Current Events > Can you think of a form of media where the big Empire is portrayed positively?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Only a handful of things come to mind, each a little more spicy than the last:

The Imperial Legion in Skyrim

The Begnion Empire in Fire Emblem Tellius

The empire in Fire Emblem Three Houses on Edelgard's route (no it's not the evil path ffs)
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Federation in Star Trek
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

The Begnion Empire in Fire Emblem Tellius

the big Empire is portrayed positively

Uuuuhh, wat

Did you actually play the games
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KOTOR 2 spoilers

Revan's Galactic Empire was retconned to sorta be a positive in KOTOR 2.

Revan was uniting the galaxy to fight the True Sith.
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Distant_Rainbow posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

The Begnion Empire in Fire Emblem Tellius

the big Empire is portrayed positively

Uuuuhh, wat

Did you actually play the games

Uh huh

They only got nasty because Sanaki got temporarily overthrown IIRC

Whenever she's in charge they're pretty benevolent
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Warcraft, I guess. The Alliance and the Horde could probably both be considered empires. Kind of worth noting, though, that anything actually called an empire is almost always a bad guy.
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Distant_Rainbow posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

The Begnion Empire in Fire Emblem Tellius

the big Empire is portrayed positively

Uuuuhh, wat

Did you actually play the games

Uh huh

They only got nasty because Sanaki got temporarily overthrown IIRC

Not really.

They were always nasty all along except Sanaki and her closest confidantes, the ruling class only tolerated her being the Empress because she wasn't actively opposing them, and the moment she tries to do something right that runs counter to their interests they immediately go and oust her. Just like they murdered the previous empress.

The occupation army that acts like a bunch of sanctioned slavers and massacres civilians in the first part of Radiant Dawn is actually the true face of Begnion.
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Darmik posted...

KOTOR 2 spoilers

Revan's Galactic Empire was retconned to sorta be a positive in KOTOR 2.

Revan was uniting the galaxy to fight the True Sith.

That just comes down to Revan at the end of the day. The Empire itself (what was left of it) was never portrayed positively.
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Nacen posted...

Darmik posted...

KOTOR 2 spoilers

Revan's Galactic Empire was retconned to sorta be a positive in KOTOR 2.

Revan was uniting the galaxy to fight the True Sith.

That just comes down to Revan at the end of the day. The Empire itself (what was left of it) was never portrayed positively.

Yeah we never really see what the rule was like under Revan. You can assume they got a lot worse when Malak took over but Kreia does say that Revan's sacrifice involved him falling to the Dark Side. Probably because he was portrayed to be a bit of a dick in KOTOR dialogue IIRC.

It would be cool seeing a KOTOR prequel about all of that but ah well.
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Mushroom Kingdom in every Mario game
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Mushroom Kingdom in every Mario game

I don't think they're an empire tho
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Team America: World Police

aren't the imperial empire in skyrim portrayed as extremely jnept and basically bringing the region to its doom (idk for sure as skyrim is big trash with trash writing)

Why do you ask this? Why would you want to portray a vast imperial force as good actually

Distant_Rainbow posted...

Not really.

They were always nasty all along except Sanaki and her closest confidantes, the ruling class only tolerated her being the Empress because she wasn't actively opposing them, and the moment she tries to do something right that runs counter to their interests they immediately go and oust her. Just like they murdered the previous empress.

The occupation army that acts like a bunch of sanctioned slavers and massacres civilians in the first part of Radiant Dawn is actually the true face of Begnion.

I do remember all of that, but that blame should be put more on the senate than anything else, and it's made fairly clear that the Senate itself is fairly corrupt and plotting, but by the end of the game they're more or less all gone, leaving Sanaki to rule unopposed and therefore making the Empire benevolent again.

I do love how in Three Houses the first thing Edelgard does as Empress is house arrest all the nobles who opposed her ascending the throne lol

Malfunction posted...

aren't the imperial empire in skyrim portrayed as extremely jnept and basically bringing the region to its doom (idk for sure as skyrim is big trash with trash writing)

Incompetent, sure. But the Stormcloaks are pretty major pains in the ass for them and that might be a part of their incompetence. Haven't played Skyrim in years though so maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I do remember the Empire being relatively uninvolved with your grievances outside of the intro

Malfunction posted...

Why do you ask this? Why would you want to portray a vast imperial force as good actually

Historically they've always been a fascinating form of government with its own share of upsides and downsides, but all media seem to take from their existence is "the comedically evil bad guy nation"
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Begnion is like, the polar opposite of positive. They pay lip service to following a benevolent leader while actually being completely awful behind the scenes.
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Panthera posted...

Begnion is like, the polar opposite of positive. They pay lip service to following a benevolent leader while actually being completely awful behind the scenes.

And by the end of RD IIRC all of those corrupt are either dead or not a threat anymore, so at least they're ultimately not being fake about the benevolence at some point, which is why I gave them the pass
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Need a game where you play as an imperial commander tasked with crushing an uprising by serfs seeking emancipation this is definitely an appealing narrative!

Malfunction posted...

Need a game where you play as an imperial commander tasked with crushing an uprising by serfs seeking emancipation this is definitely an appealing narrative!

I mean

If anyone played Battlefront 2's campaign that's kinda how it starts

also almost every Dynasty Warriors game lol
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Malfunction posted...

Need a game where you play as an imperial commander tasked with crushing an uprising by serfs seeking emancipation this is definitely an appealing narrative!

Isn't this what Tyranny is about?
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FTL
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UnfairRepresent posted...

FTL

Oh, that's a good one.
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Panthera posted...

Begnion is like, the polar opposite of positive. They pay lip service to following a benevolent leader while actually being completely awful behind the scenes.

And by the end of RD IIRC all of those corrupt are either dead or not a threat anymore, so at least they're ultimately not being fake about the benevolence at some point, which is why I gave them the pass

Sure, but after two games of them being obviously no good, they eventually become good...in the epilogue, where we never see it. I wouldn't really count that as a positive portrayal given that it's never actually portrayed <_<
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UnfairRepresent posted...

FTL

Ooh, never thought of it like that.
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Darmik posted...

Malfunction posted...

Need a game where you play as an imperial commander tasked with crushing an uprising by serfs seeking emancipation this is definitely an appealing narrative!

Isn't this what Tyranny is about?

It's literally called tyranny my guy

Anyway I'm sure there are games which don't settle into this pattern, I'm just making it clear why that is such an appealing narrative structure for developers/writers.

Panthera posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

Panthera posted...

Begnion is like, the polar opposite of positive. They pay lip service to following a benevolent leader while actually being completely awful behind the scenes.

And by the end of RD IIRC all of those corrupt are either dead or not a threat anymore, so at least they're ultimately not being fake about the benevolence at some point, which is why I gave them the pass

Sure, but after two games of them being obviously no good, they eventually become good...in the epilogue, where we never see it. I wouldn't really count that as a positive portrayal given that it's never actually portrayed <_<

I kinda see that, but end of the day they weren't being ruled by some power-hungry, bloodthirsty leader I mean, Sephiran wasn't REALLY in charge was he which is kinda a checklist requirement on most Empires nowadays, and all the assholes are outed in due time, so in that sense it's kinda successful

The Adestrian Empire's portrayal always fascinated me in Three Houses. So much support garnered from the regular people, they run into the occasional food shortage but that's understandable because it's wartime. They get a lot of defectors from seemingly more liberating nations like the Kingdom or the Alliance. They have a political prisoner (Petra) but this actually helps strengthen their relationship between countries, and overall just about no sort of doom and gloom that you'd normally see from the standard Empire archetypes elsewhere
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

I do remember all of that, but that blame should be put more on the senate than anything else, and it's made fairly clear that the Senate itself is fairly corrupt and plotting, but by the end of the game they're more or less all gone, leaving Sanaki to rule unopposed and therefore making the Empire benevolent again.

And by the end of RD IIRC all of those corrupt are either dead or not a threat anymore, so at least they're ultimately not being fake about the benevolence at some point, which is why I gave them the pass

You see, that shouldn't count. Because in the course of the game's plot, you essentially killed the essence of what made Begnion, well, Begnion. Not to mention that at the end of the game it's no longer really an empire either, because it returns the Serenes lands it formerly annexed, and makes it a point that it will no longer act as a suzerain nation that lords its authority over all the other countries, now just being an equal kingdom.

Also, if Begnion is allowed just because of its portrayal in the ending, almost every single empire depicted in Fire Emblem games is positive. The Archanean Empire under Marth after his second game is positive. The Grandbell Empire after Fire Emblem 4 is positive. Etruria after the corrupt nobles were ousted and Bern after it was conquered by Roy in Fire Emblem 6 are positive. Infinitum ad nauseam et absurdum.

Heck, there are a fair few which were depicted in a much better light than Begnion yet I would still not call being objectively positive overall.
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Critical Role, a D&D webshow, has an Empire in its second campaign. It's a little morally gray, so it's sometimes portrayed badly but is also portrayed as necessary.
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Distant_Rainbow posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

I do remember all of that, but that blame should be put more on the senate than anything else, and it's made fairly clear that the Senate itself is fairly corrupt and plotting, but by the end of the game they're more or less all gone, leaving Sanaki to rule unopposed and therefore making the Empire benevolent again.

And by the end of RD IIRC all of those corrupt are either dead or not a threat anymore, so at least they're ultimately not being fake about the benevolence at some point, which is why I gave them the pass

You see, that shouldn't count. Because in the course of the game's plot, you essentially killed the essence of what made Begnion, well, Begnion. Not to mention that at the end of the game it's no longer really an empire either, because it returns the Serenes lands it formerly annexed, and makes it a point that it will no longer act as a suzerain nation that lords its authority over all the other countries, now just being an equal kingdom.

Also, if Begnion is allowed just because of its portrayal in the ending, almost every single empire depicted in Fire Emblem games is positive. The Archanean Empire under Marth after his second game is positive. The Grandbell Empire after Fire Emblem 4 is positive. Etruria after the corrupt nobles were ousted and Bern after it was conquered by Roy in Fire Emblem 6 are positive. Infinitum ad nauseam et absurdum.

Heck, there are a fair few which were depicted in a much better light than Begnion yet I would still not call being objectively positive overall.

Sure, we can go that route.

Grannevale is definitely way more positive with Sigurd as Emperor, that's for sure.

pegusus123456 posted...

Critical Role, a D&D webshow, has an Empire in its second campaign. It's a little morally gray, so it's sometimes portrayed badly but is also portrayed as necessary.

Cool, I've been meaning to watch that show for a while now.
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The Foundation empire, maybe?

I don't know much about the series, I might be completely wrong.

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DrizztLink posted...

The Foundation empire, maybe?

I don't know much about the series, I might be completely wrong.

you mean the book series than yes to this but instead of a pure good guy it shows how human the empire is in the grey area
and most of the book deals in empire losing it's peak power
give it a read it's good my fav is that sneaking merchant who made the best just as planned move in making sure that his enemy doesn't start a war unless he want's to go bankrupt best chess move imo

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All Japanese media taking place during the feudal era treats some imperial lord as the main hero. Half the time Nobunagas one (the other half hes the villain drinking out of skulls and shit).

Kami_no_Kami posted...

All Japanese media taking place during the feudal era treats some imperial lord as the main hero. Half the time Nobunagas one (the other half hes the villain drinking out of skulls and shit).

And like 50% of the time(at least nowadays)he is turned into a woman/impersonated by his twin sister/literally a demon or made a deal with a demon/someone isekais into his body

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Kinda sorta in Halo. The Covenant gets some notable good guy tropes different species cooperating, sincere religious belief, republic-ish government and the humans do plenty of bad guy tropes abducting kids to make supersoldiers to put down rebellions, superweapon obsession, propoganda level to match the Covenant's, attempted coups, perpetuating civil wars....
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A good chunk of American war movies.
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Dishonored 2 somewhat

Legend of Zelda games (Zelda and the king are generally good guys)

Lion King

Majority of Disney movies.
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Any WW2 movie

Platoon

American Sniper

Mulan
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The Hu sing about Genghis Khan positively
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The Last Remnant.

The villain was pretty much just one really strong rebel dude.

us propaganda
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The Empire in the first four Elder Scrolls games is shown positively relative to other governments

It may be my interpretation but I feel like The Nilgaardian Empire in Witcher 3 is shown to be the least horrible of the major powers

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HBO's Rome
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The Prothean Empire from Mass Effect... at least until ME3 <.<
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Malazan Empire
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Warhammer

Well sort of.
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I thought of the empire as more positive than the racist stormcloacks

RdVEHfJqAvUPIbk posted...

Federation in Star Trek

Did you even read the question? He said Empire.
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the ny yankees

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Warhammer

Well sort of.

In the Grimdark Future there Is only war
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UnfairRepresent posted...

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Warhammer

Well sort of.

In the Grimdark Future there Is only war

That's the other Warhammer.
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