Current Events > Folk who don't think privilege exists, e.g. white privilege, male privilge etc.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Didn't you all watch The Fresh Prince, like even 3 episodes? Like that time Carlton gets arrested for driving the benz, or the fraternity guy tries to kick him out of the frat for being an uncle tom, etc.

Pretty clearcut demonstration of how privilege isn't a linear scale of lucky/unlucky and different factors in your life can be considered differently by society.
---

Not sure how using a television show as an example helps your case.

Theres also female and black privilege btw.
---

not being treated like shit is not a privilege. It is a basic thing everyone should be afforded.

Not everyone is treated the same even in priviledged groupings, but there definitely is a trend.

Old women have grocery store aisle privilege and I'm not happy about it.
---

You know that's a TV show.

---

I can see the rationale behind white privilege, but male privilege just sounds like women making everything about themselves yet again.

Kolibri X posted...

You know that's a TV show.

Do you ever use fictional anecdotes to illustrate a point
---

pinky0926 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

You know that's a TV show.

Do you ever use fictional anecdotes to illustrate a point

No, not if I want to be taken seriously.
---

Aristoph posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

You know that's a TV show.

Do you ever use fictional anecdotes to illustrate a point

No, not if I want to be taken seriously.

So any commentary on society that is fictional cannot be taken seriously because it is fictional, like Orwell's 1984, or Catcher in the Rye, or To Kill a Mockingbird, etc.

Are you sure that is what you mean
---

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Theres also female and black privilege btw.

There really isn't, at least not in western nations where white males computerise the status quo. Plus, being able to say the n-word isn't privilege unless you're the type who just really wants to be able to say the n-word without repercussion, which has a lot of negative implications for such a person.
---

pinky0926 posted...

Do you ever use fictional anecdotes to illustrate a point

You mean like the time on Family Matters how Stefan Urquelle taught Steve Urkel the importance of being himself or something like that? No, because that would be silly.

---

gunplagirl posted...

There really isn't, at least not in western nations where white males computerise the status quo. Plus, being able to say the n-word isn't privilege unless you're the type who just really wants to be able to say the n-word without repercussion, which has a lot of negative implications for such a person.

You could argue we have female privilege in the western world. They get away with a lot of shit.

If I used, say, Married with Children to argue those privileges don't exist, would you take it seriously?

---

I don't understand people who get triggered by being told they have privilege. White privilege doesn't been that you have automatically had a good/easy life. Merely that the colour of your skin hasn't made it even harder.

Do you have to plan every facet of your nights out (from where you go to what you wear to what transport options you have) around considering how to reduce your chances of getting raped? I do not, because I have male privilege.

shnangyboos posted...

If I used, say, Married with Children to argue those privileges don't exist, would you take it seriously?

If they had something to say other than a throwaway ironic joke then sure, but I haven't seen it. What's the context?

CE really gonna pretend like fiction never had anything useful to say about the state of the world, lol
---

No context, just fishing for consistency.

---

pinky0926 posted...

shnangyboos posted...

If I used, say, Married with Children to argue those privileges don't exist, would you take it seriously?

If they had something to say other than a throwaway ironic joke then sure, but I haven't seen it. What's the context?

CE really gonna pretend like fiction never had anything useful to say about the state of the world, lol

I suggest stop engaging as they don't seem to think social commentary in media holds any merit.

pinky0926 posted...

Aristoph posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

You know that's a TV show.

Do you ever use fictional anecdotes to illustrate a point

No, not if I want to be taken seriously.

So any commentary on society that is fictional cannot be taken seriously because it is fictional, like Orwell's 1984, or Catcher in the Rye, or To Kill a Mockingbird, etc.

Are you sure that is what you mean

You can't say "this thing is real because a fictional TV show did an episode where something like it happens."

Just like you can't say "the government is trying to control your thoughts because Orwell wrote a book called 1984 in which the government is trying to control your thoughts."

Do you see how stupid that is? I hope you do, but I'm really not sure.
---

biggernails posted...

pinky0926 posted...

shnangyboos posted...

If I used, say, Married with Children to argue those privileges don't exist, would you take it seriously?

If they had something to say other than a throwaway ironic joke then sure, but I haven't seen it. What's the context?

CE really gonna pretend like fiction never had anything useful to say about the state of the world, lol

I suggest stop engaging as they don't seem to think social commentary in media holds any merit.

Social commentary is one thing. TC is trying to claim a television show is proof of something's existence. Which is asinine.
---

Aristoph posted...

Social commentary is one thing. TC is trying to claim a television show is proof of something's existence. Which is asinine.

at the point if time of Fresh Prince being a show, do you really think the sort of happenings in the show had no bearing on reality at all?

pinky0926 posted...

CE really gonna pretend like fiction never had anything useful to say about the state of the world, lol

If I was trying to make an important point about politics, current events or society I wouldn't use fiction like a TGIF sitcom, Nickelodeon cartoon or Harry Potter book to make it unless I was expecting people to laugh.

---

Aristoph posted...

You can't say "this thing is real because a fictional TV show did an episode where something like it happens."

Just like you can't say "the government is trying to control your thoughts because Orwell wrote a book called 1984 in which the government is trying to control your thoughts."

Do you see how stupid that is? I hope you do, but I'm really not sure.

That's actually not at all what I'm suggesting. Like, at all.

The problem I see with people interpreting privilege is that they take it to mean "if you are white your life is better", or "if you are male your life is better", as if privilege means that you have an absolute advantage in all things because of your race or sex.

The Fresh Prince demonstrated really well how it could be that someone have an extraordinarily fortunate life but still be a victim of privilege. Similarly it showed how a white man could be discriminated against by black people.

So I'm not saying The Fresh Prince proves that privilege exists. I'm saying The Fresh Prince demonstrates how privilege is about having to deal with a specific flavour of bullshit in your life that other people don't have to - not that privilege means your life must be automatically easy or hard.

Uncle Phil is a very wealthy, very well educated and powerful man who still has to deal with the problems of being a black man in the world. That's the point the show makes.

I'll concede my topic title suggest otherwise though. Really what I'm getting at here is that maybe people don't think privilege exists because they take "privilege" to mean something that is not being suggested.
---

pinky0926 posted...

So I'm not saying The Fresh Prince proves that privilege exists.

That's literally the entire premise of your topic title.

"If you don't think privilege exists, you must not have watched Fresh Prince." That's exactly what you were saying. You're backtracking now because people pointed out how stupid that statement is.
---

Aristoph posted...

pinky0926 posted...

So I'm not saying The Fresh Prince proves that privilege exists.

That's literally the entire premise of your topic title.

"If you don't think privilege exists, you must not have watched Fresh Prince." That's exactly what you were saying. You're backtracking now because people pointed out how stupid that statement is.

See my edit:

I'll concede my topic title suggest otherwise though. Really what I'm getting at here is that maybe people don't think privilege exists because they take "privilege" to mean something that is not being suggested.
---

lol

pinky0926 posted...

Aristoph posted...

pinky0926 posted...

So I'm not saying The Fresh Prince proves that privilege exists.

That's literally the entire premise of your topic title.

"If you don't think privilege exists, you must not have watched Fresh Prince." That's exactly what you were saying. You're backtracking now because people pointed out how stupid that statement is.

See my edit:

I'll concede my topic title suggest otherwise though. Really what I'm getting at here is that maybe people don't think privilege exists because they take "privilege" to mean something that is not being suggested.

Then don't act like a condescending ass saying stuff like "are you sure that's what you mean" when you clearly weren't even sure your own statement was what you meant. -_-
---

Aristoph posted...

Then don't act like a condescending ass saying stuff like "are you sure that's what you mean" when you clearly weren't even sure your own statement was what you meant. -_-

Alright.

Next question then. Do you think the Fresh Prince shows a difference between how many people interpret privilege, namely that privilege is about the nature of problems you deal with, versus the idea that privilege is whether your life is better or worse?

I think the problem is that people get defensive because it seems to them that if someone says they have a certain kind of privilege, that must mean they are accusing them of life on easy mode. And I don't think that's how it works.
---

What have you done to piss this guy off, TC?
---

The idea of privilege is very much real, but also way more complex than anybody seems willing to admit and/or discuss.

We all have things working for or against us to varying degrees. The combination of your skin color/ethnicity/heritage and your socioeconomic status is a big one. I really don't think socioeconomic status gets discussed nearly enough, because I feel it plays almost as big of a role as your race in determining the opportunities available to you.

It is way too simple to just say X has it easier than Y due to X's white skin tone versus Y's black skin tone. On average, those may be the odds, but that can easily not be true when comparing two individuals.

Disadvantages due to racial injustice are far from the only disadvantages out there. It is just one that we as a society are increasingly viewing as unacceptable and rightfully so.

The word privilege seems to put a lot of people off. I would have to guess that there is a better way to categorize the concept. The term privileged seems to carry a negative connotation unless used in reference to oneself to display gratitude.
---

*yawn*
---

TommyG663513 posted...

The idea of privilege is very much real, but also way more complex than anybody seems willing to admit and/or discuss.

We all have things working for or against us to varying degrees. The combination of your skin color/ethnicity/heritage and your socioeconomic status is a big one. I really don't think socioeconomic status gets discussed nearly enough, because I feel it plays almost as big of a role as your race in determining the opportunities available to you.

It is way too simple to just say X has it easier than Y due to X's white skin tone versus Y's black skin tone. On average, those may be the odds, but that can easily not be true when comparing two individuals.

Disadvantages due to racial injustice are far from the only disadvantages out there. It is just one that we as a society are increasingly viewing as unacceptable and rightfully so.

The word privilege seems to put a lot of people off. I would have to guess that there is a better way to categorize the concept. The term privileged seems to carry a negative connotation unless used in reference to oneself to display gratitude.

This is my take too.
---

akshually that's a fictional tv show and has no bearing whatsoever on reality

I'd have actually gone with two episodes: one were Will is (I think trying out) for a basketball team and this other player is a homeboy "just like him" when Will thought he was gonna make the team/beat the other guy cause he was in some rich preppy school.

Or the episode with them going back to Vivian's and Phill's old apartment after the neighbourhood got damaged and Will is helping this one guy and the guy wants him to come back but Will keeps making excuses and the guy just gets annyoed and is like "yeah I get it, you come down, you help out once and you feel good then you go back to your mansion while I'm still stuck down here with all the other people needing help"
---

pinky0926 posted...

Aristoph posted...

Then don't act like a condescending ass saying stuff like "are you sure that's what you mean" when you clearly weren't even sure your own statement was what you meant. -_-

Alright.

Next question then. Do you think the Fresh Prince shows a difference between how many people interpret privilege, namely that privilege is about the nature of problems you deal with, versus the idea that privilege is whether your life is better or worse?

I think the problem is that people get defensive because it seems to them that if someone says they have a certain kind of privilege, that must mean they are accusing them of life on easy mode. And I don't think that's how it works.

Some people very much mean to use it in a way to imply you have life on easy mode. Correct or not that is how some treat the word. Both people on the giving and receiving end of this word can mean it/take it that way.

There are a number of different ways to view privilege. Words can be complex. I don't see why addressing the word choice isn't seen as a valid enough criticism. Saying white privilege or black disadvantage can come off very differently, but are both an attempt to reduce an entire concept into two words. It highlights how limiting that can be and how it reduces our efficiency in discussing the issue at hand.

This is why I tend to try to describe how I feel with certain ideas rather than reducing them to a single word or phrase.

Also, Fresh Prince probably isn't the best example to use. I wouldn't dwell too much on it.
---

You are aware that's a fictional TV show right?

Fresh Prince is probably one of the best examples as it gives off the clear air that reputaiton and money can increase your perceived privilege.
The difference between someone like Ice-Tray and Will in the eyes of Philip/Vivian
Who was apparently played bY Don Cheadle

Fuck me that's a fun fact!
---

The reason that socioeconomic privilege is downplayed is because oftentimes the activists pushing these ideas have a fair bit of that, and they dont like being called out like that.

As to why TC used this show as an example upon which to hang so much of the argument for privilege dynamics, I think it was a poor attempt at humor. Or that is their only significant contact with minorities. Probably humor.