Current Events > Syria declared war on Turkey.

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheDyslexicGuy posted...

Obama broke wayyyyyy more campaign promises than Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA" data-time="
---

DarkRoast posted...

Crepes posted...

Well as much hate as Saddam got he managed to keep things pretty well run through fear.

When his sons weren't enjoying themselves literally gassing entire cities of minorities.

It's like Mussolini's "at least the trains are on time" analogy

You mean Iran right.
---

Crepes posted...

You mean Iran right.

Just to give some examples of Uday's day to day atrocities:

As head of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, Uday oversaw the imprisonment and torture of Iraqi athletes who were deemed not to have performed to expectations. He would insult athletes who performed below his expectations by calling them dogs and monkeys to their faces.[24] One defector reported that imprisoned football players were forced to kick a concrete ball after failing to reach the 1994 FIFA World Cup finals.[25] The Iraqi national football team were seen with their heads shaved after failing to achieve a good result in a tournament in the 1980s. Another defector claimed that athletes were dragged through a gravel pit and then immersed in a sewage tank to induce infection in their wounds.[12] After Iraq lost 41 to Japan in the quarter finals of the 2000 AFC Asian Cup in Lebanon, goalkeeper Hashim Khamis Hassan, defender Abdul-Jabar Hashim Hanoon and forward Qahtan Chathir Drain were labelled as guilty of loss and eventually flogged for three days by Uday's security.[25]
Other allegations include:
Uday was known to intrude on parties and otherwise "discover" women whom he would later rape. Time published an article in 2003 detailing his sexual brutality.[4][21]
Usage of an iron maiden on persons running afoul of him.[26]
Beating an army officer unconscious when the man refused to allow Uday to dance with his wife; the man later died of his injuries. Uday also shot and killed an army officer who did not salute him.[12]
Stealing approximately 1,200 luxury vehicles, including a Rolls-Royce Corniche valued at over $200,000.[citation needed]
Plotting, in 2000, to assassinate Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress. This was done shortly after Saddam named his younger son, Qusay, heir-apparent to the dictatorship. Uday allegedly intended to curry favour with his father through the assassination.[27]


---

teepan95 posted...

I'm not finding anything on this online

this.

i'm not seeing anything about the Syrian government declaring full war on Turkey in retaliation.
---

Yeah, most of it is just about how hundreds of ISIS fighters have escaped.
---

This is all Trump's fault for not leaving our boys in the middle and dying for no reason?

Get America OUT of the middle east already, we have no stake in anything over there. I just find it funny how people blame Trump over no Americans dying over two countries having war with each other. If the 50 or 1000 died between Syria and turkey he'd have alot more on his shoulders over why he didn't move then in time.

The warning signs from turkey came, we got out. You want Americans to die for Kurds in Syria? Nope, no American should die outside our borders IMO. Also, I don't know any real conservative in my life who wants war with Iran or north Korea under any circumstance.
---

darkprince45 posted...

Why is it a bad thing that US Troops are leaving another stupid endless battle in the Middle East. You guys were so vocal during bushs and Obamas terms about it. Now theyre out and people are still mad

Because we are abandoning a regional ally that has been with us since we invaded Iraq. Literally opening the floodgates and letting them drown in a sea of Turkish lead bullets. And, as you can see, making the conflict even worse. And the withdrawal was made using blatantly false lies as justification.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Crepes posted...

You mean Iran right.

Just to give some examples of Uday's day to day atrocities:

As head of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, Uday oversaw the imprisonment and torture of Iraqi athletes who were deemed not to have performed to expectations. He would insult athletes who performed below his expectations by calling them dogs and monkeys to their faces.[24] One defector reported that imprisoned football players were forced to kick a concrete ball after failing to reach the 1994 FIFA World Cup finals.[25] The Iraqi national football team were seen with their heads shaved after failing to achieve a good result in a tournament in the 1980s. Another defector claimed that athletes were dragged through a gravel pit and then immersed in a sewage tank to induce infection in their wounds.[12] After Iraq lost 41 to Japan in the quarter finals of the 2000 AFC Asian Cup in Lebanon, goalkeeper Hashim Khamis Hassan, defender Abdul-Jabar Hashim Hanoon and forward Qahtan Chathir Drain were labelled as guilty of loss and eventually flogged for three days by Uday's security.[25]
Other allegations include:
Uday was known to intrude on parties and otherwise "discover" women whom he would later rape. Time published an article in 2003 detailing his sexual brutality.[4][21]
Usage of an iron maiden on persons running afoul of him.[26]
Beating an army officer unconscious when the man refused to allow Uday to dance with his wife; the man later died of his injuries. Uday also shot and killed an army officer who did not salute him.[12]
Stealing approximately 1,200 luxury vehicles, including a Rolls-Royce Corniche valued at over $200,000.[citation needed]
Plotting, in 2000, to assassinate Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress. This was done shortly after Saddam named his younger son, Qusay, heir-apparent to the dictatorship. Uday allegedly intended to curry favour with his father through the assassination.[27]

Yes. I don't think you're going to find many people saying it was perfect back then but it's certainly better than the shit show going on for the best part of the last two decades.
---

Is this even a contest? This is like the Palestinians declaring war on Israel.

No one ever declares war on Chicken
---

darkprince45 posted...

Why is it a bad thing that US Troops are leaving another stupid endless battle in the Middle East

They aren't leaving shit, for one. Just getting moved to a different endless battle.
---

Unknown831 posted...

Oh so it's a troll account...

User Name OnWingsOfMisery
User ID6046515
Board User Level25: Novice User
Account Created Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:42 PM
Last Visit Sunday, October 13, 2019 12:58 PM
Karma36
Active Messages Posted44

Pot meet kettle
---

Irony posted...

Unknown831 posted...

Oh so it's a troll account...

User Name OnWingsOfMisery
User ID6046515
Board User Level25: Novice User
Account Created Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:42 PM
Last Visit Sunday, October 13, 2019 12:58 PM
Karma36
Active Messages Posted44

Pot meet kettle

Kettle meet pot
---

Odd given that the Syrian government does not like the Kurds and hasnt been kind to them. Im sure morale would be great with the Syrian army, which is itself divided into factions loyal to Iran or Russia, who fight amongst themselves. Now they get to interact with even more great friends with the communist Kurds who hate Arabs. They hate everyone else too but I mention what is relevant to this relationship.


---

https://www.ft.com/content/8139b25e-eda6-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195

apparently, the Kurds are now allied to the Syrian governmental forces and Russia
---

ROBANN_88 posted...

https://www.ft.com/content/8139b25e-eda6-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195

apparently, the Kurds are now allied to the Syrian governmental forces and Russia

Honestly the whole thing is just embarrassing and shameful and this makes it even moreso if it's true (behind a paywall so I can't read the article)
---

Awesome posted...

oh boy

do you guys remember when MAGAns said that Hillary would cause a war?

Pepperidge farms remembers

Hexenherz posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

https://www.ft.com/content/8139b25e-eda6-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195

apparently, the Kurds are now allied to the Syrian governmental forces and Russia

Honestly the whole thing is just embarrassing and shameful and this makes it even moreso if it's true (behind a paywall so I can't read the article)

goddamit, it wasn't behind a paywall when i read it just a few minutes ago.
i hate it when they do that
---

The Kurds had to ally with Assad. They are in Syria.
---

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50036901

The Kurds in Syria say the Syrian government has agreed to send its army to the northern border to try to halt Turkey's offensive against them.

Syrian state media earlier reported that government forces had been deployed to the north.

It follows the US decision to pull all its remaining troops from the area over the "untenable" situation there.

The Turkish assault, launched last week, is aimed at forcing Kurdish forces from along the border area.

Areas under control of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), the main US ally in the area, have come under heavy bombardment over the weekend, with Turkey making gains in two key border towns.

Dozens of civilians and fighters have been killed on both sides.

In a separate development on Sunday, Kurdish officials said nearly 800 relatives of foreign Islamic State (IS) members had escaped from Ain Issa, a camp in the north, as clashes raged nearby.

The Turkish offensive and US withdrawal has drawn an international outcry, as the SDF were the main Western allies in the battle against IS in Syria.

But Turkey views the Kurdish groups within the force as terrorists and says it wants to drive them away from a "safe zone" reaching 30km into Syria.

It also plans to resettle more than three million Syrian refugees currently in Turkey within the zone. Many of them are not Kurds. Critics have warned this could lead to ethnic cleansing of the local Kurdish population.

The Kurdish-led administration in northern Syria said the Syrian army would deploy along the entire length of the border as part of the agreement.

This deployment would assist the SDF in countering "this aggression and liberating the areas that the Turkish army and mercenaries had entered", it said in a statement.

The move also "paves the way to liberate the rest of the Syrian cities occupied by the Turkish army such as Afrin", it added.

Turkish forces and pro-Turkey Syrian rebels forced Kurdish fighters from Afrin back in 2018 after a two-month operation.

The deal represents a significant shift in alliances for the Kurds, after losing the military protection of their long-term US partners in the area.

It is not yet known what the Syrian government has committed to.

However SDF chief Mazloum Abdi acknowledged "there would be painful compromises" with the Assad government and its Russian allies, in a piece for Foreign Policy magazine.

"We do not trust their promises. To be honest, it is hard to know whom to trust," he writes.

"But if we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people."

The deal follows US President Donald Trump's surprise move last week to pull dozens of troops from pockets in the north-east, effectively paving the way for the Turkish operation against the Kurdish fighters.

At the time, the SDF called the move "a stab in the back".

As shameful as this is, this isn't the first time we've abandoned the Kurds to genocide. HW did the same thing in Iraq. I don't think they're ever going to trust us again after this episode, even after the idiot in chief is no longer president.

---

US Defence Secretary Mark Esper earlier announced the Pentagon was moving up to 1,000 troops away from the north after learning that Turkey was pushing further into Syria than previously expected.

Describing the situation there as "untenable", he said the SDF had been "looking to cut a deal" with the Syrian government and Russia to counter the Turkish attack.

This, he continued, would leave the US forces stuck between "two opposing advancing armies".

Hours after Mr Esper's comments, Syria said it was deploying its forces to the north to "confront a Turkish aggression". It is not yet clear where exactly the troops are being sent.

On Sunday, President Trump tweeted that it was "very smart" not to be involved in the fighting "for a change", saying engagement in Middle East conflict was a mistake.

Turkey is pushing deeper into northern Syria.

On Sunday, President Erdogan said his forces had already captured 109 sq km (42 square miles) of territory, including 21 villages.

He told reporters the key border town of Ras al-Ain had come under Turkish control - though the SDF said they had pushed Turkish forces back to the town's outskirts.

Mr Erdogan said Turkish forces had also besieged the town of Tal Abyad, some 120km (75 miles) away.

The UK-based monitoring group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said Turkey was in almost complete control there.

Both Ras al-Ain and Tal Abyad are key goals in the Turkish offensive against the Kurdish-led SDF forces.

Turkey also announced that its Syrian allies on the ground had seized a key motorway - called M4 - some 30-35km south of the border.

What are the casualty figures?
They're rising, with civilians killed on both sides of the border:

More than 50 civilians and over 100 Kurdish fighters killed in north-eastern Syria, SOHR says
SDF says the Kurdish forces' death toll is 56 and Turkey gives a higher figure of 440
Eighteen civilians killed in southern Turkey, according to Turkish reports
Four Turkish soldiers and 16 pro-Turkish Syrian fighters killed in Syria, Turkey says

The fighting has spilled over to areas close to IS detainee camps.

Fears that Kurdish forces will be unable to keep IS prisoners confined appeared to have been realised when officials at the Ain Issa camp said nearly 800 relatives of foreign IS members had escaped.

The SOHR said the number of people who fled was 100. It not known where they have fled to.

The camp holds about 12,000 displaced people, previously including nearly 1,000 foreign women and children with jihadist links.

The SDF says it is currently holding more than 12,000 suspected IS members in seven prisons, and at least 4,000 of them are foreign nationals.

IS has claimed recent car bombings and on Saturday declared a new campaign in Syria.

Turkey says it will take responsibility for IS prisoners it finds during its offensive.

DarkRoast posted...

For what it's worth, Syria vs. Turkey is a war in which we technically oppose both sides.

That we caused. Because Trump is an imbecile.

Deplorable as this is morally, getting your enemies to fight each other is not the sign of an imbecile. Quite the opposite.
---

Ilishe posted...

getting your enemies to fight each other is not the sign of an imbecile

It is when one of the countries is host to American bases and nuclear weapons.

Ilishe posted...

DarkRoast posted...

For what it's worth, Syria vs. Turkey is a war in which we technically oppose both sides.

That we caused. Because Trump is an imbecile.

Deplorable as this is morally, getting your enemies to fight each other is not the sign of an imbecile. Quite the opposite.

if this was the 1500's maybe weakening the "enemy" like that would be great.
but these days, i'd say regional stability is much more valuable
---

RaptorLC posted...

As shameful as this is, this isn't the first time we've abandoned the Kurds to genocide. HW did the same thing in Iraq. I don't think they're ever going to trust us again after this episode, even after the idiot in chief is no longer president.

How is it a genocide? There is a Kurdish, communist force that has captured Syrian land, placed Syrians in their concentration camps wholesale as ISIS members, killed and pillaged these peoples lands, and are internationally recognized as terrorists. Other Kurds, who are not communists, support Turkey in this. Videos have surfaced of Turks releasing women and children from such camps.

Turkey does not even care that they are Kurds, they love the Kurds of Iraq and hundreds of Turkish businesses deal with them in their Iraqi territories, and they allow them to come to Turkey as students, for business, etc.

The Syrians, of you know, actual Syria, whom the US have been allies with for seven years (the FSA) are allied with the Turks fighting off an invading force seizing 30% of the country while not being 10% of it. This force is also communist, ultra nationalist, and openly hostile to Arabs, Muslims, and this would include non-communist Kurds.

Explain to me where a genocide factors in. Explain how it factored into Afrin.

---

D_Fen_Door posted...

Turks fighting off an invading force

But the Turks are the invading force and the SAA is moving to repel them

RaptorLC posted...

As shameful as this is, this isn't the first time we've abandoned the Kurds to genocide. HW did the same thing in Iraq. I don't think they're ever going to trust us again after this episode, even after the idiot in chief is no longer president.

literally "both sides"

Fucking hell I wondered how long it would be before the west would start labelling the Kurds as terrorists.
---

Thanks Obama
---

OmegaShinkai posted...

But the Turks are the invading force and the SAA is moving to repel them

An invading force into Syria. The Turks have a refugee crisis and wish to return some Syrians to a home in Syria where they can live unmolested by communist terrorist groups, Iranian militias, and Syrian govt oppressors.

---

Crepes posted...

Fucking hell I wondered how long it would be before the west would start labelling the Kurds as terrorists.

The Kurds are many different people, many of whom are great. The PKK and YPG are already known terrorists as far as the west is concerned.

I honestly despair of the American left sometimes, they can be so misinformed. Find a rusty ass horn in the middle of a swamp, still pick it up and toot it.

I get they mean well but they have no idea whats going on in the ground and have neither the travel, cultural knowledge or language to remedy that.

---

D_Fen_Door posted...

I honestly despair of the American left sometimes

Is this why Republicans are pushing for sanctions against Turkey now? They must be part of the American left.

Shuto-uke posted...

literally "both sides"

Are you feeling okay? You seem to be either unable to read a rather simple post, or are hallucinating. Which is it?

---

OmegaShinkai posted...

Is this why Republicans are pushing for sanctions against Turkey now? They must be part of the American left.

I was not addressing them was I.

---

I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but to put this on Trump is reaching.
---

SauI_Goodman posted...

I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but to put this on Trump is reaching.

It's really not.

The Secretary of Defense resigned because of this shit.
Politicians and policy makers on both sides of the aisle warned about this shit.
Literally the only reason things were relatively stable in that corner of Syria was the presence of US troops.
---

When ISIS returns in full and people start dying to them will we be going back to the "Obama is the founder of ISIS" blame shifting?
---

I hope the US just and to stf away from this war. Let them go to war, and once the winner is decided there will finally be peace in the middle east and our countrymen can leave there forever.
---

tremain07 posted...

When ISIS returns in full and people start dying to them will we be going back to the "Obama is the founder of ISIS" blame shifting?

Obama and Hillary are so bad at dealing with ISIS that they are still around during Trump's second term

Fucking Obama.
---

Prismsblade posted...

once the winner is decided there will finally be peace in the middle east

Oh sweet summer child, the US is moving troops to Saudi Arabia to do their masters' bidding in deterring Iran.

darkprince45 posted...

Why is it a bad thing that US Troops are leaving another stupid endless battle in the Middle East. You guys were so vocal during bushs and Obamas terms about it. Now theyre out and people are still mad

So, it's fine to ask people to fight and die for us, then they get attacked, just pullout, and leave them to die? How is that right? Right or wrong aside, that kind of precedent does that set when we ask people for help in the future?
---

LordRazziel posted...

darkprince45 posted...

Why is it a bad thing that US Troops are leaving another stupid endless battle in the Middle East. You guys were so vocal during bushs and Obamas terms about it. Now theyre out and people are still mad

So, it's fine to ask people to fight and die for us, then they get attacked, just pullout, and leave them to die? How is that right? Right or wrong aside, that kind of precedent does that set when we ask people for help in the future?

Oh that's easy, either they help us or they die with whatever enemies we're fighting, or we blackmail and extort them to help us because without us they'll be dead. America doesn't want friends what this country wants is for the world to be sub servant to use and thankful we let them live another day
---

Irony posted...

Unknown831 posted...

Oh so it's a troll account...

User Name OnWingsOfMisery
User ID6046515
Board User Level25: Novice User
Account Created Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:42 PM
Last Visit Sunday, October 13, 2019 12:58 PM
Karma36
Active Messages Posted44

Pot meet kettle

Account age is meaningless anyway.
---

tremain07 posted...

LordRazziel posted...

darkprince45 posted...

Why is it a bad thing that US Troops are leaving another stupid endless battle in the Middle East. You guys were so vocal during bushs and Obamas terms about it. Now theyre out and people are still mad

So, it's fine to ask people to fight and die for us, then they get attacked, just pullout, and leave them to die? How is that right? Right or wrong aside, that kind of precedent does that set when we ask people for help in the future?

Oh that's easy, either they help us or they die with whatever enemies we're fighting, or we blackmail and extort them to help us because without us they'll be dead. America doesn't want friends what this country wants is for the world to be sub servant to use and thankful we let them live another day

Morality aside, that isn't a wise strategy.
---

Syria is organized enough to do this?
---

AnimeFan462 posted...

Syria is organized enough to do this?

They've pretty much retaken the entire south of the country, freeing up a lot of their forces to head back north. Also, Turkey's still suffering from their military officers being purged after that bullshit "coup" so they're not exactly the most threatening adversary at the moment.

LordRazziel posted...

Morality aside, that isn't a wise strategy.

it's not but it makes us look tough and that's all that matters to the dudes in power in that moment once it blows up it'll be the other guy's problem
---

tremain07 posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Morality aside, that isn't a wise strategy.

it's not but it makes us look tough and that's all that matters to the dudes in power in that moment once it blows up it'll be the other guy's problem

I'm no expert in foreign policy or military strategy, but in this age of proxy wars, it seems it will make local forces not want to fight for us.
---