Board 8 > Joker is so good *marked spoilers, no spoilers in first post*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just watched it since it's already out here.

I think it's my favorite DC film so far, though it can be painful to watch at times. It's a very well-crafted and focused film. Joaquin Phoenix is amazing.

AMA?
---

Why is it so good? What makes it painful to watch?

---

Damn, keep forgetting I need to get tickets this weekend.

---

Did it turn you into an alt-right incel?

---

redrocket posted...

Why is it so good? What makes it painful to watch?

I think it's mostly because the story is laser focused. It tells the story of Arthur as a man, his living conditions, and how the people in his life treat him. So every plot thread is relevant and the director knows how to set things up for a pay off later on, and often with a twist along the way.
The dialogue is also solid, especially the jokes. The acting is solid, with Phoenix especially doing spectacular work.
I love how the director can make the scenes very effective, the tense scenes are nail biting, the jokes are great, and it just evokes conflicting emotions...like how I laughed because the situation was uncomfortable.
---

As for what makes it painful...
1. The violence. There are many brutal scenes though not really with gratuitous gore.
2. Emotional pain and embarrassment. There are many scenes that might trigger one's social anxiety even without a disposition for it.
3. Anticipation. You can see how certain things might trigger a response from Joker and you just wait for the moment to happen, even as the characters don't expect it.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Did it turn you into an alt-right incel?

If anything it makes me more of a Marxist.
---

How do American movies come out in SE Asia before they even debut domestically? Who plans this shit out?
---

This movie is making me uncomfortable!
---

Raka_Putra posted...

If anything it makes me more of a Marxist.

jacknicholsonnoddingyes.gif

---

GenesisSaga posted...

How do American movies come out in SE Asia before they even debut domestically? Who plans this shit out?

Good question.

GenesisSaga posted...

This movie is making me uncomfortable!

Yeah, it does have a lot of scenes that can make people uncomfortable. Anyone with triggers should check the trigger warnings (unironically).
---

I'll see it tomorrow afternoon
---

I thought this was another Persona 5 topic
---

GenesisSaga posted...

How do American movies come out in SE Asia before they even debut domestically? Who plans this shit out?

I'd have to assume the studios want really bad pirated copies in the wild because they figured out if the movie is good pirates will go pay for they high quality version later. Otherwise there is no logical explanation I can think of.
---

It was indeed fantastic, and indeed painful to watch at times

Raka_Putra posted...

As for what makes it painful...
1. The violence. There are many brutal scenes though not really with gratuitous gore.
2. Emotional pain and embarrassment. There are many scenes that might trigger one's social anxiety even without a disposition for it.
3. Anticipation. You can see how certain things might trigger a response from Joker and you just wait for the moment to happen, even as the characters don't expect it.

While I agree with all of this, #2 got the most reaction out of me. There were scenes I had to watch through my fingers because I was so uncomfortable, anticipating where a scene was going to go. It goes well beyond "cringe" or "trigger" or whatever. It was like a legitimate dread all to familiar to a somewhat socially awkward person such as myself.
---

Oh boy, that scene where he imagined himself on the show that was so scary for me.
---

For me it was mostly his debut at the comedy club. I wanted to walk out so badly, but I couldn't tear my eyes away from the screen because it was so compelling. Argh...

It's hard to compare them because every Joker is different, but I would put Joaquin Phoenix in the same tier as Heath Ledger and it's legitimately difficult for me to determine which I prefer.
---

Just sat down for the 4pm showing. Three squad cars outside the theater, jeez.

---

Good ass movie
---

My theater also had an officer in the lobby to deter the crazies
---

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

- the joker

Seeing it in a couple hours.
---

Just saw it.

It was alright. I'll probably give more thoughts later.
---

Just half an hour of trailers standing in my way!
---

And I'm back! First impression is I was totally wowed by how remarkably Scorsese that movie felt, in all the right ways. Haven't seen any interviews but I'm imagining Taxi Driver and the like had a huge influence on this.

Tons of other thoughts percolating but I'm pretty comfortable saying that this is the best DC movie, though I guess that doesn't mean much for most folks, lol.
---

Reading discussions on the movie I'm a but weirded out at how few people are bringing up that the entire third act might not even have happened. It was all I could think about by the time the movie was over!
---

Imagine wanting to walk out because of how uncomfortable you felt LOL

---

Raka_Putra posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Did it turn you into an alt-right incel?

If anything it makes me more of a Marxist.

This is interesting. I've seen negative reviews from people who identify as left-wing, or progressives, saying the film is bad because it legitimizes the incel ideology. Meanwhile you see conservative or right-wing people bashing them in the comments.

But myself, I want to disagree with the reviews (although I haven't seen the film yet) for entire different reasons. Because, as much as I think incels are silly, there is something that creates them, which is this extremely individualist and inequal society we live in. It seems the film aims to explain how extremists are created, not by legitimizing them, but by showing the sick world that created them.

But nowadays all sides in politics can only argue by pretending the other side is evil. "Angry white men" are evil and their woes are not relevant, they think. When the truth is that everyone's woes are the result of the bigger system that is broken.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Because, as much as I think incels are silly, there is something that creates them, which is this extremely individualist and inequal society we live in. It seems the film aims to explain how extremists are created, not by legitimizing them, but by showing the sick world that created them.

damn we really do live in a society

okay serious reply is that there's a fine line on this kind of thing and that makes me apprehensive (but interested) in the movie. That plus seeing if it actually feels like a take on Joker as a character.

---

The posts in this topic really make me want to see this. I already wanted to see it but now I really want to see it.
---

ZeldaTPLink posted...

This is interesting. I've seen negative reviews from people who identify as left-wing, or progressives, saying the film is bad because it legitimizes the incel ideology. Meanwhile you see conservative or right-wing people bashing them in the comments.

But myself, I want to disagree with the reviews (although I haven't seen the film yet) for entire different reasons. Because, as much as I think incels are silly, there is something that creates them, which is this extremely individualist and inequal society we live in. It seems the film aims to explain how extremists are created, not by legitimizing them, but by showing the sick world that created them.

But nowadays all sides in politics can only argue by pretending the other side is evil. "Angry white men" are evil and their woes are not relevant, they think. When the truth is that everyone's woes are the result of the bigger system that is broken.

I haven't seen the movie but I think a lot of the criticism is because the movie just sounds like taxi driver rebranded as joker, which is pretty cynical. It's like making a Wishbone episode. It's not even the same as like, how avatar is similar to fern gully or dances with wolves...sure the themes and plot are similar, but this one has the same theme and plot but extra marketing potential by just slapping a famous character on it. It doesn't even use the same character origins you find in the comic books for the character, it's like someone had a screenplay and they were like ehh I don't know, then they were like uh what if we make it a comic book movie to sell it.

---

I think there's a huge difference between "this will create incels" and "incels will love it."

The latter is absolutely 100% true. The former, not so much.
---

Good movie. Phoenix did an amazing job.

---

I enjoyed it as a showcase into the character but I felt it went nowhere at the end

---

A reading I'm growing particularly fond of (assuming you believe the climax isn't just a fantasy) is that this is actually Gotham's origin story - the story of a powder keg of a city being sparked by just a few key actions and becoming the city-beyond-saving that Batman eventually has to deal with.
---

Watched it.

It's very depressing. A bit more than I was expectating.

I'm not sure how this film makes people want to be mass-shooters. I felt bad for the character, but didn't want to be him. He film aims to invoke a sense of pity rather than empowerment.

Like I said before, it's an interesting film about depression that kind of tells something about the real world.

Joaquin is a fantastic actor and his character was great, but this isn't the best Joker. He comes a little late and feels a bit like a manchild whining about the unfair world instead of the evil mastermind that fights evenly with Batman. But even though it's not the best Joker, it might be the best acting for the character so far. If they don't give him an oscar it will be a huge snub.

After reading my friends' thoughts it's definitely very interesting that people take away very different messages from the movie. Maybe because it's so intimate in its dissection of Arthur's psyche that people are forced to contextualize and interpret it with their own sense of self.
...I don't know if that last sentence makes sense, but what I mean is someone can take it as an empowerment, and indictment, a sob story, a heartwarming tale of a wronged man, etc. and that mirrors their general outlook.
---

Most people watch breaking bad and think Skyler is an annoying bitch who is just getting in Walt's way. There's no way introspection is the primary response to this movie.
---

Raka_Putra posted...

After reading my friends' thoughts it's definitely very interesting that people take away very different messages from the movie. Maybe because it's so intimate in its dissection of Arthur's psyche that people are forced to contextualize and interpret it with their own sense of self.
...I don't know if that last sentence makes sense, but what I mean is someone can take it as an empowerment, and indictment, a sob story, a heartwarming tale of a wronged man, etc. and that mirrors their general outlook.

I got a bit of everything, myself.

So Joaquin was great of course. But I gotta say the movie as a whole was pretty one dimensional. I'm disappointed.

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

So Joaquin was great of course. But I gotta say the movie as a whole was pretty one dimensional. I'm disappointed.

This is kind of my feeling. It's a great performance by Phoenix but the rest of the movie is just... there. No worthwhile performances, characters merely exist to be like "here's another shitty thing to happen to Arthur" while not feeling like real people. Thomas Wayne's entire existence in this movie is pretty pointless.
---

The movie could have really done more to explore joker's growing cult of personality instead of just having him suddenly be a supervillain one night.

I think Todd Phillips thinks he's smarter than he really is.

---

That's a pretty impressive misreading of the film.
---

That's probably because it wasn't real.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

That's a pretty impressive misreading of the film.

It's not a reading of the film, it's a thought about a film that doesn't exist.

I just personally find the question of "how does one lead an evil movement?" a way more interesting question than "why does someone start an evil movement?"

---

My comment was to Rock, not you. But yeah, you're asking for a movie to not be about something it's technically not about anyways so.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

That's a pretty impressive misreading of the film.

I don't think the director who thought it would be funny to have a transgender woman rape one of the main characters of a comedy film is super deep, honestly.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't think the director who thought it would be funny to have a transgender woman rape one of the main characters of a comedy film is super deep, honestly.

...Did I miss this part?

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't think the director who thought it would be funny to have a transgender woman rape one of the main characters of a comedy film is super deep, honestly.

...Did I miss this part?

Todd Phillips directed Hangover 2. In which a trans porn star sodomized Ed Helms while he was fucked up on drugs.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Todd Phillips directed Hangover 2. In which a trans porn star sodomized Ed Helms while he was fucked up on drugs.

Oh lmao

I have never considered watching a hangover sequel

---