Poll of the Day > Random Continuity Question About The Dark Knight ***SPOILERS***

(+) Yeah! (+)

When Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes are both tied up and wired to oil drums Rachel specifically tells Harvey that he said that they were going to make their friends choose which of them lived.

Obviously this makes sense as something that the Joker would do but it couldnt have been him since he was in police custody when she was kidnapped, something that he makes quite clear in the holding cell when talking to Gordon.

Later we find out that Ramirez kidnapped her, but Ramirez is quite obviously not a he in any sense of the word so Rachel couldnt have been talking about her. That only leaves Ramirezs boss, Salvatore Moroni, as being the likely he she was referring to but then why would she be so ambiguous? Youd think if she was so sure she was about to die shed at least tell Harvey flat out who was responsible so hed be able to prosecute the one responsible, especially if it was the head of the crime family!

The only other option was that he was random grunt #xyz and it doesnt seem likely that a random grunt would be the one to deliver that sort of information...
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The corrupt cops work for Maroni, but they're working under the orders of the Joker (who is himself basically working for/with Maroni at that point).

Essentially, Rachel saying "he said" is probably referencing something she was told by Ramirez, ie, the Joker told Ramirez his intentions, and she in turn told Rachel. Or conversely, the Joker being the Joker, it's entirely possible he did something like record a video of himself gloating about and explaining his plan and then had Ramirez play it for Rachel, because he finds it funny to make them squirm more.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The corrupt cops work for Maroni, but they're working under the orders of the Joker (who is himself basically working for/with Maroni at that point).

Essentially, Rachel saying "he said" is probably referencing something she was told by Ramirez, ie, the Joker told Ramirez his intentions, and she in turn told Rachel. Or conversely, the Joker being the Joker, it's entirely possible he did something like record a video of himself gloating about and explaining his plan and then had Ramirez play it for Rachel, because he finds it funny to make them squirm more.

I thought about a recording since he sent a tape to the studio before, but there was no TV set to show it to her present and I dont imagine theyd lug it in and then haul it back out. I also find it kinda funny to think that maybe the Joker FaceTimed Ramirez to talk to Rachel, but that seemed unlikely.
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the line doesn't use the word "he", the line is actually: "They said only one of us was going to make it. That they'd let our friends choose..."


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aDirtyShisno posted...

but there was no TV set to show it to her present and I dont imagine theyd lug it in and then haul it back out.

Why not? The rest of the scheme already involved a ton of unnecessary effort.

Though something to keep in mind is that this was only 10 years ago. The technology certainly existed for Joker to just film himself via a digital camera, film himself as an .mpg or .wav video, then have Ramirez bring a laptop to show it on. It would be easy to carry in and carry out again.

But again, even that isn't really necessary - all you really need is to have Rachel say something like "Why are you doing this?", and then Ramirez says something like "Joker's orders. He wants you and Dent tied up, to force your friends to decide which one lives and which one dies."
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Sahuagin posted...

the line doesn't use the word "he", the line is actually: "They said only one of us was going to make it. That they'd let our friends choose..."

Its he. I just watched it and noticed that after many times letting it slip by. I rewound the video and put in the subtitles to make sure.

Its he.

He told me that only one of us was gonna make it, and that they were gonna let our friends choose.
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aDirtyShisno posted...

Its he. I just watched it and noticed that after many times letting it slip by. I rewound the video and put in the subtitles to make sure.

Its he.

it's "they". I just watched the clip to confirm, and can see "they" written in the script.

The chair JAMS against a ridge in the floor. Dent STRAINS
to reach the timer. Inches shy.

RACHEL (O.S.)

They said only one of us was going
to make it. That they'd let our...

(pause)

Our friends choose . . .

Dent strains... THE CHAIR, AND DENT, TOPPLE OVER- KNOCKING
OVER A BARREL.

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Sahuagin posted...

aDirtyShisno posted...

Its he. I just watched it and noticed that after many times letting it slip by. I rewound the video and put in the subtitles to make sure.

Its he.

it's "they". I just watched the clip to confirm, and can see "they" written in the script.

The chair JAMS against a ridge in the floor. Dent STRAINS
to reach the timer. Inches shy.

RACHEL (O.S.)

They said only one of us was going
to make it. That they'd let our...

(pause)

Our friends choose . . .

Dent strains... THE CHAIR, AND DENT, TOPPLE OVER- KNOCKING
OVER A BARREL.

Then the script doesnt match what was spoken, and you absolutely didnt just watch it.

He told me that only one of us was gonna make it, and that they were gonna let our friends choose.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQ2MiW1T10" data-time="&start=50

He's right, she does say "they".
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQ2MiW1T10" data-time="&start=50

He's right, she does say "they".

Compressed sound of YouTube sucks. Hear it on your tv and its clearly he, not to mention theres no ey sound. It just kinda sorta sounds like a th sound because of the compression.

Again, the subtitles read he and it sounds like it.
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the subtitles say "they", the script says "they", you can distinctly hear the word "they", and you can even see her touch her tongue to her teeth when she says "they"



(in fairness, in the above image she is saying the word "that")

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Sahuagin posted...

the subtitles say "they", the script says "they", you can distinctly hear the word "they", and you can even see her touch her tongue to her teeth when she says "they"



(in fairness, in the above image she is saying the word "that")

https://imgur.com/YzT9Zpz

Vudu doesnt let the video part get screenshotted, but it still catches the subtitles.

And again are you really using YouTube auto subtitles!? On compressed sound!?
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aDirtyShisno posted...

Vudu doesnt let the video part get screenshotted, but it still catches the subtitles.

subtitles are not necessarily accurate. it is also possible to have multiple versions of the same scene. but at this point my evidence outweighs your evidence and there isn't really anything more to say.

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Sahuagin posted...

aDirtyShisno posted...

Vudu doesnt let the video part get screenshotted, but it still catches the subtitles.

subtitles are not necessarily accurate. it is also possible to have multiple versions of the same scene. but at this point my evidence outweighs your evidence and there isn't really anything more to say.

Your evidence doesnt outweigh my evidence because you are using the compressed audio and not the actual audio. You are also claiming that her tongue forms a Th shape when if it did it would be under the teeth and yet it is clearly behind the teeth where it would make an H shape.
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aDirtyShisno posted...

you are using the compressed audio and not the actual audio

my image is from netflix, not youtube

aDirtyShisno posted...

You are also claiming that her tongue forms a Th shape when if it did it would be under the teeth and yet it is clearly behind the teeth where it would make an H shape.

when she says "that they'd" you can clearly see her tongue stay in the same place for both words, making two consecutive "th" sounds. "that he'd" would look and sound completely different.

you're obviously reaching for some reason here, not sure why.

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Sahuagin posted...

aDirtyShisno posted...

you are using the compressed audio and not the actual audio

my image is from netflix, not youtube

aDirtyShisno posted...

You are also claiming that her tongue forms a Th shape when if it did it would be under the teeth and yet it is clearly behind the teeth where it would make an H shape.

when she says "that they'd" you can clearly see her tongue stay in the same place for both words, making two consecutive "th" sounds. "that he'd" would look and sound completely different.

you're obviously reaching for some reason here, not sure why.

Youre the one reaching. Were talking about he told me not that they. Did you even look at the subtitles I provided?
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Guys, there's like 20 unsolved murder mysteries out there we could be solving, is this really the best use of our collective time?

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deadpigs101 posted...

Guys, there's like 20 unsolved murder mysteries out there we could be solving, is this really the best use of our collective time?

Possibly.

I suppose you could lay out the evidence for one of those murders and we could take a crack at it, but if not well probably just continue on business as usual.
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I always thought Gary Redners was interesting

https://www.readingeagle.com/news/article/a-decade-later-the-search-for-gary-redners-killer-continues

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/72ysen/who_killed_supermarket_executive_gary_redner_and/

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deadpigs101 posted...

I always thought Gary Redners was interesting

https://www.readingeagle.com/news/article/a-decade-later-the-search-for-gary-redners-killer-continues

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/72ysen/who_killed_supermarket_executive_gary_redner_and/

Sounds like he couldve been drunk and trying to open up his neighbors garage instead of his own. Then one of multiple possibilities happened:

1). His neighbor killed him, mistaking him for an intruder.

2). He was killed by a would be robber, who apparently ran off out of fear instead of robbing him.

3). He slighted someone at the bar or on the road home, who followed him to his driveway. In his drunkenness and due to this distraction he pulled up to the wrong house and was killed while trying to get inside.

Thats just off the top of my head from what little is here. Crime scene photos would help immensely but Id wager theyre too gruesome for gamefaqs...
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It's odd that it hasn't been solved yet. IDK if you've been to Redners, but they have signs posted about this at every Redners, you'd think someone would have talked by now


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deadpigs101 posted...

It's odd that it hasn't been solved yet. IDK if you've been to Redners, but they have signs posted about this at every Redners, you'd think someone would have talked by now

Its not too odd statistically. If a crime isnt solved in a short window of time it usually dies and becomes unsolvable. Evidence literally disappears and memories from witnesses becomes less reliable as time marches on.
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