Current Events > Oh look the Smash community is defending a 15 year old for using the n-word

(+) Yeah! (+)

MorbidFaithless posted...

bover_87 posted...

I mean, it's pretty clearly trolling, and he has a history of garbage posting like that.

But he's right??

Young racists: theyre young, they don't know any better!!
Old racists: theyre old, they don't know any better!!

When does accountability begin?

Trolling mods generally aren't based on right/wrong, they tend to be more based on how you say it. Overbroad generalizations like the ones he was making are basically guaranteed to be modded if marked.
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Frisbee might be onto something. In middle school I had a white friend tell me before walking in his bday party that his other friends might be a lil crazy. When asked him what that meant he literally broke down and said I didnt know black people before I went to this school. Im not like them. All of them were cool they didnt say shit wild but he was prepared that they might say some shit that might get me mad.
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shockthemonkey posted...

15 is old enough to not be this sort of racist ass shitty person

should she get death threats? no. but anyone defending her is a moron.
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Frisbee is 100% correct and the fact he's Suspended is a joke.

Continually playing this off as "kids will be kids" and "they don't know better" when they're young is fucking stupid. How many incidents has the University of Oklahoma had alone in the last few years? It's proof they don't grow out of this shit.
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So are we pretending 15 year olds aren't immature? I'm not defending her, but taking out the pitchforks isn't the right response.

In other news, I really hope that Frisbee guy wasn't suspended because he disagreed with mods. Nothing he said in this thread was worthy of a suspension.

Bio1590 posted...

Frisbee is 100% correct and the fact he's Suspended is a joke.

because fighting racism with racism is always good
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Bio1590 posted...

Frisbee is 100% correct and the fact he's Suspended is a joke.

Continually playing this off as "kids will be kids" and "they don't know better" when they're young is fucking stupid. How many incidents has the University of Oklahoma had alone in the last few years? It's proof they don't grow out of this shit.

He wasn't suspended for saying 15 year olds are enough to be held accountable. He was suspended for (once again) openly stating that racism is a uniquely white problem. The fact that all his posts related to your mutual point are still up is evidence enough of that.
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It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally
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Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.
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Leffen isnt here for it

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/1152509599993487363?s=19
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s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?
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Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

This. posting racist shit online IS an action.
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BeantownHero posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

This. posting racist shit online IS an action.

It's literally s0nicfan
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Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

Words aren't generally criminal offenses, for one. Usually when someone is saying "throw the book at them" its something like an armed robbery, or looting, or some other fairly serious offense. I mean... give me an example of a crime a 15 year old could commit that would have CEmen saying to throw the book at them that is comparable to "they said a taboo word".
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BeantownHero posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

This. posting racist shit online IS an action.

Well, I don't really agree with that exactly... Words and actions are differwnt, and have different consequences. But why shouldn't they both have consequences? And who gets to decide. what those are?
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s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

Words aren't generally criminal offenses, for one. Usually when someone is saying "throw the book at them" its something like an armed robbery, or looting, or some other fairly serious offense. I mean... give me an example of a crime a 15 year old could commit that would have CEmen saying to throw the book at them that is comparable to "they said a taboo word".

No, those are good examples. Why does a 15 year old armed robber deserve to be tried as an adult, but we shouldn't. let words 'ruin' a 15 year olds life in the sense it takes away unique opportunities, like going to Harvard or playing games for a living?
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Define "smash community" because I don't imagine most prominent players endorsing this behavior
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Interesting twist. The twitter user that called her out also in turn had someone call them out for some archived chats.

Basically context is important. I think having unbiased skepticism and empathy isnt a bad thing. I believe many people are defending the complexity of the adolescent and social condition, not racism itself. Also it just shows you that its often a he who hath not sinned may cast the first stone situation. Answering ignorance/hate with ignorance/hate is not productive.

As for frisbeedude, Im not sure what the intention was but it came off to me as heres a racist generalization but when you call it out Ill bait and switch it to something more specific and defensible and towed it as a gotchya moment. The speed at which they had those links ready was interesting.

In their benefit the post cant be dug up a few years from now out of context. Irony has been avoided.
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Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

Words aren't generally criminal offenses, for one. Usually when someone is saying "throw the book at them" its something like an armed robbery, or looting, or some other fairly serious offense. I mean... give me an example of a crime a 15 year old could commit that would have CEmen saying to throw the book at them that is comparable to "they said a taboo word".

No, those are good examples. Why does a 15 year old armed robber deserve to be tried as an adult, but we shouldn't. let words 'ruin' a 15 year olds life in the sense it takes away unique opportunities, like going to Harvard or playing games for a living?

Because one risks the life of another person and the other doesn't? I'm sure there are plenty of cases of petty shoplifting offenses where the kid is let off because he showed remorse and "kids make mistakes". I'm also not saying the smash kid deserves no repercussions, btw, but I firmly disagree with the notion that there is equivalency between a major criminal offense and a word.
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s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

Words aren't generally criminal offenses, for one. Usually when someone is saying "throw the book at them" its something like an armed robbery, or looting, or some other fairly serious offense. I mean... give me an example of a crime a 15 year old could commit that would have CEmen saying to throw the book at them that is comparable to "they said a taboo word".

No, those are good examples. Why does a 15 year old armed robber deserve to be tried as an adult, but we shouldn't. let words 'ruin' a 15 year olds life in the sense it takes away unique opportunities, like going to Harvard or playing games for a living?

Because one risks the life of another person and the other doesn't? I'm sure there are plenty of cases of petty shoplifting offenses where the kid is let off because he showed remorse. I'm also not saying the smash kid deserves no repercussions, btw, but I firmly disagree with the notion that there is equivalency between a major criminal offense and a word.

I'm not saying they're the same, i actually responded to someone to emphasize they aren't. My point is I don't see yet why leniency compared to an adult is justified in one case and not the other, no one has explained that. You saying it's less. severe, to me, just. means we should respond less badly to the n word than robbery, and says nothing. about special leniency for 15 year olds in doing either

Sry about the weird punctuation, phones acting weird
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RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Let's please not destroy a 15 year old's life over this kind of thing. Condemn the behavior, but scale it back. This is a child, with plenty of time ahead of them to figure out their morals. Let's not immediately and permanently turn them into a monster. That kind of treatment, regardless of whether it was brought upon themselves or not, ruins kids' entire adult lives and they will likely never function properly, especially a kid who is clearly already with a shitty outlook on life.

15 year old black children have had their lives destroyed by racists, even those the same age as themselves.

But its the white racists that need to be protected so that their lives can become something worthwhile?
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Gamers were a mistake, what a surprise
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The smash community has a strong case for being the most toxic of any game community
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CapnMuffin posted...

Interesting twist. The twitter user that called her out also in turn had someone call them out for some archived chats.

Basically context is important. I think having unbiased skepticism and empathy isnt a bad thing. I believe many people are defending the complexity of the adolescent and social condition, not racism itself. Also it just shows you that its often a he who hath not sinned may cast the first stone situation. Answering ignorance/hate with ignorance/hate is not productive.

As for frisbeedude, Im not sure what the intention was but it came off to me as heres a racist generalization but when you call it out Ill bait and switch it to something more specific and defensible and towed it as a gotchya moment. The speed at which they had those links ready was interesting.

In their benefit the post cant be dug up a few years from now out of context. Irony has been avoided.

Because this is hardly the first time he would have had to use them, and a couple of those incidents I recognize as having decently-sized topics on here (the Nazi salute one in Wisconsin in particular). I know I save links if I think or know I'll need them again.
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Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Balrog0 posted...

It's just weird to me how so many people will say about a 15 y/o committing a crime, "when I was 15 i knew x was wrong, throw the book at them" but when something like this happens it's more like "well im sure you said horrible stuff at that age, I'm sure they'll grow out of it just like you/I did"

Seems inconsistent morally

I mean... presumably most people separate words from actions. Saying something at 15 isn't exactly the same as doing something at 15.

What's the difference?

Words aren't generally criminal offenses, for one. Usually when someone is saying "throw the book at them" its something like an armed robbery, or looting, or some other fairly serious offense. I mean... give me an example of a crime a 15 year old could commit that would have CEmen saying to throw the book at them that is comparable to "they said a taboo word".

No, those are good examples. Why does a 15 year old armed robber deserve to be tried as an adult, but we shouldn't. let words 'ruin' a 15 year olds life in the sense it takes away unique opportunities, like going to Harvard or playing games for a living?

Because one risks the life of another person and the other doesn't? I'm sure there are plenty of cases of petty shoplifting offenses where the kid is let off because he showed remorse. I'm also not saying the smash kid deserves no repercussions, btw, but I firmly disagree with the notion that there is equivalency between a major criminal offense and a word.

I'm not saying they're the same, i actually responded to someone to emphasize they aren't. My point is I don't see yet why leniency compared to an adult is justified in one case and not the other, no one has explained that. You saying it's less. severe, to me, just. means we should respond less badly to the n word than robbery, and says nothing. about special leniency for 15 year olds in doing either

Sry about the weird punctuation, phones acting weird

I guess my point is that the level of leniency in general should be a factor of the severity of the consequences of the actions performed. That's true of adults, and it's true of kids, too. Kids just also get more leniency in general because there's a greater chance that they can turn things around in their life than an adult. A child can legitimately not understand the full scope of their actions, but when it starts to approach "murdering someone" that's where it's tougher to argue that they don't understand the consequences of their actions. Some actions have unintended consequences a kid might not have foreseen, but when you bring a gun to a robbery it's tough to say that "someone might get shot" is an unforeseen consequence.

So presumably an adult committing petty theft should be more likely to get a light sentence or let off with community service / "time served" than an adult committing armed robbery, too.
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If she has sponsors then they need to drop her and she should be banned from any tournaments.

She knows better to say the stupid shit she did. Her parents must not have taught her that racism is wrong.
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Bio1590 posted...

Frisbee is 100% correct and the fact he's Suspended is a joke.

Continually playing this off as "kids will be kids" and "they don't know better" when they're young is fucking stupid. How many incidents has the University of Oklahoma had alone in the last few years? It's proof they don't grow out of this shit.

I mean, hes correct in that juvenile racism is a problem in kids but by no means is it limited to white kids lol. Its nothing short of intellectual dishonesty to try to pass that solely off as the truth.
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So if I follow correctly (this thread is the first time I've heard about her or any of this issue), she not only threw the word around, but said she likes to lynch N*****? The latter seems a bit more severe than using the word in an insult...

Bass_X0 posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Let's please not destroy a 15 year old's life over this kind of thing. Condemn the behavior, but scale it back. This is a child, with plenty of time ahead of them to figure out their morals. Let's not immediately and permanently turn them into a monster. That kind of treatment, regardless of whether it was brought upon themselves or not, ruins kids' entire adult lives and they will likely never function properly, especially a kid who is clearly already with a shitty outlook on life.

15 year old black children have had their lives destroyed by racists, even those the same age as themselves.

But its the white racists that need to be protected so that their lives can become something worthwhile?

She definitely do not deserve praise, but some people grow up and change. I feel like yes we should condemn her actions, but she should not have her life destroyed because of this. Ignorance can be cured with proper education.
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shut the fuck up
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Stroder handled this infinitely better than Bocchi did. She went the "pls pity me" route and then deleted her twitter cuz she's a coward. He kept it real, AND kept his twitter up and I can respect that at least.
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Her life wont be destroyed lol just kick her out of the competitive gaming community and move on.
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CapnMuffin posted...

Interesting twist. The twitter user that called her out also in turn had someone call them out for some archived chats.

surprise surprise those justice warriors don't care for racism, just using victims as a stepping stone to attack others.
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Oh... I have seen the actual text. It's way worse than I thought. I thought she did a lame joke.
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Racism will never die. At least not so long as people will always go to bat for racists. It's always "just a joke bro, relax" or "They're kids! old! Disabled! etc" never do people stop to shame them and correct it. Instead they double down and refuse to admit their wrong doing or admit racism is alive and well and never left.

Balnazarr posted...

Racism will never die. At least not so long as people will always go to bat for racists. It's always "just a joke bro, relax" or "They're kids! old! Disabled! etc" never do people stop to shame them and correct it. Instead they double down and refuse to admit their wrong doing or admit racism is alive and well and never left.

I don't think people think what she said was ok. I think people believe she is young and can correct her behaviour by educating herself.
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epik_fail1 posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Let's please not destroy a 15 year old's life over this kind of thing. Condemn the behavior, but scale it back. This is a child, with plenty of time ahead of them to figure out their morals. Let's not immediately and permanently turn them into a monster. That kind of treatment, regardless of whether it was brought upon themselves or not, ruins kids' entire adult lives and they will likely never function properly, especially a kid who is clearly already with a shitty outlook on life.

15 year old black children have had their lives destroyed by racists, even those the same age as themselves.

But its the white racists that need to be protected so that their lives can become something worthwhile?

She definitely do not deserve praise, but some people grow up and change. I feel like yes we should condemn her actions, but she should not have her life destroyed because of this. Ignorance can be cured with proper education.

Meanwhile, black kids are committing suicide over being targeted by racists. But oh no, dont anyone dare destroy the life of a white racist.
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Bio1590 posted...

Frisbee is 100% correct and the fact he's Suspended is a joke.

Continually playing this off as "kids will be kids" and "they don't know better" when they're young is fucking stupid. How many incidents has the University of Oklahoma had alone in the last few years? It's proof they don't grow out of this shit.

Sorry but blanket statements aren't good. You say it as if no one has ever said something as a teen that they later "grew out of".
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Bass_X0 posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Let's please not destroy a 15 year old's life over this kind of thing. Condemn the behavior, but scale it back. This is a child, with plenty of time ahead of them to figure out their morals. Let's not immediately and permanently turn them into a monster. That kind of treatment, regardless of whether it was brought upon themselves or not, ruins kids' entire adult lives and they will likely never function properly, especially a kid who is clearly already with a shitty outlook on life.

15 year old black children have had their lives destroyed by racists, even those the same age as themselves.

But its the white racists that need to be protected so that their lives can become something worthwhile?

She definitely do not deserve praise, but some people grow up and change. I feel like yes we should condemn her actions, but she should not have her life destroyed because of this. Ignorance can be cured with proper education.

Meanwhile, black kids are committing suicide over being targeted by racists. But oh no, dont anyone dare destroy the life of a white racist.

I'm gay and I forgave homophobes. Lgbt also commit suicides too. Educating homophobes and change their views a more powerful message than ruining their lives. The way you act is sending the message "stay racist/homophobic, we will never accept that you changed" and make the ignorants more likely to be radicalised by far right propaganda. You probably used "gay" as an insult at least once if your life too and someone could ruin your life with some screenshots just saying.
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there are worse things in the world to get pissed at
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AlmightyCheeks posted...

there are worse things in the world to get pissed at

Nah, racism in all its forms is high up there of things to get pissed at.
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It cant be "racism is dead" and "we shouldn't take this racism seriously" at the same time
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No one is saying she should be hanged, drawn and quartered IRL. But a ban or losing a sponsorship is absolutely called for and totally reasonable.

epik_fail1 posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Let's please not destroy a 15 year old's life over this kind of thing. Condemn the behavior, but scale it back. This is a child, with plenty of time ahead of them to figure out their morals. Let's not immediately and permanently turn them into a monster. That kind of treatment, regardless of whether it was brought upon themselves or not, ruins kids' entire adult lives and they will likely never function properly, especially a kid who is clearly already with a shitty outlook on life.

15 year old black children have had their lives destroyed by racists, even those the same age as themselves.

But its the white racists that need to be protected so that their lives can become something worthwhile?

She definitely do not deserve praise, but some people grow up and change. I feel like yes we should condemn her actions, but she should not have her life destroyed because of this. Ignorance can be cured with proper education.

Meanwhile, black kids are committing suicide over being targeted by racists. But oh no, dont anyone dare destroy the life of a white racist.

I'm gay and I forgave homophobes. Lgbt also commit suicides too. Educating homophobes and change their views a more powerful message than ruining their lives. The way you act is sending the message "stay racist/homophobic, we will never accept that you changed" and make the ignorants more likely to be radicalised by far right propaganda. You probably used "gay" as an insult at least once if your life too and someone could ruin your life with some screenshots just saying.

Nope. I have never once used gay as an insult.

And Im not gay or black, but I find forgiving a racist or homophobe only enables them to continue being a racist or homophobe. Forgiveness is not justice. Forgiveness contributes nothing to decreasing the amount of racism and homophobic attacks in the world. Racists and homophobes will only start to learn when they are on the receiving end of justice not forgiveness.
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