Current Events > Are Catholics Christians?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm kind of torn on this one.

Against: https://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Christian.html

For: http://m.ncregister.com/blog/longenecker/are-catholics-christian
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How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

No.

They believe that you have to do good works into Heaven.

This is not what Jesus said. To get into Heaven, you simply have to believe and accept Jesus as your savior.
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The term christians is kind've used interchangeably. It can be synonymous with judeo-christians (meaning all jews, catholics, protestants and other Yahweh oriented denominations) and then it can be used as defining those that are the denominations aside from jews and catholics (the protestants and such).

so... it depends on who you ask i guess.
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Literally founded the religion of Christianity
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bladegash posted...

and then it can be used as defining those that are the denominations aside from (...) catholics

That sounds like a definition made up by stupid people who have a chip on their shoulder.

Don't ask Jack Chick, or Hutton Gibson.

I thought Catholicism was a sect of Christianity
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bladegash posted...

The term christians is kind've used interchangeably. It can be synonymous with judeo-christians (meaning all jews, catholics, protestants and other Yahweh oriented denominations) and then it can be used as defining those that are the denominations aside from jews and catholics (the protestants and such).

so... it depends on who you ask i guess.

I thought Judeo-Christian referred to Abrahamic religions and Christian referred specifically to those who believe in and follow Christ
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

bladegash posted...

and then it can be used as defining those that are the denominations aside from (...) catholics

That sounds like a definition made up by stupid people who have a chip on their shoulder.

it was more that it just evolved that way as congregations specified their differences during the colonial era.
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obviously they are

there's nothing to be torn about. Catholics are christians. Objectively
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MrPeppers posted...

bladegash posted...

The term christians is kind've used interchangeably. It can be synonymous with judeo-christians (meaning all jews, catholics, protestants and other Yahweh oriented denominations) and then it can be used as defining those that are the denominations aside from jews and catholics (the protestants and such).

so... it depends on who you ask i guess.

I thought Judeo-Christian referred to Abrahamic religions and Christian referred specifically to those who believe in and follow Christ

it does specifically refer to Abrahamic religions, but not specifically believe in and follow christ. Jews and several other christian denominations don't believe in the same christ or in christ at all.
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If Peter was a Christian then yes.
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yes, absolutely
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They literally founded the religion. Imagine making a new subgenre of music and claiming the genre you broke from is not part of the genre.
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They worship Jesus Christ and they call themselves Christian. That sounds an awful lot like Christianity.

But apparently I'm wrong somehow.

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

They worship Jesus Christ and they call themselves Christian. That sounds an awful lot like Christianity.

But apparently I'm wrong somehow.

The type of person that would say Catholics are not Christians would claim Muslims that aren't terrorists are not real Muslims.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Don't ask Jack Chick.

First person I thought of when I saw this thread lol. Most people know Catholics are Christian.
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Catholics are Christian. It's a fact.

Thanks to people for chiming in on this one. My own leaning is that they are, but just ones that don't revere scripture.
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Literally the original Christians
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Uh

Yeah
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In face-to-face conversations with Catholics, we have literally heard, I am not a Christian, I am Catholic.

That's interesting because having grown up Catholic, I've only heard this from non-Catholics. Basically some Christians don't see Catholics as "true" Christians.
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TheOrgyPorgy posted...

Thanks to people for chiming in on this one. My own leaning is that they are, but just ones that don't revere scripture.

what exactly do you mean by that?
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averagejoel posted...

TheOrgyPorgy posted...

Thanks to people for chiming in on this one. My own leaning is that they are, but just ones that don't revere scripture.

what exactly do you mean by that?

Well, the worship of Mary opposes the theology of the trinity.
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>Believe Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God

Yes they are Christians
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Yes, because they are the most bastardized and hypocritical. Peak Christians.
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Honestly even if you didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah or Son of God but still followed his teachings you would still be a Christian.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

Read the opening chapter of revelations.

Partcularly the part about removing candle sticks.
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Objectively yes

darkphoenix181 posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

Read the opening chapter of revelations.

Partcularly the part about removing candle sticks.

Aren't you a young earth creationist?

It's debatable.

On paper, yes.

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.
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DoGCyN posted...

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.

Not if you're a total dick during your life and rely on God sparing you anyway because he can.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

Read the opening chapter of revelations.

Partcularly the part about removing candle sticks.

Aren't you a young earth creationist?

Why would you think that?

I post about dinosaur findings like the thread of pterodaurs having fur.

Also, not sure what that has to do with this thread.
Do you think there is no catholic who believe the earth is young?

Anyways, to be back on topic, the scipture in itself says a church going against christ's will is removed even if that church claims to serve christ.
That is because Jesus in revelations tells the church, repent of x or I myself (Jesus) will excommunicate you.

So that is where the protestants come up with the idea that the apostate church (as they consider it) is no longer christian.

And the idea has also been used by Catholics in that they can excommunicate churches meaning those churches and the people in them will go to hell, aka no longer are christians even though they might claim it.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

SchoolForAnts posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

How can the original Christian denomination that popularized the belief and pre-dated supposedly "true" Christian denominations like protestants, evangelicals and baptists be considered "not Christian"?

Do you believe Judas is still an apostle?
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DoGCyN posted...

It's debatable.

On paper, yes.

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.

Youre debating about what makes a good Christian. Not if they are a Christian.

hockeybub89 posted...

They literally founded the religion. Imagine making a new subgenre of music and claiming the genre you broke from is not part of the genre.

All other Christian religions descend from Catholics. Catholics are the original and still are Christians. They never weren't Christians.
And no. Catholics do not worship Mary. We do not worship the saints. We do not worship idols and statues.
http://www.catholic365.com/article/8486/catholics-dont-worship-mary-and-the-saints-we-venerate-them.html
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EternalDivide posted...

And no. Catholics do not worship Mary. We do not worship the saints. We do not worship idols and statues.
http://www.catholic365.com/article/8486/catholics-dont-worship-mary-and-the-saints-we-venerate-them.html

Sounds like a tomato - to-ma-to thing.

Lithurgically you don't worship them, but to an outsider it might look exactly like you do.

The same way Christians are adamant that the trinity are totes the same entity, but just because thats how your rules define the concept doesn't invalidate the appearance of polytheism to ones not bound by those rules.

For Christianity, it is hard case to say being original or coming first is important.

This is a religion in which the first born has been rejected as a matter of principal:
Cain, esau, Isreal's rejection

Jesus: the first shall be last

Then we have talk of a falling away in the first century church.

(I am not arguing catholics aren't christian by the broad term for classification purposes, but explaining the logic for someone saying they aren't)
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darkphoenix181 posted...

This is a religion in which the first born has been rejected as a matter of principal:
Cain, esau, Isreal's rejection

Jesus: the first shall be last

What Jesus said is a metaphor within a parable. And the parable also says the last will be first. Even if the parable is talking about the stages of Christianity, do you think Protestantism is the last evolution of Christianity? And do you think Protestant Churches aren't set in their own ways just like the Catholic Church is?

Christianity is believing in and following Jesus. If you're going to include the rest of the Bible into Christianity than I hope you don't wear clothes made of different materials.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

DoGCyN posted...

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.

Not if you're a total dick during your life and rely on God sparing you anyway because he can.

Well that escalated quickly.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

DoGCyN posted...

It's debatable.

On paper, yes.

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.

Youre debating about what makes a good Christian. Not if they are a Christian.

No, I'm debating if they are a Christian. Having Jesus is the foundation of what makes someone a Christian. Having that Grace. Catholics typically shoot for works first as if that is what saves you, when Jesus is the only thing that saves you in Christianity.
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Catholics yes, Protestants no.

DoGCyN posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

DoGCyN posted...

In practice, they tend to put works before grace. Grace is more important.

Not if you're a total dick during your life and rely on God sparing you anyway because he can.

Well that escalated quickly.

Not really, I just don't agree with people who think that faith in Jesis is the only thing you need to be saved.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

What Jesus said is a metaphor within a parable. And the parable also says the last will be first. Even if the parable is talking about the stages of Christianity, do you think Protestantism is the last evolution of Christianity? And do you think Protestant Churches aren't set in their own ways just like the Catholic Church is?

Christianity is believing in and following Jesus. If you're going to include the rest of the Bible into Christianity than I hope you don't wear clothes made of different materials

My only point was the argument of "we are the firsr church" is a bad one seeing how judeo-christianity was built by usurping the idea that what comes first is best or right.

That is why John told those in his time that being a descendant of Abraham is moot, God can make these stones into his descendents.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Christianity is believing in and following Jesus.

I mean, the protestants agree here. The regormation idea was the catholic church no longer followed Jesus and began doing it's own things.
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