Current Events > Sen. Bernie Sanders announces plan to expand employee ownership

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/05/28/lets-expand-employee-ownership-bernie-sanders-backs-plan-give-workers-power-over
Sounds good to me.

Are we seizing the means of production? ._.
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Hy-Vee seems to be doing okay., I guess

Employers are crooked and always looking to screw their people over sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But this isn't the answer. This sounds unconstitutional and un-American as all hell and I don't support it.
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-have an idea for a business
-take a risky loan in order to get it off the ground
-work ridiculous hours to make it successful
-it becomes successful, you expand
-the government tells you to give partial ownership of the thing you made away to the people who work under you, who you already pay for working in your company

what a great idea

Good.

Many Americans are hypocrites who praise and worship Democracy but are willing to shackle themselves to corporate tyranny.

Its time for a Democratic workplace.

EternalDivide posted...

Employers are crooked and always looking to screw their people over sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But this isn't the answer. This sounds unconstitutional and un-American as all hell and I don't support it.

So, how do you suggest empowering workers and giving them their fair share?

I would be OK with this only if a business goes public.
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I bet this would lead to more assholes paying their workers cash under the table and breaking other laws.

Excellent.

Now this can actually be called socialism: workers' ownership of the means of production.
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ElatedVenusaur posted...

EternalDivide posted...

Employers are crooked and always looking to screw their people over sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But this isn't the answer. This sounds unconstitutional and un-American as all hell and I don't support it.

So, how do you suggest empowering workers and giving them their fair share?

Not "give them the company"

"That's not fair, I should have it instead" has never and will never be acceptable and reasonable political discourse.
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No thanks, I dont want the economy to go under.
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I like the codetermination idea, I would rather just tax corporate profits more and use that money to redistribute to many people rather than just making companies pay their workers dividends tho
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Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out
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My opinion of this guy has been impacted by the fact that he owns multiple houses and made millions on book sales, but acts like he's above everyone else in Washington
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Balrog0 posted...

I like the codetermination idea, I would rather just tax corporate profits more and use that money to redistribute to many people rather than just making companies pay their workers dividends tho

Why?

At least withe employee dividends the employees earned it. The money would otherwise be reinvested into the company and given to stockholders.
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The stock thing Im ambivalent towards. Amazon already gives stocks away to warehouse employees and work conditions are just as shitty as ever. But I wouldnt be against it either.

Let workers own a share of the board of directors seems like the kind of thing that would quickly become abused/corrupt so Im actually against that
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If you think businesses have problems with boards of directors and CEOs making decisions for profit based motivations, just until the workers start making company decisions under the motivation of "I want it, therefore I should have it".
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Sen bernie sanders announces plan to sink his 2020 presidential campaign before the first debate
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SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find
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Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find

Tbqh I doubt it matters since most workers would probably just sell the shares if they receive stock anyway.
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Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find

Yeah, it's just an idea rather than a concrete proposal.

SK8T3R215 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find

Tbqh I doubt it matters since most workers would probably just sell the shares if they receive stock anyway.

Walmart used to do profit sharing until super recently, but I've never worked there. Any idea how that worked? I think it was sort of like a dividend payout but put into a fund. Sounds pretty much just like this idea.
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DarkRoast posted...

My opinion of this guy has been impacted by the fact that he owns multiple houses and made millions on book sales, but acts like he's above everyone else in Washington

I always laugh when someone spouts this off like it means something. Bernie Sanders has been saying stuff like this for decades and has been probably the most consistent member of Congress when it comes to messaging.

Also of course a member of Congress is going to have more money than the average American. Back in 2016 at least, he was one of its poorer members: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/14/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-hes-one-poorer-members-united-/
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Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find

Tbqh I doubt it matters since most workers would probably just sell the shares if they receive stock anyway.

Walmart used to do profit sharing until super recently, but I've never worked there. Any idea how that worked? I think it was sort of like a dividend payout but put into a fund. Sounds pretty much just like this idea.

Can't speak for Walmart, but I did work in another retail store for about 4 years. IIRC, the more consistently the store met or exceeded its sales goals, the larger the pot of money grew. It was then divvied up based on hours worked, rank, etc. I worked full time hours during the summers and two days per week during the school year (and I was the lowest guy on the totem pole) , I believe my cut of the profit sharing would be about $10 (for the year).
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

SK8T3R215 posted...

Are they being paid "dividends" of stock or are the shares being liquidated then paid out

there aren't any details on what it actually means in practice, from what I could find

Tbqh I doubt it matters since most workers would probably just sell the shares if they receive stock anyway.

Walmart used to do profit sharing until super recently, but I've never worked there. Any idea how that worked? I think it was sort of like a dividend payout but put into a fund. Sounds pretty much just like this idea.

Can't speak for Walmart, but I did work in another retail store for about 4 years. IIRC, the more consistently the store met or exceeded its sales goals, the larger the pot of money grew. It was then divvied up based on hours worked, rank, etc. I worked full time hours during the summers and two days per week during the school year (and I was the lowest guy on the totem pole) , I believe my cut of the profit sharing would be about $10 (for the year).

well, that sounds more like a bonus system than a profit sharing system

the thing I'm talking about at Walmart was basically their version of a retirement plan for their employees, it was basically a 401k but instead of contributing and having them match, they just paid out a 'dividend' into your retirement account based on how well walmart was doing that year basically (not your individual store)

edit -- I think, at least. They might have actually given shares out? I honestly don't know but that's not how it sounded to me
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Kaiganeer posted...

-have an idea for a business
-take a risky loan in order to get it off the ground
-work ridiculous hours to make it successful
-it becomes successful, you expand
-the government tells you to give partial ownership of the thing you made away to the people who work under you, who you already pay for working in your company

what a great idea

welcome to the democratic party
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AlephZero posted...

Kaiganeer posted...

-have an idea for a business
-take a risky loan in order to get it off the ground
-work ridiculous hours to make it successful
-it becomes successful, you expand
-the government tells you to give partial ownership of the thing you made away to the people who work under you, who you already pay for working in your company

what a great idea

welcome to the democratic party

I don't really like democrats, but if the democratic party is the one who can see the enormous flaws in this narrative then sign me!
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AlephZero posted...

Kaiganeer posted...

-have an idea for a business
-take a risky loan in order to get it off the ground
-work ridiculous hours to make it successful
-it becomes successful, you expand
-the government tells you to give partial ownership of the thing you made away to the people who work under you, who you already pay for working in your company

what a great idea

welcome to the democratic party

To be fair, not all Democrats are socialist loons like Bernie. His insecurity over being a complete failure in the private sector and jealousy of Wall Street money is the basis of his economic policies. Most Democrats were not failures for half their adult lives like he was.
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The Trent posted...

Sen bernie sanders announces plan to sink his 2020 presidential campaign before the first debate

He was already tanking, this is a desperation move because he can't stand the spotlight not being on him.
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Higher levels of employee ownership is associated across the board with significantly better outcomes in all areas including survival rate and stability, effiency, productivity, employee turnover, wages, access to healthcare and benefits like paid maternity leave, and just about every other metric there is to measure the well-beings of firms and the workforce.

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/2216/
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=142146
https://www.nber.org/papers/w17745.pdf
https://www.nber.org/papers/w5277.pdf
http://geo.coop/sites/default/files/0213-benefits-and-impacts-of-cooperatives.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276431575_The_Concept_and_Practice_of_Social_Enterprise_Lessons_from_the_Italian_Experience

The only people who benefit from opposing higher levels of employee ownership are those with a vested interest in maintaining a disproportionate share of wealth among a small number of capital owners.
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The Trent posted...

Sen bernie sanders announces plan to sink his 2020 presidential campaign before the first debate

A majority of people support this idea, though:

https://twitter.com/peterjgowan/status/1133137877855035392

Codetermination also polls well
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/6/17086720/poll-corporate-board-democracy-worker-council-codetermination-union-labor

The idea is overwhelmingly supported by Democrats (71 percent to 10 percent opposed) and Democratic leaners (75 percent to 9 percent), with pluralities of both independents (37 percent to 14 percent, with 49 percent saying dont know) and Republican leaners (43 percent to 31 percent) supporting the idea as well. Self-identified Republicans only reject the idea very narrowly, 35 percent to 39 percent.

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Frolex posted...

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/2216/
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=142146
https://www.nber.org/papers/w17745.pdf
https://www.nber.org/papers/w5277.pdf
http://geo.coop/sites/default/files/0213-benefits-and-impacts-of-cooperatives.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276431575_The_Concept_and_Practice_of_Social_Enterprise_Lessons_from_the_Italian_Experience

interesting stuff, thanks for sharing
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Frolex posted...

The only people who benefit from opposing higher levels of employee ownership are those with a vested interest in maintaining a disproportionate share of wealth among a small number of capital owners.

Wealth isn't a zero-sum game. Invested employees means the fatcats at the top get fatter anyway.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/bernie-sanders-gets-pragmatic-by-getting-more-socialist.html
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