Board 8 > Wwe mafia Topic 3.

(+) Yeah! (+)

##unvote
##vote: Tom

SBell I think we are both being set up as easy town lynches after scum let us argue with each other for so long. Thats the reason I changed my mind on you and started to focus more on the people that initially suspected you, like Han and now Tom. I feel like one of us has to be lynched in order to expose this though unfortunately. What are your thoughts?

5tarscream posted...

I actually do have another point because I cant sleep at the moment.
Pez/puns/Ulti/Panth if I am lynched today, when I flip town how will this change your reads on Tom, Scare and Han. You either think literally all 3 of them have accidentally lynched town or theyve played their hand way too soon and their scum. At least one of them has to be scum so who do you think is most likely?
I think SBell is honestly still distracted by his initial misread on me and hasnt actually read what I posted from a neutral position. Hes looking to find something instead of just looking.

Probably wouldn't change my read on Han or Tom. I'm about to remind everyone why Han is town. Then I'm going to go back and read the first two topics like I said I wanted to.
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So you simply think they are mistaken. Well I mean you think Im scum and Im not but when I flip town youll just dismiss this as oh I guess they were wrong and give them a pass?

Leafeon13N posted...

Obellisk posted...

It just felt so. "oh yeah roommate powers... Let's make a vote in agreement".

That is literally it.

Doesn't make me feel better about the vote.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Why doesn't that just mean Ulti is the scum

after letting it sit for a bit, it seemed more like a reaching town than a scum (wait was that the conversation you were talking about pez)

come to think of it didn't ulti later say the whole thing was a gambit anyway?
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I was thinking that maybe you made a mistake playing your hand with Tom so early. By telling him you thought he was scum because of the way he was playing you simply gave him loads of time to change to a style that you expect from town Tom and you just say thats more like it. Like even after he tries to lynch me, if its successful and i flip town youre going to just go oh well this is still more like the Tom I said I expected if hes town he cant possibly just have changed style because I caught him. Like are you seriously saying thats your thought process

5tarscream posted...

SBell I think we are both being set up as easy town lynches after scum let us argue with each other for so long. Thats the reason I changed my mind on you and started to focus more on the people that initially suspected you, like Han and now Tom. I feel like one of us has to be lynched in order to expose this though unfortunately. What are your thoughts?

I don't think we argued for that long and you came at me with your own read on the game and I came at you for coming at me based on a bad fight with Han.

So I don't see scum pulling our strings here. If anything the content created after my fight with Han has been extremely telling.

I do not believe that I have to die to help reveal the scum on my train.

I want to give you credit for seeing the error in the argument and backing off, but scum would need to save face if they were on me and knew it was going to look bad.
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Anyway I really am going to sleep now before my wife kills me for keeping her awake with my phone

5tarscream posted...

Pez/puns/Ulti/Panth if I am lynched today, when I flip town how will this change your reads on Tom, Scare and Han. You either think literally all 3 of them have accidentally lynched town or theyve played their hand way too soon and their scum. At least one of them has to be scum so who do you think is most likely?

I think I answered this question before even reading it.

I don't think I have intentionally changed style mid-game ever. I have my town game, I try to emulate it as best I can as scum, and that's about it. Well I guess there's TOMGETA technically but that is very obviously a false persona and I have no plans to roll it out this game.
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SBell youre making a mistake and youre playing right into scum hands doing it. Remember this if I get lynched D1. Make sure you are 100% certain that in the scummiest person here and when I flip town feel absolutely horrible for putting my name on the board and allowing scum to just slowly drive the votes up

Tom Bombadil posted...

come to think of it didn't ulti later say the whole thing was a gambit anyway?

Come to think of it didn't O.J. plead not guilty?

Tom Bombadil posted...

I don't think I have intentionally changed style mid-game ever. I have my town game, I try to emulate it as best I can as scum, and that's about it. Well I guess there's TOMGETA technically but that is very obviously a false persona and I have no plans to roll it out this game.

Youre right. If you did change styles to cover a scum tell that Pez let slip so early youd absolutely admit it Im sure. Your post is a waste of time. You actually look worse for even bothering to say it

htaeD posted...

Oh silly me
I didnt see the heel team mention in the PM
I just gloss over that sentence usually

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Death is confirmed Town now.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Han probably scum also. Defending Death's fuck up.

You didn't mention how face and heel are mentioned in our PM's. Death did.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Retracting Death being confirmed Town though because Scum almost assuredly have the same victory conditions sentence as Town do, just with teams reversed.

Ok, this sequence of posts should show why Han is town.

For context this was at the end of the SBell "slip" about heel/face stuff.

So, Death makes a comment that reveals the format of the PMs that town received. Specifically where the first mention of HEEL is. Can I say more without a modkill? Han notices this and based on his own PM takes that as immediate confirmation that Death is town. Then later her realizes that scum probably got a similar PM but with the words HEEL and FACE reversed. After that realization he negates the confirmed town on Death.

Now if Han were scum, he would have had the realization about the formatting of PMs between town and scum before making the statement that Death is confirmed town. But since he would have had to come to that conclusion prior to "confirming" Death as town, he wouldn't think that town would be convinced that Death is confirmed town. Since he would already be assuming the formatting similarity. That would make him assume that others would also figure that out, and therefore "confirming" Death would be pointless. Ergo, Han is town.

I also got a read of Death as likely town here, that was good enough for me to not question him too hard on D1, future days are up in the air. But you'd have to work really hard to convince me that Han is scum at any point.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

htaeD posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

Hey, random thought while reading, why would Sultan start a game early and give an extended day if he had a role that was time limited like gladiator? I would blame it on inexperience but that doesn't really feel fair to the person who drew that role. That being said it is a null tell on Corrik because if he is lying he's doing a good job sticking to his gambit.

I mentioned this from the start Eaed. Keep up

Well that feels like an unusually aggressive response from you, Death. You usual play this game so cool.

I was kinda annoyed that nobody even talked about it when I brought it up.
Sorry for taking it out on you though.
But that said.. what is your intention with an answer like that?
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This is Sultan's first hosting job but I'd say you are tiptoeing the modkill line Pez so best to leave it at that.

I'm tired. Missing that big chunk of the day has made me feel like I'm spectating this game and not participating in it.

SBell, I still don't buy he was lying about attacking me earlier in the day. Feels like a 'Chewbacca defense'

Ulti - kinda the same way. I mean, I can see actions Ulti are taking as being Scum, but him flipping on puns as quick as he did feels like the same kind of defense I'm accusing SBell as (to reiterate, when you're in a 1v1, instantly say 'no I think you're Town' and it's so surprising that the other person backs down) also it surprises me still how SURE Ulti is that I'm Town. But when Puns was going after Ulti, I was like 'ehhh i don't see it puns'

5tar - Still has Scummy as hell early posts, but don't like his votes. Is he Town, because he's the only person in the game to still think I'm Scum? Or does that make him Scummy, since it's a train he can push without ever having to follow through with hit?

Red - Is in high danger of getting B8 specialed because he hasn't earned any goodwill yet this game and a lot of people are shooting him daggers.

Scare - popped up, said "5tar is Scum" and has done little else. If he's just hopping on the easy lynch and trying to prop me up to join him in running that through... then Scare is Scum? With SBell?

Panth - I feel like I've seen Panth Scum before as someone who does not post a whole lot, but when he does, it makes sense.

Right now, if I had to pick, I'd say to lynch SBell, mainly because I'm just a little put-off by 5tar's train, even though the guy is asking to be lynched.
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turbopuns3 posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

come to think of it didn't ulti later say the whole thing was a gambit anyway?

Come to think of it didn't O.J. plead not guilty?

oh shit, you predicted my "chewbacca defense" mention. Wow. Impressive.

pezloco posted...

But you'd have to work really hard to convince me that Han is scum at any point.

what if i claim scum?
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Han, let's lynch Tom.

That's not a bad lynch, but like, I don't want to.
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5tarscream posted...

SBell youre making a mistake and youre playing right into scum hands doing it. Remember this if I get lynched D1. Make sure you are 100% certain that in the scummiest person here and when I flip town feel absolutely horrible for putting my name on the board and allowing scum to just slowly drive the votes up

Does anyone else read this as 5tar knowing I am town? Feels like I'm being spoken to as town. "Making a mistake and playing into scums hands doing it".
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5tarscream posted...

I was thinking that maybe you made a mistake playing your hand with Tom so early. By telling him you thought he was scum because of the way he was playing you simply gave him loads of time to change to a style that you expect from town Tom and you just say thats more like it. Like even after he tries to lynch me, if its successful and i flip town youre going to just go oh well this is still more like the Tom I said I expected if hes town he cant possibly just have changed style because I caught him. Like are you seriously saying thats your thought process

Is this directed at me? I imagine it is. My read on Tom right now is based largely on how he thought he might have caught Corrik. The reasoning was very Tom. That's a point in his favor as in it's not something he would've gotten from a scum team member. But of course you might then argue that scum make their own plays. This is true.

The setup was either town Tom trying to trap Corrik in what he thought was evidence of scum board interaction. Or it was Tom role rishing on Corrik, maybe doubting that Corrik is gladiator. But I'm pretty confident if Tom was doing that, he would do that on the scum board first. If he did it on the scum board first I believe it's very likely that it's gets cleared up quickly like it did.

This doesn't clear Tom. He had time before he said I have something until he finally brought it out. However I still think it's more likely he's town even if it doesn't clear him.
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Obellisk posted...

Does anyone else read this as 5tar knowing I am town? Feels like I'm being spoken to as town. "Making a mistake and playing into scums hands doing it".

It does sound like a heavy handed threat of guilt. Idk if it reads like him knowing your alignment.

turbopuns3 posted...

This is Sultan's first hosting job but I'd say you are tiptoeing the modkill line Pez so best to leave it at that.

I don't think I said anything that Han didn't already say, except the word first. Han said it in kind of a different way. I thought it was borderline modkill back then though.
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pezloco posted...

I don't think I said anything that Han didn't already say, except the word first.

Generally speaking, there is often a train of thought along the lines of "I think player X is confirmed <town/scum> because of this" involved with modkills

HanOfTheNekos posted...

That's not a bad lynch, but like, I don't want to.

You don't want to because you're not convinced? Or more personal reasons?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I'm tired. Missing that big chunk of the day has made me feel like I'm spectating this game and not participating in it.

SBell, I still don't buy he was lying about attacking me earlier in the day. Feels like a 'Chewbacca defense'

Ulti - kinda the same way. I mean, I can see actions Ulti are taking as being Scum, but him flipping on puns as quick as he did feels like the same kind of defense I'm accusing SBell as (to reiterate, when you're in a 1v1, instantly say 'no I think you're Town' and it's so surprising that the other person backs down) also it surprises me still how SURE Ulti is that I'm Town. But when Puns was going after Ulti, I was like 'ehhh i don't see it puns'

5tar - Still has Scummy as hell early posts, but don't like his votes. Is he Town, because he's the only person in the game to still think I'm Scum? Or does that make him Scummy, since it's a train he can push without ever having to follow through with hit?

Red - Is in high danger of getting B8 specialed because he hasn't earned any goodwill yet this game and a lot of people are shooting him daggers.

Scare - popped up, said "5tar is Scum" and has done little else. If he's just hopping on the easy lynch and trying to prop me up to join him in running that through... then Scare is Scum? With SBell?

Panth - I feel like I've seen Panth Scum before as someone who does not post a whole lot, but when he does, it makes sense.

Right now, if I had to pick, I'd say to lynch SBell, mainly because I'm just a little put-off by 5tar's train, even though the guy is asking to be lynched.

Is this a list of all the people you think scum comes out of?
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5tarscream posted...

Timing sucks. I was out watching the champions league final and didnt get back until like 6:30. Then Ive spent an hour trawling through this before going to bed. SBell and death seem the most suspicious to me because of the weird way they are trying to deflect any attention. I believe death is experienced enough to not panic in the face of the usual Corrik bullishness if hes town, this is what he does. Gets super aggressive and waits for you to make a mistake. SBells reason have been covered already many times by many people so I dont feel the need to retread that.
Death, can you explain why when Corrie threatened yourself and Han with basically the same threat you seemed to panic and began responding to his every comment And why instead of simply explaining why you arent scum you offered alternatives without specifiying if you had any hard reads. Do you actually think they are scum or where you simply trying to save yourself?

5tarscream posted...

I actually went to bed before Scare said anything. I didnt see the point in responding to his nonsense vote because there was nothing to say about it. It was based on one sentence that Im pretty sure he misunderstood. To clarify I wasnt criticising Corriks style of play. I was saying its predictable and that SBells and deaths reactions just didnt sit well with me. Their reaction stunk of panic as if theyd been rumbled and where trying to suck up to Corrik. I think SBell, death are scum. Maybe Tom too because his style seems a little fluffy compared to what Id expect from him. As town. None of them has really contributed anything in my opinion. Nothing of substance. Death trying to rally attention to Scares nonsense vote on me also strikes me as the same sort of misdirection I was talking about last night.
Death what do you think of Pezs Read on Tom and red?

5tarscream posted...

This sudden appearance of Scare to try and turn all the attention on me for apparently being too passive and not stepping in any bodies toes despite the fact Ive been saying I think death and SBell seem scum to me. SBell voting me as a defensive town makes a little more sense than death just hiding behind Scare.
The timing seems way too convenient that every time Corrik applies pressure to death he panics and Scare shows up to say hey look Starscream is scum because I think so.
Id say use it on death and it says a lot more about Scares intentions. Hes super adamant on using it on anyone except death.

Scare what about deaths play has you do solidly convinced hes town?

These posts all have a very awkwardly similar format. In point, reads followed by a question.

However, what sticks out on rereading, is that the question is posited at one of the people he is suspicious of, which, if my caffeine kicks in, I'll be able to surmise a thought about.
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Yes SBell, those are the people I'm currently looking at. It's not a PoE lynch. Ulti can be Scum with puns and Death. Those are just the people who come to mind now.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yes SBell, those are the people I'm currently looking at. It's not a PoE lynch. Ulti can be Scum with puns and Death. Those are just the people who come to mind now.

Oh no, didn't think poe. Just wanted to be clear that's your current pool.
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5tar is starting to win me over with how genuinely offended he seems to be with all the votes on him.
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Obellisk posted...

5tarscream posted...

SBell youre making a mistake and youre playing right into scum hands doing it. Remember this if I get lynched D1. Make sure you are 100% certain that in the scummiest person here and when I flip town feel absolutely horrible for putting my name on the board and allowing scum to just slowly drive the votes up

Does anyone else read this as 5tar knowing I am town? Feels like I'm being spoken to as town. "Making a mistake and playing into scums hands doing it".

Allthough this is a good read. And now I am conflicted again.
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I mean 5tar allegedly has read SBell as town most of the game so it's not that odd he'd be posting from such a perspective

turbopuns3 posted...

I mean 5tar allegedly has read SBell as town most of the game so it's not that odd he'd be posting from such a perspective

Has he? He showed up and voted me based on everyone else's leg work and had no defense of his actions. And it wasn't till last night that he started to push away.
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That's a strike against you puns.

Just want you to know that.
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5tarscream posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

I don't think I have intentionally changed style mid-game ever. I have my town game, I try to emulate it as best I can as scum, and that's about it. Well I guess there's TOMGETA technically but that is very obviously a false persona and I have no plans to roll it out this game.

Youre right. If you did change styles to cover a scum tell that Pez let slip so early youd absolutely admit it Im sure. Your post is a waste of time. You actually look worse for even bothering to say it

guess I'll just stop talking because that helps town a lot more. Should I just start responding to all your defenses with this? Anyway, quietness is a pretty well-known scumtell for me. It's something that I do my best to avoid as scum every time, not something I would suddenly realize mid-game. And my playstyle being roughly the same game to game (when my alignment is the same) is I think something that other vets would back me up on, too.

Ulti lying about stuff is kinda a nulltell imo. I wouldn't put it past him to gambit like that as town, and I also wouldn't put it past him to pretend it was a gambit as scum. I have him and Corrik (by personality-based assumptions) and Chris (by experience) all kinda lumped into a "take everything they say with a grain of salt and who knows what their actual deal is" category. Outside of that interaction he seems somewhat genuine, so my slight townlean on him stands.
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turbopuns3 posted...

I mean 5tar allegedly has read SBell as town most of the game so it's not that odd he'd be posting from such a perspective

He called sbell scum alongside me at first, so I dont think this holds up.
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htaeD posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

I mean 5tar allegedly has read SBell as town most of the game so it's not that odd he'd be posting from such a perspective

He called sbell scum alongside me at first, so I dont think this holds up.

Key word is "most"

I haven't read his early posts I'm just repeating what he said before

htaeD posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

I mean 5tar allegedly has read SBell as town most of the game

He called sbell scum alongside me at first

these are not necessarily mutually exclusive statements!
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Also. If he has read me as town most of the game that makes his sheep vote on me look even worse
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Ok I don't know if it's literally "most of the game", let's not put too much stock in that

I should have said he's read sbell town "for a while now"

Thats at least better.
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Hey puns, who do you think has the biggest b8 special stamp on there back right now?
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UltimaterializerX posted...

5tar is such laughably obvious town that from this post forward Im calling anyone who suspects him scum. Dude is a beast!

Oh good, this will help play into his reasoning to lynch me for right now.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Tom, youve played mafia before and know damn good and well what those terms youre asking about mean

so you're proposing that I am asking questions about mafia jargon in an effort to look town? Do you honestly think that's more likely than my simply not having encountered them when they weren't in common use back in my day?
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Obellisk posted...

Hey puns, who do you think has the biggest b8 special stamp on there back right now?

uhh. I can look at the list and decide but that's a weird question that I can't immediately see any benefit to me answering.