Current Events > Box Office Disappointment: Is Terminator done? (MAJOR SPOILERS posted freely)

(+) Yeah! (+)

With a projected $27 million opening weekend against a $470 budget, it doesn't look as if Dark Fate is likely to make its money back. Who or what is to blame?

Best Option -- The film failed because of loyalty to John Connor.
Worst Option -- The film failed because of sexism.
Middle Option -- The film failed because people are burnt out / lack trust after bad sequels.

Ideally, I'd like to think that the film's poor returns are out of loyalty to John Connor and the first two movies. In killing off a child John Connor in the opening scene, the movie pisses upon the ashes of Terminator 1 and T2. If people got wind of the polarizing spoiler and decided to pass, I'd consider their decision fully justified. The worst case scenario is that people passed on the film because of sexism. They saw women occupying traditionally male action hero roles and grew... butthurt. Or maybe they assumed the film would be politically charged -- which is still highly suspect to assume simply on account of the fact that the leads are women. And if Connor loyalty is the winning option, and sexism the losing option, then I guess the "draw" would be people passing because they got burnt out on the franchise or felt they couldn't trust them; each sequel or reboot promising to be the next T2 and failing.

Which do you think is to blame for the diminishing returns? Or is it something else altogether? Furthermore, where does this leave the series? Will we see a sequel in spite of the box office decline which sees Dani as the new John Connor or will the franchise lie dormant for a while before an eventual remake?

Every Terminator movie since the 2nd has been worse than the one before it and people don't care anymore.
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It was done after T2
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Skye Reynolds posted...

against a $470 [million] budget,

Where exactly did you get that number?
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Its because it didnt have Emilia Clarke.
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You'd think 2 decades of awful sequels would be the main contributor with the latest one being fairly recent. The only semi-decent thing the franchise has done since T2 got cancelled just as it got interesting.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

against a $470 [million] budget,

Where exactly did you get that number?

Tons of articles. They only made $30 back opening weekend. Theyre sunk.
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I like that "The film was bad" isn't an option
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does this topic even need to be made?

It mostly comes from everyone putting T2 on such a high pedestal for so long (not without good reason, mind you) that they just reject any deviation from it, but I put a lot of blame on the alt-right's nonstop whining about the fact that the main characters are women (and straight-up lying about the movie).
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WerewolfPaws posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

against a $470 [million] budget,

Where exactly did you get that number?

Tons of articles. They only made $30 back opening weekend. Theyre sunk.

Tons of articles describing a $470 million budget?
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I like that "The film was bad" isn't an option

Skye Reynolds posted...

Which do you think is to blame for the diminishing returns? Or is it something else altogether?

I think it's because the movies have been shit since T2, and it absolutely doesn't help that they kill off actual John Connor in the opening fucking scene just to replace him.

I will never ever understand media's desire to bring back beloved characters that have been missing from the series for years only to kill them off. It's like they get off on possibly upsetting millions of people.
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i've been saying "did we really need another Terminator movie?" for well over a decade now
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Skye Reynolds posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I like that "The film was bad" isn't an option

Skye Reynolds posted...

Which do you think is to blame for the diminishing returns? Or is it something else altogether?

And yet it should still have been presented as one of the main reasons since it is usually the main reason films actually fail.

I've seen nothing to indicate a $470 million budget.

But I would chalk its failure up to a complete lack of trust in the franchise. The Terminator franchise hasn't had a good movie since 1992.

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Wow, that's a shockingly low number, all things considered. I think there's just been too many reboot attempts which all failed to live up to T2... that makes it hard to feel invested in the story and the characters. Only the TV series managed to make me care again, and that had the rug pulled out from under it just as it was starting to peak.
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The movies after T2 are trash idk how that's hard to get.

Crappy reworks of T2 and they're boring.
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Personally, this franchise has been done since Judgement Day.

I don't know why they even bother with this shit.
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Every person i talked to said the reason they sont watch it has to specifically do to the burn out. Every single terminator movie since T2 has been trash. There has been so many attempts to restore this series to its glory that it actually just shits on itself. Theres no redemption for this series, just let it die for goodness sakes.
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Having not seen the movie but read through the wiki,

So the T-800 in the movie kills John Connor and complete its mission then.... gets bored, grows a conscience, and decides on its own that its a good guy now?

Sounds lame

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

against a $470 [million] budget,

Where exactly did you get that number?

I don't know about that being the budget, but typically double the budget is what's required to break even.
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Delirious_Beard posted...

i've been saying "did we really need another Terminator movie?" for well over a decade now

We do, however, need another Twins movie.

$470 budget

What?

This is including marketing, right? Even then that'll still be fucking ridiculous and most likely inaccurate.

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The reason I wasn't feeling this movie was them killing john. It makes the first two movies useless. Oh we have to save this leader. Then he gets kill only for other robot to become skynet and start doing the same thing thing.

It is just like Star Wars to me. Don't bank on my nostalgia to get me in the door, then kill things I love, and look at me cross when I get upset. If they wanted something new make something new.

And killing him when he was a kid come on man. If he was that senator John, and he he was killed it might have been better. Still messed up but ok. But killing Kid john fuck that.
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Who really gives a fuck about John Connor? He was nonexistent in 1, whiny in 2, lame in 3, boring in Salvation, and fucked up (and evil!) in Genisys. Good riddance.

The movie was better than most of the others anyway. It's Terminator 3 done right.

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Multiple sequels, especially to classic movies past the initial one, are incredibly difficult for any story to do of any kind, especially if it wasn't the plan going into the first film and thus everything that follows will always feel a bit disjointed. Like, you can count on one hand the classic films out there that have good sequels, let alone once you get to the third+ movie. Especially in a time where everything is getting rebooted or sequels and thus nothing feels authentic and seems like a cheap cash grab.

So I think regardless of the story for this movie, people were going to be disappointed and likely not give much of a shit about it.

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jumi posted...

Who really gives a fuck about John Connor? He was nonexistent in 1, whiny in 2, lame in 3, boring in Salvation, and fucked up (and evil!) in Genisys. Good riddance.

The movie was better than most of the others anyway. It's Terminator 3 done right.

It makes the same mistake as Terminator 3. Only instead of needless killing Sarah Connor, it needlessly kills John Connor.

i unwittingly saw it today because i got the wrong showtimes for The Lighthouse and had to wait ~3 hours

I thought it was fine. Didn't grow up with The Terminator so I don't really care that they killed John Connor. Obviously after three sequels focusing on him wasn't working they decided to go "fuck it" in an entirely different direction.

The actual problem I had with the movie was the editing. I thought the script/performances were fine, the characters made sense, and since it treated them with some level of care outside of the opening twist (unlike, say, TLJ) it ended up giving the characters what felt like complete arcs.

My outsider status on the franchise is probably why I don't feel that strongly about it. The Lighthouse was obviously way better lmao
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Skye Reynolds posted...

It makes the same mistake as Terminator 3. Only instead of needless killing Sarah Connor, it needlessly kills John Connor.

One of these days, everyone will realize that only Red Dwarf can get away with intentionally not having continuity.

The commercials look extremely cringy. At this point, it seems like it'll do worse than Genisys.

Genisys was garbage, but I did kind of enjoy both the T-3000 and reality hopping T-5000 played by Matt Smith. Emilia was a bad Sarah, but she did look pretty damn hot. Arnold was also great.

I was really looking forward to having Hamilton back, but it seems like they really fucked it up.

Honestly, Salvation is the only bad Terminator movie. The rest of the post T2 movies are fine but nothing special. The Terminator franchise is a bit like the Star Wars franchise. The original run (SW trilogy, T1 and 2) were immensely popular but the lore and world in those franchises were never deep enough to justify more and more movies, and the constant attempt to rekindle the magic just struggles to get there..
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InfinityMonster posted...

The commercials look extremely cringy. At this point, it seems like it'll do worse than Genisys.

Genisys was garbage, but I did kind of enjoy both the T-3000 and reality hopping T-5000 played by Matt Smith. Emilia was a bad Sarah, but she did look pretty damn hot. Arnold was also great.

I was really looking forward to having Hamilton back, but it seems like they really fucked it up.

She does a good job in the film. There's only one cringy line of dialogue and it isn't hers.

The three protagonists each have their own strengths and limitations. Nothing's handed to them, nor do they always get along. They're written the way heroes should be written. They're not just experts at everything and totally unified because Grrrl Power.

WerewolfPaws posted...

Tons of articles. They only made $30 back opening weekend. Theyre sunk.

The film's budget was approximately $185-$196 million, mostly split three ways between Skydance, Paramount Pictures, and 20th Century Fox

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It was a bad movie that came after a string of other bad movies
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The_OD posted...

WerewolfPaws posted...

Tons of articles. They only made $30 back opening weekend. Theyre sunk.

The film's budget was approximately $185-$196 million, mostly split three ways between Skydance, Paramount Pictures, and 20th Century Fox

Production budget is typically only half the cost, though. Im not seeking to substantiate OPs claim, but its easy to believe after marketing. The ads are everywhere, and this was sort of the franchises last chance.
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Its basically the same setting, all in the present with the terminators coming from the future.

I want it to be set in the future with the war against the robots already.
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The spoilers killed any desire I had to see it

In killing off a child John Connor in the opening scene

Wait, I heard Ed Furlong was in this movie not true?
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cjsdowg posted...

The reason I wasn't feeling this movie was them killing john. It makes the first two movies useless. Oh we have to save this leader. Then he gets kill only for other robot to become skynet and start doing the same thing thing.

It is just like Star Wars to me. Don't bank on my nostalgia to get me in the door, then kill things I love, and look at me cross when I get upset. If they wanted something new make something new.

And killing him when he was a kid come on man. If he was that senator John, and he he was killed it might have been better. Still messed up but ok. But killing Kid john fuck that.

Its 1000% this. Rendering previous stories as completely pointless....people become invested in these characters and are just asked to accept that all of their heroic deeds and sacrifices were worth absolutely nothing.

It seems like it's basically a remake.

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Skye Reynolds posted...

against a $470 budget

oh seems they didnt spend all of it

googled the budget and it was aroun d186 m
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They will never top part 1 or 2, but it was going okay until T5. That's the movie that made me start hating the series. Then in part 6, when I saw the trailer, all it had was a bunch of not funny hipster humor and seemed like the whole point of the movie was going to be to keep the old characters in the background in an attempt to promote the new ones.

So basically, Star Wars Episode 8, but with Terminator characters.

Only way I want to see another film is if they finally show us the war between the humans and the machines. Kind of funny how they talked about it for the first 5 movies but still haven't shown us? Would love to see Kyle Reese and John finally team up to battle the machines. I can't comment on this new film yet because I'm waiting for Red Box, but I'm not expecting it to be great or taking it seriously. I will mainly watch it for laughs.

since you posted spoilers, figured i would post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl6ejhbyMiI

The franchise was finished like three misbegotten T2-sequels ago. It might have stood a chance if they'd ever actually picked a canon T2-sequel, stuck with it, and continued forward from there, but instead they keep trying to chase perfection and, predictably, never achieve it.

That said, let's not kid ourselves. T:DF is incel-bait, and the incels took that bait hook, line, and sinker. The entire brouhaha ocer the movie is nothing but pure incel BS, and this was probably the intent of the filmmakers. Problem is, you can't actually sustain a movie's marketing on pissing off incels alone: it won't kill interest in a big film, but neither will it hype up a film that wasn't generating buzz on its own merits. And as results go, that probaly won't please anybody: it deprives the incels of their power fantasies and their persecution complex, but it does the same to their opposition.

People just weren't asking for yet another T3. John Connor wouldn't have saved this film either; people are not "loyal" like that. The fans are just burnt out.
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If we somehow get another one, I want a Danny Devito Terminator.

EvenSpoonier posted...

The franchise was finished like three misbegotten T2-sequels ago. It might have stood a chance if they'd ever actually picked a canon T2-sequel, stuck with it, and continued forward from there, but instead they keep trying to chase perfection and, predictably, never achieve it.

That said, let's not kid ourselves. T:DF is incel-bait, and the incels took that bait hook, line, and sinker. The entire brouhaha ocer the movie is nothing but pure incel BS, and this was probably the intent of the filmmakers. Problem is, you can't actually sustain a movie's marketing on pissing off incels alone: it won't kill interest in a big film, but neither will it hype up a film that wasn't generating buzz on its own merits. And as results go, that probaly won't please anybody: it deprives the incels of their power fantasies and their persecution complex, but it does the same to their opposition.

People just weren't asking for yet another T3. John Connor wouldn't have saved this film either; people are not "loyal" like that. The fans are just burnt out.

I disagree. Had they made John the main character and brought back Edward Furlong, I would have gone to see it. That would have been cool to see the original John Connor back.

But after seeing that trailer, no thanks.

Rypt posted...

That would have been cool to see the original John Connor back.

Old Furlong, old Hamilton, old Schwarzenegger, and old Robert Patrick would be a perfect gen-x-bait Terminator film.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

The Lighthouse was obviously way better lmao

I hate that I don't have anybody to see this with. I really wanna watch it, but I definitely don't want to go by myself.
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