Current Events > Problem: How do you stop a player from re-loading when stealing from an NPC?

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Kerred 05/20/19 9:55:56 AM #1:	Quicksave, steal, get caught, reload, steal successfully, save again. From a game design perspective, it would be ideal for the player to avoid repeating reloads tons of times to avoid breaking immersion. This would go for things like reloading because you lost at a poker or liar's dice minigame. Fallout New Vegas "changes decks" when you reload poker so you have to wait a minute. A punishment for reloading, but doesn't seem to be effective. Pyre pulls it off beautiful by just not giving you the option to reload and the story keeps going if you lose, but you aren't punished as the story is now different and doesn't punish you, and in fact makes it better as you keep your high level character at the expense if feeling bad for the character. Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Personally my ideas to reduce reloading when stealing would be: - Tier lists for stealing. You always steal something every time and very rarely have a guard after you immediately, but the rewards are dice rolls based on your skill. And maybe an NPC getting suspicious after your first attempt to make you prevent you from stealing from that NPC again. - Guards issue an arrest warrant later next time you visit the area, just like the thugs. This may encourage more players to interact with jails. Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. <cite>Kerred posted [p:922133341] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Quicksave, steal, get caught, reload, steal successfully, save again. From a game design perspective, it would be ideal for the player to avoid repeating reloads tons of times to avoid breaking immersion. This would go for things like reloading because you lost at a poker or liar's dice minigame. Fallout New Vegas "changes decks" when you reload poker so you have to wait a minute. A punishment for reloading, but doesn't seem to be effective. Pyre pulls it off beautiful by just not giving you the option to reload and the story keeps going if you lose, but you aren't punished as the story is now different and doesn't punish you, and in fact makes it better as you keep your high level character at the expense if feeling bad for the character. Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Personally my ideas to reduce reloading when stealing would be: - Tier lists for stealing. You always steal something every time and very rarely have a guard after you immediately, but the rewards are dice rolls based on your skill. And maybe an NPC getting suspicious after your first attempt to make you prevent you from stealing from that NPC again. - Guards issue an arrest warrant later next time you visit the area, just like the thugs. This may encourage more players to interact with jails. Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smashingpmkns 05/20/19 10:00:03 AM #2:	Game Makers Tool Kit has an episode on this iirc. I think the ep is called Playing Past Your Mistakes. --- Clean Butt Crew <cite>Smashingpmkns posted [p:922133476] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Game Makers Tool Kit has an episode on this iirc. I think the ep is called Playing Past Your Mistakes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 05/20/19 10:02:25 AM #3:	Have a separate save thing for stealing so if you reload and keep stealing all you are doing is adding more and more counts of stealing to your character. >__> Then later on the game will try to have you arrested and punished for all of them. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:922133544] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Have a separate save thing for stealing so if you reload and keep stealing all you are doing is adding more and more counts of stealing to your character. >__> Then later on the game will try to have you arrested and punished for all of them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FF_Redux 05/20/19 10:02:35 AM #4:	I think that even failure would give you something. Not something you wanted, but something that still something that will motivate you not to reload. Now what that would be, I dunno. --- https://imgur.com/hRsG4 https://i.imgtc.com/zZQ38Hb.jpg https://imgur.com/Z4cir https://imgur.com/qEyGS https://imgur.com/37KDT <cite>FF_Redux posted [p:922133548] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>I think that even failure would give you something. Not something you wanted, but something that still something that will motivate you not to reload. Now what that would be, I dunno.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A5modeu5 05/20/19 10:03:06 AM #5:	Autosave --- Posted with GameRaven 3.5.1 <cite>A5modeu5 posted [p:922133568] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Autosave</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
clearaflagrantj 05/20/19 10:03:32 AM #6:	Replicate XCOM Ironman autosaves <cite>clearaflagrantj posted [p:922133585] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Replicate XCOM Ironman autosaves</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CruelBuffalo 05/20/19 10:06:26 AM #7:	Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them <cite>CruelBuffalo posted [p:922133651] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stone 05/20/19 10:07:28 AM #8:	Make it so no one carries anything on them after reloading within a certain distance of them? Or have it on a timer. 2 minutes wait time before you can pick pocket them. --- PONG WAS REAL? I thought that was just a story parents told kids to scare them <cite>stone posted [p:922133678] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Make it so no one carries anything on them after reloading within a certain distance of them? Or have it on a timer. 2 minutes wait time before you can pick pocket them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WilliamPorygon 05/20/19 10:07:46 AM #9:	Have Mr. Resetti show up and chastise the player for half an hour --- https://imgtc.com/i/XW7Qado.png https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1404-cetacea-cove <cite>WilliamPorygon posted [p:922133688] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Have Mr. Resetti show up and chastise the player for half an hour</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bover_87 05/20/19 10:07:49 AM #10:	Lockout timers and making it non-random are two methods I've seen. --- I...I shall consume. Consume...consume everything. ~ [FFRK] rcr6 - Arbiter's Tome/Forbidden Power/Divine Veil Grimoire <cite>bover_87 posted [p:922133691] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Lockout timers and making it non-random are two methods I've seen.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stone 05/20/19 10:11:40 AM #11:	bover_87 posted... making it non-random Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload. --- PONG WAS REAL? I thought that was just a story parents told kids to scare them <cite>stone posted [p:922133797] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>bover_87 posted...</cite> <quote>making it non-random</quote> Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 05/20/19 10:14:29 AM #12:	CruelBuffalo posted... Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them This tbqh Forcing immersion doesn't work. It just makes the game less fun for people who don't want to play that way --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg https://imgur.com/8kjZU <cite>eston posted [p:922133865] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them</quote> This tbqh Forcing immersion doesn't work. It just makes the game less fun for people who don't want to play that way</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Notti 05/20/19 10:21:33 AM #13:	Savescumming. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SaveScumming https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/01/confessions-of-a-save-scummer/ 2 ways that might give you ideas. If the game is an auto saving type game, then just micro save while something risky is going on (gambling) or just happened. (boss drop, or so on) Another way is to presave a worse case (not necessarily worst case) scenario during any save. Like, save file a person with 1 less life than they should have, and then credit them back with it after the gamble. Another way might be to try to program an auto save file in the background that tries to log all save scumming profits, and when a player reaches a threshold, make him pay. Other are like you said, perhaps like, you can't save in or near the gambling house. Or gamblers are closed for 5 minutes after a reload. (or for 5 minutes after reload gamblers or theft opportunities have lots of guards) The simplest idea is to not have manual saves. Or manual saves only at an inn, auto saving otherwise. --- https://youtube.com/TheYoungTurks http://RightWingWatch.org/ https://DemocraticUnderground.com/?com=latest_threads https://reddit.com/r/The_Mueller/new <cite>Notti posted [p:922134104] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Savescumming. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SaveScumming https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/01/confessions-of-a-save-scummer/ 2 ways that might give you ideas. If the game is an auto saving type game, then just micro save while something risky is going on (gambling) or just happened. (boss drop, or so on) Another way is to presave a worse case (not necessarily worst case) scenario during any save. Like, save file a person with 1 less life than they should have, and then credit them back with it after the gamble. Another way might be to try to program an auto save file in the background that tries to log all save scumming profits, and when a player reaches a threshold, make him pay. Other are like you said, perhaps like, you can't save in or near the gambling house. Or gamblers are closed for 5 minutes after a reload. (or for 5 minutes after reload gamblers or theft opportunities have lots of guards) The simplest idea is to not have manual saves. Or manual saves only at an inn, auto saving otherwise.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/20/19 10:24:37 AM #14:	clearaflagrantj posted... Replicate XCOM Ironman autosaves For a Bethesda game this would be a problem, as imagine game breaking bugs for example not being able to complete a main quest or join a guild unless you reload a previous save <cite>Kerred posted [p:922134192] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>clearaflagrantj posted...</cite> <quote>Replicate XCOM Ironman autosaves</quote> For a Bethesda game this would be a problem, as imagine game breaking bugs for example not being able to complete a main quest or join a guild unless you reload a previous save</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/20/19 10:26:02 AM #15:	stone posted... bover_87 posted... making it non-random Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload. XCOM does that I know. When the issue with your casual player though is they may keep trying it over and over again. By the way all this gameplay stuff I'm speaking of from the casual gamer mind. <cite>Kerred posted [p:922134241] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>stone posted...</cite> <quote><cite>bover_87 posted...</cite> <quote>making it non-random</quote> Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload.</quote> XCOM does that I know. When the issue with your casual player though is they may keep trying it over and over again. By the way all this gameplay stuff I'm speaking of from the casual gamer mind.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/20/19 10:26:47 AM #16:	WilliamPorygon posted... Have Mr. Resetti show up and chastise the player for half an hour There is positive reinforcement and then there's negative reinforcement. And then there's mr. Resetti <cite>Kerred posted [p:922134260] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>WilliamPorygon posted...</cite> <quote>Have Mr. Resetti show up and chastise the player for half an hour</quote> There is positive reinforcement and then there's negative reinforcement. And then there's mr. Resetti</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kirbymuncher 05/20/19 10:39:00 AM #17:	I'd just deterct a failed steal -> reload and have some sort of lockout where it's a guaranteed fail until certain conditons are met those conditions being likely some combination of "wait X amount of time" and "do X amount of other things" --- THIS IS WHAT I HATE A BOUT EVREY WEBSITE!! THERES SO MUCH PEOPLE READING AND POSTING STUIPED STUFF <cite>kirbymuncher posted [p:922134634] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>I'd just deterct a failed steal -> reload and have some sort of lockout where it's a guaranteed fail until certain conditons are met those conditions being likely some combination of "wait X amount of time" and "do X amount of other things"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Notti 05/20/19 10:42:17 AM #18:	Oh, 1 other idea. Luck balancer. For every lucky thing that happens. Gambling. Crit hits. Legendary Loot. Etc. Store that secretly somewhere as a Lucky value. (for that action. Might be harder to balance if you start combing lucky event types) Balance this out by making future lucky things balance out with unavoidable bad luck. Like, you have a 5% chance to Critical hit. You get it. YAY! But now the next critical hit chance will have a 95% chance less likely chance to critical lower than shown value. (shown 5%, actual = 0.25% chance) In this way the player is spending his luck and this way you prevent the player from going too far beyond normal luck. (making save scumming very very time consuming) --- https://youtube.com/TheYoungTurks http://RightWingWatch.org/ https://DemocraticUnderground.com/?com=latest_threads https://reddit.com/r/The_Mueller/new <cite>Notti posted [p:922134726] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Oh, 1 other idea. Luck balancer. For every lucky thing that happens. Gambling. Crit hits. Legendary Loot. Etc. Store that secretly somewhere as a Lucky value. (for that action. Might be harder to balance if you start combing lucky event types) Balance this out by making future lucky things balance out with unavoidable bad luck. Like, you have a 5% chance to Critical hit. You get it. YAY! But now the next critical hit chance will have a 95% chance less likely chance to critical lower than shown value. (shown 5%, actual = 0.25% chance) In this way the player is spending his luck and this way you prevent the player from going too far beyond normal luck. (making save scumming very very time consuming)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stone 05/20/19 12:13:53 PM #19:	Kerred posted... stone posted... bover_87 posted... making it non-random Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload. XCOM does that I know. When the issue with your casual player though is they may keep trying it over and over again. By the way all this gameplay stuff I'm speaking of from the casual gamer mind. Maybe just check the current time vs save time, if it's within the last 5 minutes, then they get nothing, if it's longer than that (i.e. a legitimate save) then it works as normal? Or quit the game when quick saving and delete them upon loading them (the Wii virtual store way) --- PONG WAS REAL? I thought that was just a story parents told kids to scare them <cite>stone posted [p:922137881] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote><cite>stone posted...</cite> <quote><cite>bover_87 posted...</cite> <quote>making it non-random</quote> Or randomizing it with each new game, but once it's all been allocated, they stay the same with each reload.</quote> XCOM does that I know. When the issue with your casual player though is they may keep trying it over and over again. By the way all this gameplay stuff I'm speaking of from the casual gamer mind.</quote> Maybe just check the current time vs save time, if it's within the last 5 minutes, then they get nothing, if it's longer than that (i.e. a legitimate save) then it works as normal? Or quit the game when quick saving and delete them upon loading them (the Wii virtual store way)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mehmeh1 05/20/19 12:29:51 PM #20:	Do what link's awakening did --- FC: 3840-6927-7945, have OR/Y/SM4SH/PSMD/S/US I'm a youtuber, here is my link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRj1lj8EWzRtw3jp3HUXCxQ? .I play games <cite>mehmeh1 posted [p:922138526] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Do what link's awakening did</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stone 05/20/19 12:31:02 PM #21:	mehmeh1 posted... Do what link's awakening did Oh? I don't recall, it's been so long since I played that game. Or do you mean changing your name to thief? --- PONG WAS REAL? I thought that was just a story parents told kids to scare them <cite>stone posted [p:922138582] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>mehmeh1 posted...</cite> <quote>Do what link's awakening did</quote> Oh? I don't recall, it's been so long since I played that game. Or do you mean changing your name to thief?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 05/20/19 1:01:06 PM #22:	Don't make anything important stealable. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:922139708] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Don't make anything important stealable.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mehmeh1 05/20/19 6:30:45 PM #23:	stone posted... mehmeh1 posted... Do what link's awakening did Oh? I don't recall, it's been so long since I played that game. Or do you mean changing your name to thief? yep, THIEF (also, the shopkeeper kills you if you go back to his shop) --- FC: 3840-6927-7945, have OR/Y/SM4SH/PSMD/S/US I'm a youtuber, here is my link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRj1lj8EWzRtw3jp3HUXCxQ? .I play games <cite>mehmeh1 posted [p:922153139] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>stone posted...</cite> <quote><cite>mehmeh1 posted...</cite> <quote>Do what link's awakening did</quote> Oh? I don't recall, it's been so long since I played that game. Or do you mean changing your name to thief?</quote> yep, THIEF (also, the shopkeeper kills you if you go back to his shop)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 05/20/19 6:33:10 PM #24:	Some games like Eschalon Book 2 and 3 let you use deterministic seeds so if you save / load 10 million times just before opening a chest you'll get the same items 10 million times. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:922153233] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Some games like Eschalon Book 2 and 3 let you use deterministic seeds so if you save / load 10 million times just before opening a chest you'll get the same items 10 million times.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThePrinceFish 05/20/19 6:36:16 PM #25:	Kerred posted... Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything. --- Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say 'Golly gee, I can't do that" Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <cite>ThePrinceFish posted [p:922153360] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote>Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. </quote> Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bover_87 05/20/19 6:53:06 PM #26:	ThePrinceFish posted... Kerred posted... Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything. I used a mod to disable that shit unless they actually see you steal something. --- I...I shall consume. Consume...consume everything. ~ [FFRK] rcr6 - Arbiter's Tome/Forbidden Power/Divine Veil Grimoire <cite>bover_87 posted [p:922153993] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote>Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. </quote> Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything.</quote> I used a mod to disable that shit unless they actually see you steal something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 05/20/19 6:54:41 PM #27:	bover_87 posted... ThePrinceFish posted... Kerred posted... Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything. I used a mod to disable that shit unless they actually see you steal something. I just kill the thugs. The only stupid part is you can get evidence of who sent the thugs but there's no way to confront them about this. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:922154065] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>bover_87 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote>Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. </quote> Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything.</quote> I used a mod to disable that shit unless they actually see you steal something.</quote> I just kill the thugs. The only stupid part is you can get evidence of who sent the thugs but there's no way to confront them about this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 05/20/19 6:55:15 PM #28:	Why have stealing be a % thing at all? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:922154088] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Why have stealing be a % thing at all?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 05/20/19 6:56:52 PM #29:	Who gives a fuck? --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:922154159] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Who gives a fuck?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/20/19 8:23:44 PM #30:	ThePrinceFish posted... Kerred posted... Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything. I am thinking the mod that fixes the issues and thugs come after you for legitimately getting caught stealing. Like imagine game design where its properly implemented. That I like. <cite>Kerred posted [p:922157466] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote>Elder Scrolls has a lovely idea where thugs come after you well after you have saved 20 times, making you unlikely to reload a save and not steal from said person. </quote> Elder Scrolls sending thugs after you is terrible. 20% of the time you didn't actually steal anything, you just knocked something over. And 95% of the time, you're getting a hit put on you by someone who didn't see you knock over or steal anything.</quote> I am thinking the mod that fixes the issues and thugs come after you for legitimately getting caught stealing. Like imagine game design where its properly implemented. That I like.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/20/19 8:24:48 PM #31:	Webmaster4531 posted... Who gives a ? Its just fun game design stuff. Like why did they remove the sword at the start in the original legend of zelda. No one gives two craps, but from a game design perspective its fun and interesting why they removed the sword :) <cite>Kerred posted [p:922157519] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>Who gives a ?</quote> Its just fun game design stuff. Like why did they remove the sword at the start in the original legend of zelda. No one gives two craps, but from a game design perspective its fun and interesting why they removed the sword :)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 05/20/19 8:29:23 PM #32:	I think I would go for simply making pickpocketing a tier system (you'll succeed if your skill is high enough and will fail if it isn't) but you can get caught if spotted by others. If people want to reload after that then no worries. If the pickpocket skill isn't high enough the player should be given other ways to steal items like mugging the guy or knocking him out. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:922157717] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>I think I would go for simply making pickpocketing a tier system (you'll succeed if your skill is high enough and will fail if it isn't) but you can get caught if spotted by others. If people want to reload after that then no worries. If the pickpocket skill isn't high enough the player should be given other ways to steal items like mugging the guy or knocking him out.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bover_87 05/21/19 8:27:20 AM #33:	Tyranthraxus posted... I just kill the thugs. They're really difficult to kill on the high difficulties though. --- I...I shall consume. Consume...consume everything. ~ [FFRK] rcr6 - Arbiter's Tome/Forbidden Power/Divine Veil Grimoire <cite>bover_87 posted [p:922175606] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote>I just kill the thugs.</quote> They're really difficult to kill on the high difficulties though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Alpha218 05/21/19 8:48:07 AM #34:	This sounds like a solution in search of a problem tbh. Youre talking about this in the context of open-world games, where the player is supposed to be able to do whatever they want anyways. --- I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite user on the Citadel. Now Playing: Dead by Daylight, MtG: Arena, 20xx, SSBU, MK11, Iconoclasts <cite>Alpha218 posted [p:922176145] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>This sounds like a solution in search of a problem tbh. Youre talking about this in the context of open-world games, where the player is supposed to be able to do whatever they want anyways.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DevsBro 05/21/19 9:07:52 AM #35:	Generate a random seed and use it to seed an RNG specifically designated for stealing. Include the last-generated number in your save file to seed the RNG when you load your save and now no matter how many times they reload, they will always get the same result, and it can still have the pseudorandom element. Smashingpmkns posted... Game Makers Tool Kit has an episode on this iirc. I think the ep is called Playing Past Your Mistakes. Came in to mention this. And yes, that's the title. Summary: 1.Have a wide "failure spectrum," meaning failures are small and progressive. Like in MGSV where game over only happens if you get spotted, don't escape the enemy's field of vision when he comes to investigate, don't take him out in reflex mode and finally can't escape, hide or defeat all the enemies. 2. Make setbacks small, recoverable and unpredictable. If you fail the steal check, you can try again later. --- 53 LIII 0b110101 p16 0x35 <cite>DevsBro posted [p:922176634] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Generate a random seed and use it to seed an RNG specifically designated for stealing. Include the last-generated number in your save file to seed the RNG when you load your save and now no matter how many times they reload, they will always get the same result, and it can still have the pseudorandom element. <cite>Smashingpmkns posted...</cite> <quote>Game Makers Tool Kit has an episode on this iirc. I think the ep is called Playing Past Your Mistakes.</quote> Came in to mention this. And yes, that's the title. Summary: 1.Have a wide "failure spectrum," meaning failures are small and progressive. Like in MGSV where game over only happens if you get spotted, don't escape the enemy's field of vision when he comes to investigate, don't take him out in reflex mode and finally can't escape, hide or defeat all the enemies. 2. Make setbacks small, recoverable and unpredictable. If you fail the steal check, you can try again later.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DevsBro 05/21/19 9:11:19 AM #36:	CruelBuffalo posted... Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them Yeah but you also want to encourage players to play the fun way do they will enjoy your game instead of doing it the stupid repetetive way that makes sure they get every possible potion in the game. --- 53 LIII 0b110101 p16 0x35 <cite>DevsBro posted [p:922176736] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>Your thoughts? Yes you could just go by the honor system, but remember if the game allows you to do it, the mass percentage of the population will do it if it makes it easier. If thats how people want to play Id let them</quote> Yeah but you also want to encourage players to play the fun way do they will enjoy your game instead of doing it the stupid repetetive way that makes sure they get every possible potion in the game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/21/19 11:56:01 AM #37:	Alpha218 posted... This sounds like a solution in search of a problem tbh. Youre talking about this in the context of open-world games, where the player is supposed to be able to do whatever they want anyways. Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much. Except if it a game mechanic (Sands of Time) <cite>Kerred posted [p:922181751] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Alpha218 posted...</cite> <quote>This sounds like a solution in search of a problem tbh. Youre talking about this in the context of open-world games, where the player is supposed to be able to do whatever they want anyways.</quote> Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much. Except if it a game mechanic (Sands of Time)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 05/21/19 11:59:46 AM #38:	Kerred posted... Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much. Then make it online-only for no good reason, and keep the saves server-side. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:922181878] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kerred posted...</cite> <quote>Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much.</quote> Then make it online-only for no good reason, and keep the saves server-side.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MC_BatCommander 05/21/19 12:00:43 PM #39:	Reminds me of Fallout New Vegas disabling quick load for 60 seconds after gambling to help discourage save summing. --- The Legend is True! <cite>MC_BatCommander posted [p:922181911] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Reminds me of Fallout New Vegas disabling quick load for 60 seconds after gambling to help discourage save summing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hexenherz 05/21/19 12:03:51 PM #40:	Maybe change the criteria for when a person is allowed to quick save. Like, if they're just free roaming around then they can only quick save once until they rest in a bed. But if they're on a mission they can quick save more frequently. --- FFXIV: Herzog Erislieb (Cactaur) \| RS3: UltimaSuende . 99 WC/Fish/Cook/Fletch/Div <cite>Hexenherz posted [p:922182030] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Maybe change the criteria for when a person is allowed to quick save. Like, if they're just free roaming around then they can only quick save once until they rest in a bed. But if they're on a mission they can quick save more frequently.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Southernfatman 05/21/19 12:07:56 PM #41:	Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it. --- https://imgur.com/hslUvRN When I sin I sin real good. <cite>Southernfatman posted [p:922182183] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nemu 05/21/19 12:17:14 PM #42:	I hate anti-savescumming measures. If I want to waste my time looking for the best scenario, let me do it. <cite>nemu posted [p:922182542] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>I hate anti-savescumming measures. If I want to waste my time looking for the best scenario, let me do it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kerred 05/21/19 12:26:18 PM #43:	MC_BatCommander posted... Reminds me of Fallout New Vegas disabling quick load for 60 seconds after gambling to help discourage save summing. Game design wise, I prefer positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement. What I may have done was every game you play (win or lose) will increase your cred with the location. And technically if you lose a lot of money, would the casino's want you there more? Maybe even give you some added benefits the more you spend? Even something as silly as increasing your luck for all future mini games until you can rock it out. The downside is it no longer feels fair, but ask any GWENT or Blitzball player if they like the idea of losing their cards/stats :P Therefore you lose money, but you gain something else, which may encourage one to just keep going :) <cite>Kerred posted [p:922182911] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>MC_BatCommander posted...</cite> <quote>Reminds me of Fallout New Vegas disabling quick load for 60 seconds after gambling to help discourage save summing.</quote> Game design wise, I prefer positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement. What I may have done was every game you play (win or lose) will increase your cred with the location. And technically if you lose a lot of money, would the casino's want you there more? Maybe even give you some added benefits the more you spend? Even something as silly as increasing your luck for all future mini games until you can rock it out. The downside is it no longer feels fair, but ask any GWENT or Blitzball player if they like the idea of losing their cards/stats :P Therefore you lose money, but you gain something else, which may encourage one to just keep going :)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Turtlebread 05/21/19 12:39:45 PM #44:	theyre video games so who gives a shit let people do what they want --- https://imgur.com/yCW15Zn <cite>Turtlebread posted [p:922183424] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>theyre video games so who gives a shit let people do what they want</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 05/21/19 12:46:08 PM #45:	Southernfatman posted... Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it. Elitism, gatekeeping, and plain old righteous indignation. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:922183654] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Southernfatman posted...</cite> <quote>Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it.</quote> Elitism, gatekeeping, and plain old righteous indignation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bringit 05/21/19 12:58:28 PM #46:	I like the way it is right now and wouldn't change it. I have a lot of fun with the system. It's super easy to just not reload if you personally don't like it. --- "I still have a tattoo to get, that says I'm living in the moment." <cite>Bringit posted [p:922184166] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>I like the way it is right now and wouldn't change it. I have a lot of fun with the system. It's super easy to just not reload if you personally don't like it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pancake 05/21/19 1:09:00 PM #47:	Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much. i have to side with the people who say to let players play. some of the best design choices in games have come from watching what players did and expanding upon their discovery. it's like combos in street fighter, man. first, ask what incentivizes this behavior in the first place. you savescum to get rare and powerful things, you savescum to win over and over at casinos, you savescum to cheese something you can't clear easily. take a new player. how do they know who to steal from? why would they think to steal? why would they know to savescum? what would you say if i said i figured that players who had this type of knowledge already ruined their own immersion and probably aren't playing it on blind, creator-gets-to-unfold-the-game-to-them terms? --- https://i.imgtc.com/wKgp7al.gif <cite>Pancake posted [p:922184589] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Yes, but often a game creator's vision is to encourage not reloading saves as much. i have to side with the people who say to let players play. some of the best design choices in games have come from watching what players did and expanding upon their discovery. it's like combos in street fighter, man. first, ask what incentivizes this behavior in the first place. you savescum to get rare and powerful things, you savescum to win over and over at casinos, you savescum to cheese something you can't clear easily. take a new player. how do they know who to steal from? why would they think to steal? why would they know to savescum? what would you say if i said i figured that players who had this type of knowledge already ruined their own immersion and probably aren't playing it on blind, creator-gets-to-unfold-the-game-to-them terms?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 05/21/19 1:10:34 PM #48:	Pancake posted... what would you say if i said i figured that players who had this type of knowledge already ruined their own immersion and probably aren't playing it on blind, creator-gets-to-unfold-the-game-to-them terms? Immersion is vastly overrated anyway. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:922184648] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Pancake posted...</cite> <quote>what would you say if i said i figured that players who had this type of knowledge already ruined their own immersion and probably aren't playing it on blind, creator-gets-to-unfold-the-game-to-them terms?</quote> Immersion is vastly overrated anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pancake 05/21/19 1:17:02 PM #49:	Immersion is vastly overrated anyway. i realize immersion means different things to different people but if you know to abuse a mechanic something's up. you know something the creator probably didn't spell out. i'm not about to say 'no! bad! wrong way to play games!' because that's not really ideal. i read a discussion about the moogle charm (ff6; it turns off random encounters) pretty recently and it got me to the same point i want to make now: if a player knows your game, why not let them break it a little? why not give them the keys and say 'hey, free sandbox'? with the moogle charm, i'd put it in a spot where the player would have proven that nothing in the game is going to kill them. the ideal spot (i think) is on top of the fanatics' tower. rewards like this are better if you can get to them early if you're really good; otherwise it's like the wyrmhero blade in ffxii. --- https://i.imgtc.com/wKgp7al.gif <cite>Pancake posted [p:922184887] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote>Immersion is vastly overrated anyway. i realize immersion means different things to different people but if you know to abuse a mechanic something's up. you know something the creator probably didn't spell out. i'm not about to say 'no! bad! wrong way to play games!' because that's not really ideal. i read a discussion about the moogle charm (ff6; it turns off random encounters) pretty recently and it got me to the same point i want to make now: if a player knows your game, why not let them break it a little? why not give them the keys and say 'hey, free sandbox'? with the moogle charm, i'd put it in a spot where the player would have proven that nothing in the game is going to kill them. the ideal spot (i think) is on top of the fanatics' tower. rewards like this are better if you can get to them early if you're really good; otherwise it's like the wyrmhero blade in ffxii.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RiKuToTheMiGhtY 05/21/19 1:19:35 PM #50:	Southernfatman posted... Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it. nemu posted... I hate anti-savescumming measures. If I want to waste my time looking for the best scenario, let me do it. Turtlebread posted... theyre video games so who gives a shit let people do what they want --- doa-plus.com - We Press Forward. . . By Pressing Back. <cite>RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted [p:922184982] in Problem: ... [t:77727876]...</cite> <quote><cite>Southernfatman posted...</cite> <quote>Don't know why people get worried about cheap tricks in single player games. If you don't like it, don't do it.</quote> <cite>nemu posted...</cite> <quote>I hate anti-savescumming measures. If I want to waste my time looking for the best scenario, let me do it.</quote> <cite>Turtlebread posted...</cite> <quote>theyre video games so who gives a shit let people do what they want</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Problem: How do you stop a player from re-loading when stealing from an NPC? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Problem: How do you stop a player from re-loading when stealing from an NPC?