Current Events > Dems seethe over Obama criticism

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Balrog0 08/02/19 4:29:02 PM #1:	https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-obama-biden-1444825 Stay away from Barack: Dems seethe over criticism of Obama Party officials are frustrated that the former presidents record was collateral damage in the debate attacks on Joe Biden. key quote imo I dont know why you would attack Barack Obama or his record or any part of him when hes the most popular person in the party, he added. And I dont think it helps for the general election voters, either. I dont know what theyre thinking. this is all that matters to them --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925532845] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-obama-biden-1444825 Stay away from Barack: Dems seethe over criticism of Obama Party officials are frustrated that the former presidents record was collateral damage in the debate attacks on Joe Biden. key quote imo I dont know why you would attack Barack Obama or his record or any part of him when hes the most popular person in the party, he added. And I dont think it helps for the general election voters, either. I dont know what theyre thinking. this is all that matters to them</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
treewojima 08/02/19 4:29:53 PM #2:	<cite>treewojima posted [p:925532887] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 08/02/19 4:30:01 PM #3:	Lol. I thought the criticism was pretty tame the other night. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:925532893] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Lol. I thought the criticism was pretty tame the other night.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 4:30:16 PM #4:	it's hilarious how progressives are all trying to disown Obama like none of us remember 2008 <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925532905] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>it's hilarious how progressives are all trying to disown Obama like none of us remember 2008</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 4:30:33 PM #5:	Broseph_Stalin posted... it's hilarious how progressives are all trying to disown Obama like none of us remember 2008 I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925532922] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>it's hilarious how progressives are all trying to disown Obama like none of us remember 2008</quote> I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
meralonne 08/02/19 4:30:38 PM #6:	Kind of like how not an unkind word can be uttered about Reagan by Republicans? --- "Sigs are for dorks."-- my wife <cite>meralonne posted [p:925532927] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Kind of like how not an unkind word can be uttered about Reagan by Republicans?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ToPoPO 08/02/19 4:30:50 PM #7:	Because even though he was awful and bombed the ever living shit out of innocent lives, criticizing him like this doesn't help versus Trump. <cite>ToPoPO posted [p:925532939] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Because even though he was awful and bombed the ever living shit out of innocent lives, criticizing him like this doesn't help versus Trump.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 08/02/19 4:31:22 PM #8:	https://twitter.com/AdamWeinstein/status/1157094975848484867 Neera Tanden is the head of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:925532961] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/AdamWeinstein/status/1157094975848484867 Neera Tanden is the head of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheVipaGTS 08/02/19 4:32:26 PM #9:	Obama is still my favorite President. --- Dallas Cowboys: 1 - 1 <cite>TheVipaGTS posted [p:925533005] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Obama is still my favorite President. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Intro2Logic 08/02/19 4:33:31 PM #10:	A lot of Trump rhetoric about his immigration policy has been that he's just continuing Obama-era policies. That's not really true, but Democrats unwilling to criticize Obama's record will play into the Trump claim that "they only care when he does it." --- Have you tried thinking rationally? <cite>Intro2Logic posted [p:925533044] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>A lot of Trump rhetoric about his immigration policy has been that he's just continuing Obama-era policies. That's not really true, but Democrats unwilling to criticize Obama's record will play into the Trump claim that "they only care when he does it."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 4:33:53 PM #11:	Antifar posted... https://twitter.com/AdamWeinstein/status/1157094975848484867 Neera Tanden is the head of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank Yeah, my response to her tweet was ' Reagan hagiography was healthy and good for the american political system' --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925533069] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/AdamWeinstein/status/1157094975848484867 Neera Tanden is the head of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank</quote> Yeah, my response to her tweet was ' Reagan hagiography was healthy and good for the american political system'</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Funkydog 08/02/19 4:35:17 PM #13:	Criticising Obama in context is perfectly valid and he deserves FAR more than he got, and should still get more for his actions. In context is key though. Attacking him, when not relevant, doesn't do much. But when you were that man's vice president? You also have to bear the consequences and face the music for what happened under his administration. --- https://imgur.com/BGbZK <cite>Funkydog posted [p:925533148] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Criticising Obama in context is perfectly valid and he deserves FAR more than he got, and should still get more for his actions. In context is key though. Attacking him, when not relevant, doesn't do much. But when you were that man's vice president? You also have to bear the consequences and face the music for what happened under his administration.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MonkeyBones23 08/02/19 4:38:13 PM #14:	Deportations are pretty much the only thing Obama could be criticized for. I think it'll be fine. --- We're a forest of lives, but we grow tall and wide. We'll never be cut down. <cite>MonkeyBones23 posted [p:925533252] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Deportations are pretty much the only thing Obama could be criticized for. I think it'll be fine.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 4:41:17 PM #15:	Balrog0 posted... I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? Clinton was the moderate, establishment candidate in 2008 and Obama the outsider trying to move the party to the left. Progressives flocked to him then, now they want to pretend they never liked him and he's basically a Republican. They would do the same thing to Sanders if by some miracle he actually became President. <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925533378] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean?</quote> Clinton was the moderate, establishment candidate in 2008 and Obama the outsider trying to move the party to the left. Progressives flocked to him then, now they want to pretend they never liked him and he's basically a Republican. They would do the same thing to Sanders if by some miracle he actually became President.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 08/02/19 4:42:55 PM #16:	I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters? --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:925533475] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 08/02/19 4:45:34 PM #17:	Broseph_Stalin posted... Balrog0 posted... I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? Clinton was the moderate, establishment candidate in 2008 and Obama the outsider trying to move the party to the left. Progressives flocked to him then, now they want to pretend they never liked him and he's basically a Republican. They would do the same thing to Sanders if by some miracle he actually became President. The ideological lines of the 08 primary weren't nearly that clear-cut. At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. It's entirely reasonable to hold different views on him now than one did then. I haven't seen many people pretending to have never liked him, but I have seen a lot of people who cite their disappointment with him as a jumping off point to more radical politics. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:925533594] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean?</quote> Clinton was the moderate, establishment candidate in 2008 and Obama the outsider trying to move the party to the left. Progressives flocked to him then, now they want to pretend they never liked him and he's basically a Republican. They would do the same thing to Sanders if by some miracle he actually became President.</quote> The ideological lines of the 08 primary weren't nearly that clear-cut. At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. It's entirely reasonable to hold different views on him now than one did then. I haven't seen many people pretending to have never liked him, but I have seen a lot of people who cite their disappointment with him as a jumping off point to more radical politics.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 08/02/19 4:45:39 PM #18:	I thought it was hilarious that they spent more time in the debates hammering Obama than Trump. --- "life is overrated" - Seiichi Omori 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:925533598] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>I thought it was hilarious that they spent more time in the debates hammering Obama than Trump.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 08/02/19 4:49:06 PM #19:	Antifar posted... I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters? I know Tim Kaine and Evan Bayh were also on the short list. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:925533737] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters?</quote> I know Tim Kaine and Evan Bayh were also on the short list.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 4:57:44 PM #20:	Antifar posted... At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. Now imagine what happens when President Sanders realizes he doesn't have the power to raise a trillion dollars in new tax revenue every year, needs votes to pass legislation and he's not the first person to come up with "sitting down with people" to solve foreign policy issues. <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925534100] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. </quote> Now imagine what happens when President Sanders realizes he doesn't have the power to raise a trillion dollars in new tax revenue every year, needs votes to pass legislation and he's not the first person to come up with "sitting down with people" to solve foreign policy issues.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ElatedVenusaur 08/02/19 4:57:58 PM #21:	Anteaterking posted... Antifar posted... I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters? I know Tim Kaine and Evan Bayh were also on the short list. And Kathleen Sebelius. That was the four. Biden, well, he probably belongs in the top half of that list. <cite>ElatedVenusaur posted [p:925534112] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>I will add, for as much as Biden touts that Obama chose him as his VP, wasn't it common wisdom at the time that that decision was made to shore up the ticket among more conservative, whiter voters?</quote> I know Tim Kaine and Evan Bayh were also on the short list.</quote> And Kathleen Sebelius. That was the four. Biden, well, he probably belongs in the top half of that list.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blackstar110 08/02/19 5:00:54 PM #22:	It is profoundly weird to me that suddenly learning from the past or appreciating what went right and what went wrong is "taboo" or "in-fighting." It's not like they went up there and called Obama a bitch. Obama seems like a good dude and got some stuff done but by and large spent eight years getting punked by McConnell and people were so uninspired that the party's handchosen successor got beaten by a wannabe fascist reality TV star. It's okay to realize that maybe we need to present a more compelling vision. --- -Shred <cite>Blackstar110 posted [p:925534215] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>It is profoundly weird to me that suddenly learning from the past or appreciating what went right and what went wrong is "taboo" or "in-fighting." It's not like they went up there and called Obama a bitch. Obama seems like a good dude and got some stuff done but by and large spent eight years getting punked by McConnell and people were so uninspired that the party's handchosen successor got beaten by a wannabe fascist reality TV star. It's okay to realize that maybe we need to present a more compelling vision.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 5:42:08 PM #23:	Broseph_Stalin posted... Antifar posted... At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. Now imagine what happens when President Sanders realizes he doesn't have the power to raise a trillion dollars in new tax revenue every year, needs votes to pass legislation and he's not the first person to come up with "sitting down with people" to solve foreign policy issues. I still don't understand what you're trying to say. So if Sanders doesn't govern as a progressive under his hypothetical presidency that means... Progressives should be okay with it? Or what is your point here? --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925535777] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>At any rate, Obama's 08 campaign did not translate into a progressive presidency. </quote> Now imagine what happens when President Sanders realizes he doesn't have the power to raise a trillion dollars in new tax revenue every year, needs votes to pass legislation and he's not the first person to come up with "sitting down with people" to solve foreign policy issues.</quote> I still don't understand what you're trying to say. So if Sanders doesn't govern as a progressive under his hypothetical presidency that means... Progressives should be okay with it? Or what is your point here?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 6:16:32 PM #24:	Balrog0 posted... I still don't understand what you're trying to say. So if Sanders doesn't govern as a progressive under his hypothetical presidency that means... Progressives should be okay with it? Or what is your point here? You'd be lucky just to get a progressive in the white house and yet you're all demanding he govern in a way not even possible. You might as well not even participate in politics if you're going to have this disdain for incremental change. <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925537046] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I still don't understand what you're trying to say. So if Sanders doesn't govern as a progressive under his hypothetical presidency that means... Progressives should be okay with it? Or what is your point here?</quote> You'd be lucky just to get a progressive in the white house and yet you're all demanding he govern in a way not even possible. You might as well not even participate in politics if you're going to have this disdain for incremental change.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 6:29:58 PM #25:	Broseph_Stalin posted... You'd be lucky just to get a progressive in the white house and yet you're all demanding he govern in a way not even possible. How do you mean? Immigration enforcement and foreign policy are the domain of the executive branch. You can govern it the way you want to, like the Trump administration and the Bush administration before it showed us. Maybe we should assume that the Obama administration was governed the way he wanted it to be governed, too? Legislatively, I agree with you, but the funny thing about that is that the President wanted to pull back on the ACA and Pelosi is the one who pushed it over his misgivings. Rahm Emmanuel, his chief of staff at the time, was openly talking about doing a less comprehensive reform that mainly expanded coverage for kids after Kennedy died. https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/pelosi-steeled-wh-for-health-push-034753 Broseph_Stalin posted... You might as well not even participate in politics if you're going to have this disdain for incremental change. funny you say this because: I think [Pelosi] is the one who has kept the steel in the presidents back and I think she represents that to Harry Reid, too, Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-Calif.), Pelosis closest friend in Congress, told POLITICO. White Houses end up with how do I say this? they take an incrementalism pill, added Eshoo. But Nancy Pelosi is not an incrementalist. Neither is Obama, says Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), its just that he moves more deliberately. I dont think [the White House] were there from Day One, but they were from Day Two, he said. I think they knew this would be the way. kind of funny that what counts as incrementalism is in the eye of the beholder imo --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925537553] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>You'd be lucky just to get a progressive in the white house and yet you're all demanding he govern in a way not even possible.</quote> How do you mean? Immigration enforcement and foreign policy are the domain of the executive branch. You can govern it the way you want to, like the Trump administration and the Bush administration before it showed us. Maybe we should assume that the Obama administration was governed the way he wanted it to be governed, too? Legislatively, I agree with you, but the funny thing about that is that the President wanted to pull back on the ACA and Pelosi is the one who pushed it over his misgivings. Rahm Emmanuel, his chief of staff at the time, was openly talking about doing a less comprehensive reform that mainly expanded coverage for kids after Kennedy died. https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/pelosi-steeled-wh-for-health-push-034753 Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>You might as well not even participate in politics if you're going to have this disdain for incremental change. </quote> funny you say this because: I think [Pelosi] is the one who has kept the steel in the presidents back and I think she represents that to Harry Reid, too, Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-Calif.), Pelosis closest friend in Congress, told POLITICO. White Houses end up with how do I say this? they take an incrementalism pill, added Eshoo. But Nancy Pelosi is not an incrementalist. Neither is Obama, says Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), its just that he moves more deliberately. I dont think [the White House] were there from Day One, but they were from Day Two, he said. I think they knew this would be the way. kind of funny that what counts as incrementalism is in the eye of the beholder imo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 6:56:30 PM #26:	Balrog0 posted... How do you mean? Immigration enforcement and foreign policy are the domain of the executive branch. You can govern it the way you want to, like the Trump administration and the Bush administration before it showed us. Significant immigration reform would require legislation, and as far as executive action goes I wouldn't expect much change there since Trump and Bernie largely agree on immigration, free trade, etc. And while I'm in agreeance that Pelosi is one example of an effective progressive politician, you can't deny the amount of criticism she's been getting lately from the left-wing of her party over being more pragmatic. <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925538539] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>How do you mean? Immigration enforcement and foreign policy are the domain of the executive branch. You can govern it the way you want to, like the Trump administration and the Bush administration before it showed us. </quote> Significant immigration reform would require legislation, and as far as executive action goes I wouldn't expect much change there since Trump and Bernie largely agree on immigration, free trade, etc. And while I'm in agreeance that Pelosi is one example of an effective progressive politician, you can't deny the amount of criticism she's been getting lately from the left-wing of her party over being more pragmatic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 7:52:41 PM #27:	Broseph_Stalin posted... Significant immigration reform would require legislation, and as far as executive action goes I wouldn't expect much change there since Trump and Bernie largely agree on immigration, free trade, etc. You think so? They seem significantly different on both things even though they both oppose open borders and FTAs -- as do many of the other dem competitors. Even Castro said he wasn't open borders. Broseph_Stalin posted... And while I'm in agreeance that Pelosi is one example of an effective progressive politician, you can't deny the amount of criticism she's been getting lately from the left-wing of her party over being more pragmatic. What's wrong with that? What was progressive a decade ago isn't always durable. Remember, Bill Clinton was broadly popular as recently as 2014. Do you think Democrats shouldn't criticize things like the crime bill because it reflects poorly on him? Remember, Obama attacked Clinton in the primary himself: --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925540711] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>Significant immigration reform would require legislation, and as far as executive action goes I wouldn't expect much change there since Trump and Bernie largely agree on immigration, free trade, etc.</quote> You think so? They seem significantly different on both things even though they both oppose open borders and FTAs -- as do many of the other dem competitors. Even Castro said he wasn't open borders. Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>And while I'm in agreeance that Pelosi is one example of an effective progressive politician, you can't deny the amount of criticism she's been getting lately from the left-wing of her party over being more pragmatic. </quote> What's wrong with that? What was progressive a decade ago isn't always durable. Remember, Bill Clinton was broadly popular as recently as 2014. Do you think Democrats shouldn't criticize things like the crime bill because it reflects poorly on him? Remember, Obama attacked Clinton in the primary himself: </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 08/02/19 8:11:59 PM #28:	https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1157442415646691328 --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:925541425] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1157442415646691328</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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TheMikh 08/02/19 8:19:55 PM #30:	The sooner the dems admit that we were all stooges for Obama's blatantly neoliberal (and neoconservative, following in Bush's footsteps in many regards) agenda, the sooner the party can move forward in a more constructive manner. --- https://imgur.com/A0TAfek <cite>TheMikh posted [p:925541688] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>The sooner the dems admit that we were all stooges for Obama's blatantly neoliberal (and neoconservative, following in Bush's footsteps in many regards) agenda, the sooner the party can move forward in a more constructive manner.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 08/02/19 8:21:07 PM #32:	Godnorgosh posted... Balrog0 posted... I dont know why you would attack Barack Obama or his record or any part of him when hes the most popular person in the party False is that false? is AOC more popular now or something? --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925541735] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Godnorgosh posted...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I dont know why you would attack Barack Obama or his record or any part of him when hes the most popular person in the party</quote> False</quote> is that false? is AOC more popular now or something?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SapphireTech462 08/02/19 9:55:33 PM #34:	Too bad Obama cant be president again, hes way better than those candidates we have to choose from... --- 3TEETH - METAWAR - Metal - 2019 <cite>SapphireTech462 posted [p:925544866] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Too bad Obama cant be president again, hes way better than those candidates we have to choose from...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 08/02/19 10:25:07 PM #35:	Balrog0 posted... They seem significantly different on both things even though they both oppose open borders and FTAs I'm not sure what you mean by significantly different even though they agree. Neither support free trade or freedom of movement. Balrog0 posted... What's wrong with that? They are critisizing her not for her politics, but because of her pragmatism. Godnorgosh posted... Unless something changed recently, Bernie Sanders is the most popular living Senator and politician in the DP. lol <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:925545817] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>They seem significantly different on both things even though they both oppose open borders and FTAs</quote> I'm not sure what you mean by significantly different even though they agree. Neither support free trade or freedom of movement. Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>What's wrong with that?</quote> They are critisizing her not for her politics, but because of her pragmatism. Godnorgosh posted...</cite> <quote>Unless something changed recently, Bernie Sanders is the most popular living Senator and politician in the DP. </quote> lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/02/19 10:33:09 PM #36:	Broseph_Stalin posted... I'm not sure what you mean by significantly different even though they agree. Neither support free trade or freedom of movement. I'm not sure why someone who supposedly believe in incremental change is acting like there are only binary choices here. Especially when I just pointed out that even the most pro-immigrant candidate, Castro, openly (and dishonestly) called open borders a right wing talking point, the exact thing that Bernie said that gets him pinned as anti immigrant. Broseph_Stalin posted... They are critisizing her not for her politics, but because of her pragmatism Her politics are being criticized because people think she is being too appeasing to conservatives with nothing to show for it. You can disagree with that if you want, but it's just a different theories of change not eschewing pragmatism in the sense of not wanting to move policies forward. --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925546088] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote> I'm not sure what you mean by significantly different even though they agree. Neither support free trade or freedom of movement.</quote> I'm not sure why someone who supposedly believe in incremental change is acting like there are only binary choices here. Especially when I just pointed out that even the most pro-immigrant candidate, Castro, openly (and dishonestly) called open borders a right wing talking point, the exact thing that Bernie said that gets him pinned as anti immigrant. Broseph_Stalin posted...</cite> <quote>They are critisizing her not for her politics, but because of her pragmatism</quote> Her politics are being criticized because people think she is being too appeasing to conservatives with nothing to show for it. You can disagree with that if you want, but it's just a different theories of change not eschewing pragmatism in the sense of not wanting to move policies forward.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 08/02/19 10:35:57 PM #38:	Would you say Obama and trump are the same because they both deported lots of people? I feel like you might point out differences in, say, catch and release and family separation as pretty big difference. But maybe you are consistent on this issue. --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:925546188] in Dems seeth... [t:77909919]...</cite> <quote>Would you say Obama and trump are the same because they both deported lots of people? I feel like you might point out differences in, say, catch and release and family separation as pretty big difference. But maybe you are consistent on this issue.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Dems seethe over Obama criticism (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Dems seethe over Obama criticism