for "most of the public" or were you actually Rian Johnson all along Johnson said then -- and more recently in a GQ interview -- that such voices represent a small subset of the overall pool. Well of course he would say that, wouldn't be very positive PR to say "Idk why the majority fanbase doesn't like our new movie yet" "Most people I know" isn't quite the ideal sample size, because I know plenty of people from all walks of life who hated TLJ as much as I did, go figure. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IShall_Run_Amok 12/15/19 12:22:20 AM #24:	Its pretty obvious that the majority of the nastier criticisms leveled against the movie don't hold up to scrutiny. Its just a lot easier to believe that fascists or whoever are chiefly behind a phony hate campaign, than it is to believe that all the mean spirited horse's asses were already mean spirited horse's asses, and that the fascists are just riding them. --- Fair enough, but I think everything you said is wrong and I hate you and you're crazy. <cite>IShall_Run_Amok posted [p:931601004] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Its pretty obvious that the majority of the nastier criticisms leveled against the movie don't hold up to scrutiny. Its just a lot easier to believe that fascists or whoever are chiefly behind a phony hate campaign, than it is to believe that all the mean spirited horse's asses were already mean spirited horse's asses, and that the fascists are just riding them. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MudKip_Master 12/15/19 4:57:22 AM #25:	Doom_Art posted... People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ Careful youngling, by that logic the Wii was a good console because the republic 'enjoyed' it too. <cite>MudKip_Master posted [p:931607666] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>People need to get over the fact that outside of their bubble most of the public enjoyed TLJ</quote> Careful youngling, by that logic the Wii was a good console because the republic 'enjoyed' it too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zero_Destroyer 12/15/19 5:11:04 AM #26:	https://www.cinemascore.com/ idk it's pretty obvious that TLJ was a critical/commercial success and actual polling firms (i.e. not review bombable sites) seem to back this up it's fine to not like the movie, i don't, and i don't agree that the hate campaign was done by russian bots. but living in an alternate reality where TLJ wasn't an enormous success outside of vocal internet circles isn't healthy for perspectives on reality. Rian Johnson is still a successful director (Knives Out has done well in all regards, including online review scores), TLJ made a lot of money, and audiences that were polled by an actual market research firm thought it was good, and I'll trust that way before I trust IMDB/RT/etc. when it comes to gauging the public's larger opinion. rise of skywalker's gonna be a disaster and maybe it'll actually be the one to bomb, but the internet rooting against Disney's soulless cashgrab remakes didn't stop them from also be commercial successes --- Enjoy movies and television? Check out my blog! I do reviews and analyses. http://fictionrantreview.wordpress.com/ (The Force Awakens spoiler review up!) <cite>Zero_Destroyer posted [p:931607856] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>https://www.cinemascore.com/ idk it's pretty obvious that TLJ was a critical/commercial success and actual polling firms (i.e. not review bombable sites) seem to back this up it's fine to not like the movie, i don't, and i don't agree that the hate campaign was done by russian bots. but living in an alternate reality where TLJ wasn't an enormous success outside of vocal internet circles isn't healthy for perspectives on reality. Rian Johnson is still a successful director (Knives Out has done well in all regards, including online review scores), TLJ made a lot of money, and audiences that were polled by an actual market research firm thought it was good, and I'll trust that way before I trust IMDB/RT/etc. when it comes to gauging the public's larger opinion. rise of skywalker's gonna be a disaster and maybe it'll actually be the one to bomb, but the internet rooting against Disney's soulless cashgrab remakes didn't stop them from also be commercial successes </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/15/19 5:12:57 AM #27:	Make no mistake Rise of Skywalker will make a fuckton of money That being said, Black Ops 4 made half a billion on the first day of release and it's the worst CoD in the past 10 years, go figure --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931607880] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Make no mistake Rise of Skywalker will make a fuckton of money That being said, Black Ops 4 made half a billion on the first day of release and it's the worst CoD in the past 10 years, go figure </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lorenzo_2003 12/15/19 5:52:39 AM #28:	AvantgardeAClue posted... Make no mistake Rise of Skywalker will make a fuckton of money That being said, Black Ops 4 made half a billion on the first day of release and it's the worst CoD in the past 10 years, go figure The better example is McDonalds. I hope no one has to explain why total sales or market share is not automatically a sign of a quality product or service. --- ... <cite>Lorenzo_2003 posted [p:931608357] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>Make no mistake Rise of Skywalker will make a fuckton of money That being said, Black Ops 4 made half a billion on the first day of release and it's the worst CoD in the past 10 years, go figure</quote> The better example is McDonalds. I hope no one has to explain why total sales or market share is not automatically a sign of a quality product or service. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NeonOctopus 12/15/19 5:56:05 AM #29:	This is why CNN is fake news I guess lol --- https://i.imgtc.ws/cCF89fl.gif https://i.imgtc.ws/LeYvR5c.gif https://i.imgtc.ws/eNZ2kfM.gif https://i.imgtc.ws/kFyHKqh.jpg https://i.imgtc.ws/eSmBjnF.png <cite>NeonOctopus posted [p:931608395] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>This is why CNN is fake news I guess lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YourDrunkFather 12/15/19 6:16:36 AM #30:	The way leftists are so protective over TLJ is so fucking weird --- One bourbon,one scotch,one beer <cite>YourDrunkFather posted [p:931608626] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>The way leftists are so protective over TLJ is so fucking weird </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 12/15/19 7:20:48 AM #31:	There's one unique aspect of the criticism of Star Wars in particular that has always mystified me, and that people seem to be bent on proving. And that's that the people who hated TLJ are legion. At that point it's not even about the movie. It's about trying to prove that one is "right" by virtue of enough people agreeing with them. And this desperate struggle to assure oneself "right", at least on this board, has led to very frequent topics (even over the drought period of summer 2018 to say summer 2019) of the kind I've never seen about any other franchise over the decades I've been on this board. And when there's a topic about Star Wars on this board, there will be people within it who will be saying how TLJ was awful. It's like a daily affirmation. People constantly reminding themselves and each other "It was bad. I'm right. I'm saying it to continue to make it right." like some kind of support group based around negativity. And I kinda get that. It was both a critical and a commercial success. Usually if there's a movie one thinks is bad, you either at least have the critics or the masses backing you up on that. In this case, there's neither. So, the typical grownup thing to do would be to realize "it just wasn't for me, and that's okay. There will be other movies." And I've seen that in a few people. Others not so much. BakonBitz posted... That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got. I'll be the first to point out: It's worth noting that this appraisal comes from someone who harbored plenty of misgivings about "The Last Jedi," in contrast to much of the critical establishment. Some of the reasoned complaints about the film and the choices made by writer-director Rian Johnson, to these ears, made perfect sense. Link in the article leads to their review. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:931609550] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>There's one unique aspect of the criticism of Star Wars in particular that has always mystified me, and that people seem to be bent on proving. And that's that the people who hated TLJ are legion. At that point it's not even about the movie. It's about trying to prove that one is "right" by virtue of enough people agreeing with them. And this desperate struggle to assure oneself "right", at least on this board, has led to very frequent topics (even over the drought period of summer 2018 to say summer 2019) of the kind I've never seen about any other franchise over the decades I've been on this board. And when there's a topic about Star Wars on this board, there will be people within it who will be saying how TLJ was awful. It's like a daily affirmation. People constantly reminding themselves and each other "It was bad. I'm right. I'm saying it to continue to make it right." like some kind of support group based around negativity. And I kinda get that. It was both a critical and a commercial success. Usually if there's a movie one thinks is bad, you either at least have the critics or the masses backing you up on that. In this case, there's neither. So, the typical grownup thing to do would be to realize "it just wasn't for me, and that's okay. There will be other movies." And I've seen that in a few people. Others not so much. BakonBitz posted... </cite> <quote>That article sounds like someone who really enjoyed TLJ and is upset at the reception it got.</quote>I'll be the first to point out: <quote>It's worth noting that this appraisal comes from someone who harbored plenty of misgivings about "The Last Jedi," in contrast to much of the critical establishment. Some of the reasoned complaints about the film and the choices made by writer-director Rian Johnson, to these ears, made perfect sense.</quote>Link in the article leads to their review. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doom_Art 12/15/19 9:47:14 AM #32:	CyricZ posted... And this desperate struggle to assure oneself "right", at least on this board, has led to very frequent topics (even over the drought period of summer 2018 to say summer 2019) of the kind I've never seen about any other franchise over the decades I've been on this board. Yep they gotta assure themselves they're in the majority, have to seek out that same opinion from others, make their opinion known at every opportunity, and interpret things so it looks like the cast and crew agree with them (looking at that weird Mark Hamill compilation). It's not about having an opinion it's about being right. Like I'm a lifelong Superman fan and I was hugely let down by BvS. I lost interest in the character and in the DCEU afterwards. I don't feel the need to constantly bring it up at every opportunity and actively continue hating it years later though --- Not removing this until Mega Man 64 is released on the Wii Virtual Console. Started on: 12/1/2009 https://imgur.com/mPvcy <cite>Doom_Art posted [p:931612355] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>And this desperate struggle to assure oneself "right", at least on this board, has led to very frequent topics (even over the drought period of summer 2018 to say summer 2019) of the kind I've never seen about any other franchise over the decades I've been on this board.</quote> Yep they gotta assure themselves they're in the majority, have to seek out that same opinion from others, make their opinion known at every opportunity, and interpret things so it looks like the cast and crew agree with them (looking at that weird Mark Hamill compilation). It's not about having an opinion it's about being right. Like I'm a lifelong Superman fan and I was hugely let down by BvS. I lost interest in the character and in the DCEU afterwards. I don't feel the need to constantly bring it up at every opportunity and actively continue hating it years later though </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Guns_of_Verdun 12/15/19 9:48:30 AM #33:	What does Candace Owens have to do with anything? --- https://imgur.com/VwJsmAR <cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted [p:931612383] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>What does Candace Owens have to do with anything? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IShall_Run_Amok 12/15/19 10:35:01 AM #34:	Zero_Destroyer posted... idk it's pretty obvious that TLJ was a critical/commercial success and actual polling firms (i.e. not review bombable sites) seem to back this up IMDb is a perfect example of this. It seems like almost every review of the film is negative on the site, almost certainly the first two or three dozen that you'll see, and it has way more reviews than the force awakens. But you don't have to review a movie to rate it on that site. It may have way more reviews than the force awakens, but it has far fewer user ratings, and the negative ratings are still very much in the minority. The regular users of that website, which has a much larger user base than Rotten Tomatoes, simply cannot be overwhelmed by the hate campaign, even if the campaign makes itself very well-known. --- Fair enough, but I think everything you said is wrong and I hate you and you're crazy. <cite>IShall_Run_Amok posted [p:931613660] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Zero_Destroyer posted... </cite> <quote>idk it's pretty obvious that TLJ was a critical/commercial success and actual polling firms (i.e. not review bombable sites) seem to back this up</quote>IMDb is a perfect example of this. It seems like almost every review of the film is negative on the site, almost certainly the first two or three dozen that you'll see, and it has way more reviews than the force awakens. But you don't have to review a movie to rate it on that site. It may have way more reviews than the force awakens, but it has far fewer user ratings, and the negative ratings are still very much in the minority. The regular users of that website, which has a much larger user base than Rotten Tomatoes, simply cannot be overwhelmed by the hate campaign, even if the campaign makes itself very well-known. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/15/19 8:34:13 PM #35:	Doom_Art posted... Yep they gotta assure themselves they're in the majority, have to seek out that same opinion from others, make their opinion known at every opportunity, and interpret things so it looks like the cast and crew agree with them (looking at that weird Mark Hamill compilation). It's not about having an opinion it's about being right. Like I'm a lifelong Superman fan and I was hugely let down by BvS. I lost interest in the character and in the DCEU afterwards. I don't feel the need to constantly bring it up at every opportunity and actively continue hating it years later though Here's some food for thought. RJ thinks that the detractors are the minority opinion. KK thinks the detractors are the minority opinion. You think the detractors are the minority opinion. If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the minority opinion, then why does this article exist, two years after its release? At this point, who are they trying to convince here? Certainly not people like me who believe that dissenting opinions =/= trolls, bigots, and fucking Russian bots. No, people are passionate about discussing it because if it were up to Disney, people should just consume product, don't ask questions, buy merchandise, and keep the gravy train rolling. Maybe you can argue that's all Star Wars is meant to be now, but it certainly wasn't that way until Disney got their hands on it. Sure, there are some overzealous individuals on that side, absolutely. But that doesn't suddenly mean that all legitimate complaints are null and void for either that or many of the other "get over it" reasons that are spewed around. CyricZ posted... So, the typical grownup thing to do would be to realize "it just wasn't for me, and that's okay. There will be other movies." And I've seen that in a few people. Others not so much. And by that same token, I've seen people routinely here trying to damage control a movie that they have no stake in besides maybe a few hours of distraction. And for some, that's perfectly okay. But you don't have a 30+ year franchise that consists of nothing but casual fans. Whole bodies of work have been rendered null and void in favor of Disney's vision. Whole gaming studios, author's novels, and entire expanded universes. And movies like those in the sequel trilogy are what's taking its place. Personally, I'm perfectly capable of enjoying things like Battlefront 2 (ironic considering how many rallied against this at launch), Jedi Fallen Order, and even The Mandalorian. But all roads lead to the movies, and if TRoS leaks are as true as I've read them are, it's not particularly hard to see that like with Game of Thrones season 8, numerous people have been feeling like their time and sometimes money investment into the sequel trilogy has been just another cog in the system for Disney. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931637817] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>Yep they gotta assure themselves they're in the majority, have to seek out that same opinion from others, make their opinion known at every opportunity, and interpret things so it looks like the cast and crew agree with them (looking at that weird Mark Hamill compilation). It's not about having an opinion it's about being right. Like I'm a lifelong Superman fan and I was hugely let down by BvS. I lost interest in the character and in the DCEU afterwards. I don't feel the need to constantly bring it up at every opportunity and actively continue hating it years later though</quote> Here's some food for thought. RJ thinks that the detractors are the minority opinion. KK thinks the detractors are the minority opinion. You think the detractors are the minority opinion. If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the minority opinion, then why does this article exist, two years after its release? At this point, who are they trying to convince here? Certainly not people like me who believe that dissenting opinions =/= trolls, bigots, and fucking Russian bots. No, people are passionate about discussing it because if it were up to Disney, people should just consume product, don't ask questions, buy merchandise, and keep the gravy train rolling. Maybe you can argue that's all Star Wars is meant to be now, but it certainly wasn't that way until Disney got their hands on it. Sure, there are some overzealous individuals on that side, absolutely. But that doesn't suddenly mean that all legitimate complaints are null and void for either that or many of the other "get over it" reasons that are spewed around. CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote> So, the typical grownup thing to do would be to realize "it just wasn't for me, and that's okay. There will be other movies." And I've seen that in a few people. Others not so much.</quote> And by that same token, I've seen people routinely here trying to damage control a movie that they have no stake in besides maybe a few hours of distraction. And for some, that's perfectly okay. But you don't have a 30+ year franchise that consists of nothing but casual fans. Whole bodies of work have been rendered null and void in favor of Disney's vision. Whole gaming studios, author's novels, and entire expanded universes. And movies like those in the sequel trilogy are what's taking its place. Personally, I'm perfectly capable of enjoying things like Battlefront 2 (ironic considering how many rallied against this at launch), Jedi Fallen Order, and even The Mandalorian. But all roads lead to the movies, and if TRoS leaks are as true as I've read them are, it's not particularly hard to see that like with Game of Thrones season 8, numerous people have been feeling like their time and sometimes money investment into the sequel trilogy has been just another cog in the system for Disney. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 12/15/19 10:12:40 PM #36:	It's about being right. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:931642645] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>It's about being right. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doom_Art 12/15/19 11:46:10 PM #37:	AvantgardeAClue posted... "get over it" I mean "get over it" is a perfectly valid response when you dislike something that ultimately has little to no effect on your life. If you disliked the direction the franchise took, then that's fine, but clearly a lot of other people disagree with you on that, and since it's a piece of entertainment, dwelling on it seems rather pointless. It's not "shut up and consume product" it's just being... normal about it? I guess? If you dislike an entertainment product or a luxury item then I dunno what else you're supposed to do. AvantgardeAClue posted... Whole bodies of work have been rendered null and void in favor of Disney's vision. Whole gaming studios, author's novels, and entire expanded universes. I can go to my local bookstore and by reprints of literally every single Star Wars book released before Disney bought the franchise. I can also read every SW comic published before 2012 And hey, this will sound super crazy to you, but I have nearly every major Star Wars game released before Disney bought the franchise on my Steam account. I can literally play them whenever I want. AvantgardeAClue posted... and if TRoS leaks are as true as I've read them are I remember people melting down over Endgame leaks. Forming an opinion over a movie that hasn't released yet is silly. AvantgardeAClue posted... have been feeling like their time and sometimes money investment into the sequel trilogy has been just another cog in the system for Disney. i mean that's literally what the relationship between a consumer and a company is they put out a product and you buy it what else are you expecting? a pat on the head and a gold star? --- Not removing this until Mega Man 64 is released on the Wii Virtual Console. Started on: 12/1/2009 https://imgur.com/mPvcy <cite>Doom_Art posted [p:931646577] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>"get over it"</quote>I mean "get over it" is a perfectly valid response when you dislike something that ultimately has little to no effect on your life. If you disliked the direction the franchise took, then that's fine, but clearly a lot of other people disagree with you on that, and since it's a piece of entertainment, dwelling on it seems rather pointless. It's not "shut up and consume product" it's just being... normal about it? I guess? If you dislike an entertainment product or a luxury item then I dunno what else you're supposed to do. AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>Whole bodies of work have been rendered null and void in favor of Disney's vision. Whole gaming studios, author's novels, and entire expanded universes.</quote>I can go to my local bookstore and by reprints of literally every single Star Wars book released before Disney bought the franchise. I can also read every SW comic published before 2012 And hey, this will sound super crazy to you, but I have nearly every major Star Wars game released before Disney bought the franchise on my Steam account. I can literally play them whenever I want. AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>and if TRoS leaks are as true as I've read them are</quote>I remember people melting down over Endgame leaks. Forming an opinion over a movie that hasn't released yet is silly. AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>have been feeling like their time and sometimes money investment into the sequel trilogy has been just another cog in the system for Disney.</quote>i mean that's literally what the relationship between a consumer and a company is they put out a product and you buy it what else are you expecting? a pat on the head and a gold star? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 12:35:20 AM #38:	Yeah it's sad that a lot of the people who whine incessantly about TLJ can't accept that it was well received --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931648244] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Yeah it's sad that a lot of the people who whine incessantly about TLJ can't accept that it was well received </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
De Evolution 12/16/19 12:38:28 AM #39:	dave_is_slick posted... I call bullshit. HerpToTheDerp posted... honestly i think most people who like it dont even really like it that much. they probably just say it to spite bigots, righties, and other manchildren sw fans. like lmao how is star wars all of sudden good now? hint: its not. people only say it is because the people they dont like suddenly realized how bad it is. Fuck Disney Star Wars and all its fanboys. --- Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void. Empty, and become wind. <cite>De Evolution posted [p:931648331] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>dave_is_slick posted... </cite> <quote>I call bullshit.</quote> HerpToTheDerp posted... </cite> <quote>honestly i think most people who like it dont even really like it that much. they probably just say it to spite bigots, righties, and other manchildren sw fans. like lmao how is star wars all of sudden good now? hint: its not. people only say it is because the people they dont like suddenly realized how bad it is.</quote> Fuck Disney Star Wars and all its fanboys. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
De Evolution 12/16/19 12:39:12 AM #40:	Lorenzo_2003 posted... The better example is McDonalds. I hope no one has to explain why total sales or market share is not automatically a sign of a quality product or service. --- Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void. Empty, and become wind. <cite>De Evolution posted [p:931648351] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Lorenzo_2003 posted... </cite> <quote>The better example is McDonalds. I hope no one has to explain why total sales or market share is not automatically a sign of a quality product or service.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 12:44:08 AM #41:	^ It is a sign people like something --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931648516] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>^ It is a sign people like something </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/16/19 2:03:45 AM #42:	Doom_Art posted... I mean "get over it" is a perfectly valid response when you dislike something that ultimately has little to no effect on your life. What a nihilistic, cynical approach to modern entertainment. Keyword, entertain. If there was no incentive to improve the entertainment, then there would be no reason to continue putting money into it. Retail sales have been on the decline since TFA and moreso with TLJ. Solo actually bombed in the long run. My individual purchase of any Star Wars content may not mean much, but on a bigger scale, it'll start to hurt. Some people may be a little more outspoken about it than the likes of me, but the ones who just straight up gave up on the franchise are probably the biggest casualties of this entire thing. I've seen people who preordered tickets to TLJ that have zero interest in seeing TRoS. People are quick to say that this series isn't made in favor of them anymore, but the fact still remains that it used to feel like it was, and something changed along the way for that to happen. Doom_Art posted... I can go to my local bookstore and by reprints of literally every single Star Wars book released before Disney bought the franchise. I can also read every SW comic published before 2012 And? Them being still in-print is not the issue here. I can virtually do the same on a Kindle. The issue is that all of the EU content is not only now officially glorified fanfiction instead of being part of a larger world, but KK's Freudian excuse of "not enough original source material" completely falls flat in the face of it all. Doom_Art posted... And hey, this will sound super crazy to you, but I have nearly every major Star Wars game released before Disney bought the franchise on my Steam account. I can literally play them whenever I want. Believe it or not, that's pretty much something I'd expect from someone who is in favor of the ST. "I've been here there and now, and I like the now. Nothing's wrong with the now!" Hell, it would've been even weirder if you did have Battlefront 2. Doom_Art posted... I remember people melting down over Endgame leaks. Forming an opinion over a movie that hasn't released yet is silly. You before a TLJ released: Just wait before it comes out before you form an opinion After TLJ released: Well people liked it a lot so don't you feel in the wrong here Those leaks sounded absolutely awful and JJ are not the Russos. If ~~Rey actually calls herself a Skywalker to a stranger~~ in order to oblige the title then I don't think watching it in person is going to change how stupid that is gonna feel. ledbowman posted... Yeah it's sad that a lot of the people who whine incessantly about TLJ can't accept that it was well received Didn't I just mention how even trash like Black Ops 4 will be consumed in great volumes regardless of quality? A lot of reviewers are also inclined to give favorable reviews or risk losing Disney reviewer benefits. This is nothing new to the industry. Doom_Art posted... i mean that's literally what the relationship between a consumer and a company is they put out a product and you buy it Didn't you just say this wasn't "shut up and consume product"? Part of being a consumer is being able to give feedback when the consumer believes something is wrong with the product. Restaurant food tastes off, consumer asks for something to be changed, company usually obliges the change. Game is bugged, the consumer gives feedback. Company improves game. Why should this be any different with Star Wars, especially when Disney views it as another IP at the end of the day? Movie sucks, consumer gives feedback, next movie undergoes some saving throws. But the changes don't happen if people pretend that everything went well. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931650741] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>I mean "get over it" is a perfectly valid response when you dislike something that ultimately has little to no effect on your life.</quote> What a nihilistic, cynical approach to modern entertainment. Keyword, entertain. If there was no incentive to improve the entertainment, then there would be no reason to continue putting money into it. Retail sales have been on the decline since TFA and moreso with TLJ. Solo actually bombed in the long run. My individual purchase of any Star Wars content may not mean much, but on a bigger scale, it'll start to hurt. Some people may be a little more outspoken about it than the likes of me, but the ones who just straight up gave up on the franchise are probably the biggest casualties of this entire thing. I've seen people who preordered tickets to TLJ that have zero interest in seeing TRoS. People are quick to say that this series isn't made in favor of them anymore, but the fact still remains that it used to feel like it was, and something changed along the way for that to happen. Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>I can go to my local bookstore and by reprints of literally every single Star Wars book released before Disney bought the franchise. I can also read every SW comic published before 2012</quote> And? Them being still in-print is not the issue here. I can virtually do the same on a Kindle. The issue is that all of the EU content is not only now officially glorified fanfiction instead of being part of a larger world, but KK's Freudian excuse of "not enough original source material" completely falls flat in the face of it all. Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote> And hey, this will sound super crazy to you, but I have nearly every major Star Wars game released before Disney bought the franchise on my Steam account. I can literally play them whenever I want.</quote> Believe it or not, that's pretty much something I'd expect from someone who is in favor of the ST. "I've been here there and now, and I like the now. Nothing's wrong with the now!" Hell, it would've been even weirder if you did have Battlefront 2. Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>I remember people melting down over Endgame leaks. Forming an opinion over a movie that hasn't released yet is silly.</quote> You before a TLJ released: Just wait before it comes out before you form an opinion After TLJ released: Well people liked it a lot so don't you feel in the wrong here Those leaks sounded absolutely awful and JJ are not the Russos. If Rey actually calls herself a Skywalker to a stranger in order to oblige the title then I don't think watching it in person is going to change how stupid that is gonna feel. ledbowman posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah it's sad that a lot of the people who whine incessantly about TLJ can't accept that it was well received</quote> Didn't I just mention how even trash like Black Ops 4 will be consumed in great volumes regardless of quality? A lot of reviewers are also inclined to give favorable reviews or risk losing Disney reviewer benefits. This is nothing new to the industry. Doom_Art posted... </cite> <quote>i mean that's literally what the relationship between a consumer and a company is they put out a product and you buy it </quote> Didn't you just say this wasn't "shut up and consume product"? Part of being a consumer is being able to give feedback when the consumer believes something is wrong with the product. Restaurant food tastes off, consumer asks for something to be changed, company usually obliges the change. Game is bugged, the consumer gives feedback. Company improves game. Why should this be any different with Star Wars, especially when Disney views it as another IP at the end of the day? Movie sucks, consumer gives feedback, next movie undergoes some saving throws. But the changes don't happen if people pretend that everything went well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 2:19:58 AM #43:	AvantgardeAClue posted... Didn't I just mention how even trash like Black Ops 4 will be consumed in great volumes regardless of quality? Because they like it. People liked TLJ. Just accept it. It's ok to disagree with the majority --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931651098] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>Didn't I just mention how even trash like Black Ops 4 will be consumed in great volumes regardless of quality?</quote> Because they like it. People liked TLJ. Just accept it. It's ok to disagree with the majority </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/16/19 2:22:27 AM #44:	ledbowman posted... Because they like it. People liked TLJ. Just accept it. It's ok to disagree with the majority I have no problem accepting that it's a "majority" opinion, where does this keep coming from? No, I take issue when people try to convince me that there's something off about the people who disliked the movie, rather than the movie itself. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931651161] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>ledbowman posted... </cite> <quote>Because they like it. People liked TLJ. Just accept it. It's ok to disagree with the majority</quote> I have no problem accepting that it's a "majority" opinion, where does this keep coming from? No, I take issue when people try to convince me that there's something off about the people who disliked the movie, rather than the movie itself. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 2:31:56 AM #45:	AvantgardeAClue posted... I have no problem accepting that it's a "majority" opinion, where does this keep coming from? Because you say stuff like AvantgardeAClue posted... RJ thinks that the detractors are the minority opinion. KK thinks the detractors are the minority opinion. You think the detractors are the minority opinion. If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the minority opinion, then why does this article exist --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931651343] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>I have no problem accepting that it's a "majority" opinion, where does this keep coming from?</quote> Because you say stuff like AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote>RJ thinks that the detractors are the minority opinion. KK thinks the detractors are the minority opinion. You think the detractors are the minority opinion. If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the minority opinion, then why does this article exist</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/16/19 2:35:12 AM #46:	I don't see how any of that has to do with the idea that I can't accept another opinion. This article would not exist if people indeed felt that TLJ detractors were in fact the "vocal minority", that's the point I was getting at. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931651418] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>I don't see how any of that has to do with the idea that I can't accept another opinion. This article would not exist if people indeed felt that TLJ detractors were in fact the "vocal minority", that's the point I was getting at. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 2:41:23 AM #47:	Goalposts moved to "vocal minority" lol --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931651577] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Goalposts moved to "vocal minority" lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/16/19 2:43:57 AM #48:	ledbowman posted... Goalposts moved to "vocal minority" lol 6 hours ago... AvantgardeAClue posted... If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the [vocal] minority opinion, then why does this article exist, two years after its release? I didn't move shit, you're trying to prove something that isn't there. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931651622] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>ledbowman posted... </cite> <quote>Goalposts moved to "vocal minority" lol</quote> 6 hours ago... AvantgardeAClue posted... </cite> <quote> If the opinion of Last Jedi being trash is the [vocal] minority opinion, then why does this article exist, two years after its release?</quote> I didn't move shit, you're trying to prove something that isn't there. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ledbowman 12/16/19 2:45:23 AM #49:	Lol sad --- I wish we all waved <cite>ledbowman posted [p:931651652] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Lol sad </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 12/16/19 2:47:01 AM #50:	Did something sorrowful just happen right now, besides your passion for TLJ being on full display anyways? Oh, I know. It was Daisy Ridley completely negating another lovely character from movie, DJ. https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eb6bfj/daisy_sums_up_the_deep_themes_of_tlj_pretty/ --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:931651694] in 'The Rise ... [t:78253850]...</cite> <quote>Did something sorrowful just happen right now, besides your passion for TLJ being on full display anyways? Oh, I know. It was Daisy Ridley completely negating another lovely character from movie, DJ. https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eb6bfj/daisy_sums_up_the_deep_themes_of_tlj_pretty/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > 'The Rise of Skywalker' takes flight after the rise of the 'Star Wars' trolls (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > 'The Rise of Skywalker' takes flight after the rise of the 'Star Wars' trolls