Poll of the Day > Let's do everything to deal with gun violence except actual solutions, Part 2087

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streamofthesky
08/14/19 1:10:19 AM
#1:


https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/dayton-body-armor-connor-betts-charges/index.html

Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges


You know, when I saw the article title, I thought, "well, I'm sure buying that crazy military grade shit is totes legal, so I assume they nabbed him on conspiring with the shooter, or knowing of his plans and not alerting authorities, or something. Maybe there's some legit crime they can punish this guy for."

NOPE!

Kollie told the agents he enjoyed firearms, owned two pistols and had bought body armor and a firearms accessory for Betts earlier this year, the affidavit says.
The 24-year-old allowed agents to search his home, where they smelled marijuana and saw a water pipe, commonly used to consume cannabis, and a Draco pistol, the affidavit says.

When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Asked why he lied on the federal firearms form, Kollie allegedly told agents that "if he told the truth about his drug use, he would not be allowed to purchase a firearm."
Though US Attorney Benjamin Glassman emphasized that Kollie did not intentionally help plan the Dayton shootings, the affidavit says Kollie acknowledged buying the body armor, a 100-round double drum magazine and an upper receiver for an AR-15, which is part of the gun's frame. All three items were used in the attack, authorities say.

"He does not deny his friendship with Connor Betts and he was as shocked and surprised as everyone else that Mr. Betts committed the violent and senseless massacre in the Oregon District," Nick Gounaris, the attorney, said.
"We appreciate the United States Attorney stating that there was no indication that Mr. Kollie knew that he was assisting Betts in the shooting," the email said.
Kollie is being held in Montgomery County Jail, charged with possession of a firearm by someone who illegally uses or is addicted to a controlled substance, and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.
He will have a detention hearing Wednesday to determine bail, Glassman said. He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted on both counts, the prosecutor said.


Yes, that's the problem! Not that anybody can go out and buy 100 round ammunition drums and body armor...but that a pot head did! Got 'em!

This is such a fucking farce, they're basically throwing him in jail because he smokes pot, they've already admitted he did nothing else wrong (well, nothing else illegal...I find plenty wrong w/ being able to buy that shit casually). And of course, to show that they're "doing something."

How about actually doing something, and FIX THE FUCKING GUN LAWS?!
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Mead
08/14/19 1:27:59 AM
#2:


People of sounds mind and morals should be able to have guns designed for hunting or self defense

If a gun is designed to combat humans, no one should have that outside of the military

I think almost everyone can agree with those terms and it seems like a good place to start

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Noop_Noop
08/14/19 1:29:49 AM
#3:


Mead posted...
designed for hunting or self defense


Mead posted...
designed to combat humans


there is a pretty massive overlap here
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Firewood18
08/14/19 1:36:30 AM
#4:


Check and see what a fucked up strangle hold the NRA has put the government in in how they can keep records of owners of firearms.

I think it was inspired by the original Red Dawn movie.
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RoboXgp89
08/14/19 2:05:00 AM
#5:


mentally ill
wouldn't have happened if he didn't dude weed!
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Lokarin
08/14/19 2:54:33 AM
#6:


How about a "gun damage" tax on the 1%? That way the people in power would be incentivized to fix the problem and if not, will raise funds for victims.

win/win
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Phantom_Nook
08/14/19 2:55:27 AM
#7:


Too bad the NRA owns much of the government.
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Lokarin
08/14/19 2:58:09 AM
#8:


Phantom_Nook posted...
Too bad the NRA owns much of the government.


If the NRA was taxed for Rifle Associated activities within the Nation... maybe they fix stuff?
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hypnox
08/14/19 2:59:35 AM
#9:


Mead posted...
People of sounds mind and morals should be able to have guns designed for hunting or self defense

If a gun is designed to combat humans, no one should have that outside of the military

I think almost everyone can agree with those terms and it seems like a good place to start


Pretty sure the amendment was placed mostly for the people to be able to raise against a bad governing party. You know, like we did with the British. Hard to do that if we have hunting rifles and the government has full auto weapons.
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Kyuubi4269
08/14/19 3:04:16 AM
#10:


hypnox posted...
Mead posted...
People of sounds mind and morals should be able to have guns designed for hunting or self defense

If a gun is designed to combat humans, no one should have that outside of the military

I think almost everyone can agree with those terms and it seems like a good place to start


Pretty sure the amendment was placed mostly for the people to be able to raise against a bad governing party. You know, like we did with the British. Hard to do that if we have hunting rifles and the government has full auto weapons.

Agreed, you guys should ban hunting rifles because they're designed for improper use under the law.
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Mead
08/14/19 3:06:08 AM
#11:


hypnox posted...
Pretty sure the amendment was placed mostly for the people to be able to raise against a bad governing party. You know, like we did with the British. Hard to do that if we have hunting rifles and the government has full auto weapons.


So much wrong with this argument

for one thing the military has far more powerful and advanced weaponry that no member of the public should ever be entrusted with

Secondly, if there ever is a day that the government needs to be overthrown it would be more than achievable with basic firearms given how many more armed people there are in the general population compared to the military

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Mead
08/14/19 3:07:52 AM
#12:


Phantom_Nook posted...
Too bad the NRA owns much of the government.


Yep they obviously have lobbyists but many folks dont realize that a ton of politicians owe money to the NRA because they pay for a ton of campaign ads and they use that debt as leverage to block legislation

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streamofthesky
08/14/19 9:29:41 PM
#13:


RoboXgp89 posted...
mentally ill
wouldn't have happened if he didn't dude weed!

Even though it wasn't actually him that "did" it.

Yeah, this is all kinds of fucked up.

I don't agree w/ buying and hoarding all this crazy militarized gear, but he grew up in a society where it's not seen as bizarre and frightening, in a state that legally allowed people to buy such things openly. He sounds like he personally had no intentions of actually harming people, and I do feel bad that he's going to get made an example of just to satiate peoples' anger.
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Aaantlion
08/14/19 9:33:51 PM
#14:


streamofthesky posted...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/dayton-body-armor-connor-betts-charges/index.html

Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges


You know, when I saw the article title, I thought, "well, I'm sure buying that crazy military grade shit is totes legal, so I assume they nabbed him on conspiring with the shooter, or knowing of his plans and not alerting authorities, or something. Maybe there's some legit crime they can punish this guy for."

NOPE!

Kollie told the agents he enjoyed firearms, owned two pistols and had bought body armor and a firearms accessory for Betts earlier this year, the affidavit says.
The 24-year-old allowed agents to search his home, where they smelled marijuana and saw a water pipe, commonly used to consume cannabis, and a Draco pistol, the affidavit says.

When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Asked why he lied on the federal firearms form, Kollie allegedly told agents that "if he told the truth about his drug use, he would not be allowed to purchase a firearm."
Though US Attorney Benjamin Glassman emphasized that Kollie did not intentionally help plan the Dayton shootings, the affidavit says Kollie acknowledged buying the body armor, a 100-round double drum magazine and an upper receiver for an AR-15, which is part of the gun's frame. All three items were used in the attack, authorities say.

"He does not deny his friendship with Connor Betts and he was as shocked and surprised as everyone else that Mr. Betts committed the violent and senseless massacre in the Oregon District," Nick Gounaris, the attorney, said.
"We appreciate the United States Attorney stating that there was no indication that Mr. Kollie knew that he was assisting Betts in the shooting," the email said.
Kollie is being held in Montgomery County Jail, charged with possession of a firearm by someone who illegally uses or is addicted to a controlled substance, and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.
He will have a detention hearing Wednesday to determine bail, Glassman said. He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted on both counts, the prosecutor said.


Yes, that's the problem! Not that anybody can go out and buy 100 round ammunition drums and body armor...but that a pot head did! Got 'em!

This is such a fucking farce, they're basically throwing him in jail because he smokes pot, they've already admitted he did nothing else wrong (well, nothing else illegal...I find plenty wrong w/ being able to buy that shit casually). And of course, to show that they're "doing something."

How about actually doing something, and FIX THE FUCKING GUN LAWS?!


Uh, what?

Otherwise I hate the wacky tobacky more than anybody here, but even I think it's ridiculous to use that as a reason to disqualify gun purchases.
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Mead
08/14/19 9:35:20 PM
#15:


wacky tobacky


the devils lettuce

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streamofthesky
08/14/19 9:38:03 PM
#16:


Aaantlion posted...
Uh, what?

Otherwise I hate the wacky tobacky more than anybody here, but even I think it's ridiculous to use that as a reason to disqualify gun purchases.


Even more ridiculous is potentially tossing someone in jail for 15 years for daring to combine the two (pot use and gun ownership).

Either you as a government entity think buying these weapons openly is ok, or you don't.
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RoboXgp89
08/14/19 10:19:31 PM
#17:


he actually got screwed
having a small amount of pot shouldn't have gotten him in trouble

if i had that type of gear I wouldn't be messing around with weed either, but it's not like he was growing it or anything
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Lokarin
08/15/19 3:23:39 AM
#18:


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GanglyKhan
08/15/19 7:56:27 AM
#19:


Mead posted...
Secondly, if there ever is a day that the government needs to be overthrown it would be more than achievable with basic firearms given how many more armed people there are in the general population compared to the military

Lmao ok, dude. Thanks for displaying your ignorance so proudly. I'd love to see a dozen rebels with AR-15s attempt to take down an A-10 or an Abrams.

Your own post even contradicts itself. You don't review your posts much, do you?
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Blaqthourne
08/15/19 8:05:25 AM
#20:


streamofthesky posted...
they're basically throwing him in jail because he smokes pot,

Yep, that's exactly why...

streamofthesky posted...
they've already admitted he did nothing else wrong

Uh, huh...

streamofthesky posted...
and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.

Couldn't possibly be because of that.
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streamofthesky
08/15/19 5:40:47 PM
#21:


Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
they're basically throwing him in jail because he smokes pot,

Yep, that's exactly why...

streamofthesky posted...
they've already admitted he did nothing else wrong

Uh, huh...

streamofthesky posted...
and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.

Couldn't possibly be because of that.

What information did he make false statements about, @Blaqthourne ?
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Blaqthourne
08/15/19 7:00:44 PM
#22:


streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

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streamofthesky
08/15/19 7:44:34 PM
#23:


Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Bolded the relevant bit for you, since you apparently missed it.

Glad you agree he's literally being thrown in jail just for doing pot.

Any other loser went out and applied to be a licensed gun owner and bought the shit he did, there'd be ZERO PROBLEMS in the eyes of the law.
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ultra magnus13
08/15/19 8:25:24 PM
#24:


streamofthesky posted...
Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Bolded the relevant bit for you, since you apparently missed it.

Glad you agree he's literally being thrown in jail just for doing pot.

Any other loser went out and applied to be a licensed gun owner and bought the shit he did, there'd be ZERO PROBLEMS in the eyes of the law.


He is not in trouble for owning a gun and smoking pot. He is in trouble for lying on the 4473.
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streamofthesky
08/15/19 8:27:41 PM
#25:


ultra magnus13 posted...
streamofthesky posted...
Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Bolded the relevant bit for you, since you apparently missed it.

Glad you agree he's literally being thrown in jail just for doing pot.

Any other loser went out and applied to be a licensed gun owner and bought the shit he did, there'd be ZERO PROBLEMS in the eyes of the law.


He is not in trouble for owning a gun and smoking pot. He is in trouble for lying on the 4473.

...for lying on the 4473 about smoking pot.
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ultra magnus13
08/17/19 3:00:39 AM
#26:


streamofthesky posted...
ultra magnus13 posted...
streamofthesky posted...
Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Bolded the relevant bit for you, since you apparently missed it.

Glad you agree he's literally being thrown in jail just for doing pot.

Any other loser went out and applied to be a licensed gun owner and bought the shit he did, there'd be ZERO PROBLEMS in the eyes of the law.


He is not in trouble for owning a gun and smoking pot. He is in trouble for lying on the 4473.

...for lying on the 4473 about smoking pot.


They don't have different punishments for lying on different parts of the form. You intentionally lie on * 4473 = felony. If you lie about your address, because you don't have a new dl yet that's a felony as well.
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Mead
08/17/19 3:07:27 AM
#27:


All these psychos doing mass shootings lately, have any of them been on marijuana at the time

I really doubt it cause if they were theyd have just stayed at home playing a video game and not bothering anybody

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streamofthesky
08/17/19 10:05:10 AM
#28:


ultra magnus13 posted...
streamofthesky posted...
ultra magnus13 posted...
streamofthesky posted...
Blaqthourne posted...
streamofthesky posted...
What information did he make false statements about,

streamofthesky posted...
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance.

Bolded the relevant bit for you, since you apparently missed it.

Glad you agree he's literally being thrown in jail just for doing pot.

Any other loser went out and applied to be a licensed gun owner and bought the shit he did, there'd be ZERO PROBLEMS in the eyes of the law.


He is not in trouble for owning a gun and smoking pot. He is in trouble for lying on the 4473.

...for lying on the 4473 about smoking pot.


They don't have different punishments for lying on different parts of the form. You intentionally lie on * 4473 = felony. If you lie about your address, because you don't have a new dl yet that's a felony as well.

Ok, let me break it down for you:
THE CURRENT LAWS ARE FUCKING STUPID

The laws care about whether or not a gun buyer does pot.
But don't care about them being able to buy a fucking 100 round drum of ammo.

Keep pointing out how this guy broke the law. Please. Make it as painfully obvious as possible how fucked up this all is.
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Blighboy
08/17/19 11:15:44 AM
#29:


Mead posted...
All these psychos doing mass shootings lately, have any of them been on marijuana at the time

I really doubt it cause if they were theyd have just stayed at home playing a video game and not bothering anybody

The thing about the devil's lettuce is it can change form to target people more subtly and directly. Sometimes it's a plant. Sometimes it's a video game. But its never a bible. That's the only vaccine.
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