Current Events > It sucks Square shit the bed so hard with FFXV, they really had the potential

(+) Yeah! (+)

Potentially good story, great music, really cool setting, potential for unique environments...

I think if the quests actually fleshed out the story (not just hur dur i like frogs go get frogs) they expanded the world past chapter 13 where you could explore, where you could do stuff in Hillary Clinton land...it could have been something.

Those summons and music were pretty bad ass

I was a little excited after seeing the video of Ramuh, but then I played the Platinum demo and lost all interest.
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It was always going to be bad because Nomura is a hack.
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If Square would just go the way they used to and release main series FFs on a shorter cycle (1-2 years apart) and release consistently decent stuff rather than trying to go balls-in on a "masterpiece" I think most people would forgive the slightly worse games since they honestly can't be THAT much worse than the garbage they make us wait years and years for.

Go back to turn based combat, its not hard.
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Need turn based again
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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Go back to turn based combat, its not hard.

darkphoenix181 posted...

Need turn based again

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Turn based is so damn boring to me now lol

The combat in FFXV was dope. It just needed to fix a few things.

I still put like 130 hours into that game.
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YonicBoom posted...

If Square would just go the way they used to and release main series FFs on a shorter cycle (1-2 years apart) and release consistently decent stuff rather than trying to go balls-in on a "masterpiece" I think most people would forgive the slightly worse games since they honestly can't be THAT much worse than the garbage they make us wait years and years for.

I'd prefer waiting years for a potential masterpiece over some cookie cutter mediocrity.

Though the problem with this game was with management in itself. The end result isn't what it was meant to be, they just decided to cut their losses and put a game out asap, after another deadline broke, and XV is the result.
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They need to put out another retro title like FFIX IMO.

Cartoonish models, fantasy setting, all that shit.

"Oh no, nobody would buy old school shit."

*looks over at Dragon Quest*

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

They need to put out another retro title like FFIX IMO.

Cartoonish models, fantasy setting, all that shit.

"Oh no, nobody would buy old school shit."

*looks over at Dragon Quest*

World of Final Fantasy is that

CruelBuffalo posted...

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

They need to put out another retro title like FFIX IMO.

Cartoonish models, fantasy setting, all that shit.

"Oh no, nobody would buy old school shit."

*looks over at Dragon Quest*

World of Final Fantasy is that

That and the upcoming crystal chronicles remaster
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Middle hope posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

They need to put out another retro title like FFIX IMO.

Cartoonish models, fantasy setting, all that shit.

"Oh no, nobody would buy old school shit."

*looks over at Dragon Quest*

World of Final Fantasy is that

That and the upcoming crystal chronicles remaster

Oh shitttt thats deadass?

CruelBuffalo posted...

World of Final Fantasy is that

I thought world of FF was some pokemon rip off

IF not, good, I'll have to check it out. It's coming out on Switch soon right?

FF World is boring....part of it is cause it's turn-based.
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The last good single player Final Fantasy game they produced was Final Fantasy 12. They've had four mainstream titles that have sucked to varying degrees.
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It really is interesting to compare the gameplay in this game (2016) with the original Kingdom Hearts title from 2002.

The gameplay was SO much worse than the standard that Square set more than a decade ago, and to think that this was a Final Fantasy title with a number... Magic was unusable due to friendly fire (which you couldnt turn off) and the skill tree was effectively useless other than the accessory slot unlocks.

The story literally didnt exist. You could write the entire detailed story out in one quick paragraph. The characters got much gloomier and darker as the story went on, but I never did like them much, especially the main character.

Otherwise, it was just another pathetic exhibit in the arms race that developers are having to see who can make the biggest game. This has proven, time and time again, to be a bad move because it diverts manpower and money away from the story and gameplay and what we wind up with is a massive, open world game with tons of essentially useless treasure and countless fetch quests. See RDR2.

The developers are literally fifteen years behind us, back when people used to bicker over the graphical capabilities of the PS2/GC. We dont give a shit if a game is omg the biggest evar! because graphics have pretty much hit the peak of what theyre going to be. The bigger the game and the better the graphics, the bigger the guarantee to have to spend three hours installing it and updating the system.

Modern console gaming is a chore and the attitude of game developers is ruining video games. FFXV could be summed up simply by saying, forget the gameplay and story, lets make the biggest FF game ever, because thats what we think people want.
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Alucard188 posted...

The last good single player Final Fantasy game they produced was Final Fantasy 12. They've had four mainstream titles that have sucked to varying degrees.

After replaying 12 again as a mature adult. Nah to me. Worst music of the modern ones, bland story, bad pacing.

Thing is, last real turn based ff was 14 years ago.

The next ff being an arpg would mean they stop "innovating". Since each ff has completely new battle systems.

Ffxiii was kinda turn based but had some weird things that deviated from that hard.

Arpg people got their mainline ff. Time for a shooter :p
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I want to do a FF marathon because

>_>

<_<

I haven't beaten a single one. Haven't even played 7.

Then everyone starts ripping on them, and I become a little nervous about it.
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PiOverlord posted...

I want to do a FF marathon because

>_>

<_<

I haven't beaten a single one. Haven't even played 7.

Then everyone starts ripping on them, and I become a little nervous about it.

Popular things get ripped on.

Just think that people buy the remasters.

That means they are still great games.
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XII was... okay.
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The problem with FF15 was being in development hell for a decade, literately Duke Nukem Forever with changing directors and restarting from scratch every other years. Watched a half-hour youtube-documentary about it recently and it was heartbreaking; good documentary. Like two minutes before the video actually said it; you could tell they were saying the hometown that gets destroyed early on should have made you grow attached first like FF7's Midgar.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

FF World is boring....part of it is cause it's turn-based.

WoFF is boring because its so slow they put a fastforward button in it... that makes your finger sore from holding it the whole time, especially the cutscenes where they talk slow, repeat themselves, and try to make puns constantly, making it much longer than it needs to be.

Other than that though... the "pokemon" are actually pretty neat, and there's Materia-like & Sphere-Grid-ish systems as well.

I mean honestly, what we need is Bravely Third, and I don't mean Octopath Traveler.
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X was the last great FF

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Go back to turn based combat, its not hard.

This please. DQ still sells like hotcakes.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Thing is, last real turn based ff was 14 years ago.

The next ff being an arpg would mean they stop "innovating". Since each ff has completely new battle systems.

Ffxiii was kinda turn based but had some weird things that deviated from that hard.

Arpg people got their mainline ff. Time for a shooter :p

Episode Prompto DLC for FFXV, but was done badly

PiOverlord posted...

I want to do a FF marathon because

>_>

<_<

I haven't beaten a single one. Haven't even played 7.

Then everyone starts ripping on them, and I become a little nervous about it.

Pretty sure FF3(America)/6(Japan) aged the best out of all of them. Start with that
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FFXV made bank tho

Square lost money from doing other shit and from cancelling projects they sunk money in

XV is fine for what it is. People that had monumental expectations for it were gravely overestimating what it could be
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voldothegr8 posted...

X was the last great FF

And coincidently turn based.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

World of Final Fantasy is that

I thought world of FF was some pokemon rip off

IF not, good, I'll have to check it out. It's coming out on Switch soon right?

I'd say a better description is turn based game with Pokemon elements.

Was a lot better than I expected it to be. Although some of the characters are the-cringe
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CruelBuffalo posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Thing is, last real turn based ff was 14 years ago.

The next ff being an arpg would mean they stop "innovating". Since each ff has completely new battle systems.

Ffxiii was kinda turn based but had some weird things that deviated from that hard.

Arpg people got their mainline ff. Time for a shooter :p

Episode Prompto DLC for FFXV, but was done badly

I read this wrong the first time. I liked Promtos gameplay tbh
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after
ff11
ff12
ff13
ff13
ff13
ff14

oh hey ff15 might be good
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Alucard188 posted...

The last good single player Final Fantasy game they produced was Final Fantasy 12. They've had four mainstream titles that have sucked to varying degrees.

After replaying 12 again as a mature adult. Nah to me. Worst music of the modern ones, bland story, bad pacing.

I agree. Final Fantasy 12 was one of the biggest gaming disappointments in my entire life.

....wait...
...
... huh...
...
.. this is the gameplay?

I seriously felt betrayed at that point. After making 11 an online only title, I could no longer proudly say that Id played every game in the series. Then they jusy said, well, we are lazy fucks and to punish you for disliking the online only gimmick game (that should have been called FF online), we will give you the same boring combat system.

X was not as good as 7/8/9/Tactics, but it was good enough to say that it was before the fall of the series. I had my share of fun with 13, but it just wasnt right. If that game had a turn based combat system where you could control your entire partys specific actions, it would have been WAY better.
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ModLogic posted...

after
ff11
ff12
ff13
ff13
ff13
ff14

oh hey ff15 might be good

11 and 14 are good tho

CruelBuffalo posted...

ModLogic posted...

after
ff11
ff12
ff13
ff13
ff13
ff14

oh hey ff15 might be good

11 and 14 are good tho

and XII is the best in the series
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

ModLogic posted...

after
ff11
ff12
ff13
ff13
ff13
ff14

oh hey ff15 might be good

11 and 14 are good tho

and XII is the best in the series

12 is a worse version of 11 so unsure how thats possible

DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Square lost money from doing other shit and from cancelling projects they sunk money in

Most of Squares losses the past few years have been related to FF14 original and overestimating on Eidos titles.

They also lost money on NT but not sure how much since it's an arcade port and the arcade is profitable.
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Given how long it was in development hell, I doubt it made a profit. Which is why they had to cancel their like decade long DLC plans.
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Square lost money from doing other shit and from cancelling projects they sunk money in

XV is fine for what it is. People that had monumental expectations for it were gravely overestimating what it could be

Not as much as you think.

8 mil as the "fastest selling ff ever" sounds impressive, but it actually is not.

See my analysis in this thread:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/77183764/912341827

Essentially, ffix having 3 mil sold in 2000 is way way more impressive than 8 mil ffxv sold in modern times.

That is because 8 mil isn't even a release record anymore for a game.
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BLAKUboy posted...

DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Given how long it was in development hell, I doubt it made a profit. Which is why they had to cancel their like decade long DLC plans.

It made back budget in its first week alone

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-broke-even-on-development-costs-i/1100-6447626/
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I hope they do something with position in turn-based fights. Not to the level of Tactics, but just add some concept of range and positioning, something that can be done quickly but still have depth.

Also, I hope they make some fucking hotkeys and shortcuts for menuing as a default. Long past due as a standard.
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Given how long it was in development hell, I doubt it made a profit. Which is why they had to cancel their like decade long DLC plans.

It made back budget in its first week alone

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-broke-even-on-development-costs-i/1100-6447626/

Another misleading consideration.

At launch ffxv sold like 5 to 6 mil.

But see, after that, it hasn't sold that much.

Lifetime sales atm are around 8 or 9 mil.

So in a year it has only sold like 3 mil.

That initial 6 mil might have broke even, but breaking even is not good enough.

In comparision, skyrim sold 7 mil in the first week and has 30 mil lifetime so far.

This is what kind of sales they wanted thinking arpg open world means you hit those numbers.
Their analysts were wrong.
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I love XII but see why people don't like it, but idk how people can like X.
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Guide posted...

YonicBoom posted...

If Square would just go the way they used to and release main series FFs on a shorter cycle (1-2 years apart) and release consistently decent stuff rather than trying to go balls-in on a "masterpiece" I think most people would forgive the slightly worse games since they honestly can't be THAT much worse than the garbage they make us wait years and years for.

I'd prefer waiting years for a potential masterpiece over some cookie cutter mediocrity.

Though the problem with this game was with management in itself. The end result isn't what it was meant to be, they just decided to cut their losses and put a game out asap, after another deadline broke, and XV is the result.

This, it was another MGSV: Phantom Pain situation.

I don't want the FF series to turn out like Tales where a new game is out every 18 months or 2 years (although the Tales games have been more entertaining than FF over the last decade).
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@Guide posted...

I hope they do something with position in turn-based fights. Not to the level of Tactics, but just add some concept of range and positioning, something that can be done quickly but still have depth.

Check out Radiant Historia for the DS.
The 3DS remaster has a demo on the eShop.
It's basically Chrono Trigger (time travel story and AoE attacks) with pushing skills;
For example: push all enemies to the left, then nuke the left side with a strong spell.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

DezDroppedFreak posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

DezDroppedFreak posted...

FFXV made bank tho

Given how long it was in development hell, I doubt it made a profit. Which is why they had to cancel their like decade long DLC plans.

It made back budget in its first week alone

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-broke-even-on-development-costs-i/1100-6447626/

Another misleading consideration.

At launch ffxv sold like 5 to 6 mil.

But see, after that, it hasn't sold that much.

Lifetime sales atm are around 8 or 9 mil.

So in a year it has only sold like 3 mil.

That initial 6 mil might have broke even, but breaking even is not good enough.

In comparision, skyrim sold 7 mil in the first week and has 30 mil lifetime so far.

This is what kind of sales they wanted thinking arpg open world means you hit those numbers.
Their analysts were wrong.

For a game stuck in development hell for as long as FFXV making budget back is a godsend
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DoomSwell posted...

@Guide posted...

I hope they do something with position in turn-based fights. Not to the level of Tactics, but just add some concept of range and positioning, something that can be done quickly but still have depth.

Check out Radiant Historia for the DS.
The 3DS remaster has a demo on the eShop.
It's basically Chrono Trigger (time travel story and AoE attacks) with pushing skills;
For example: push all enemies to the left, then nuke the left side with a strong spell.

Actually, that sounds pretty cool. My biggest problem with Chrono Trigger is how the positioning is made almost immediately redundant by nuke spells.
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

For a game stuck in development hell for as long as FFXV making budget back is a godsend

I agree.
But it speaks nothing to what the future direction of the series should be other than that they likely won't get skyrim numbers with arpg open world.

Seeing how ffxiii also was fastest selling, if they jusr made a good classic jrpg, they would likely hit skyrim and that is ff7 numbers.
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Guide posted...

DoomSwell posted...

@Guide posted...

I hope they do something with position in turn-based fights. Not to the level of Tactics, but just add some concept of range and positioning, something that can be done quickly but still have depth.

Check out Radiant Historia for the DS.
The 3DS remaster has a demo on the eShop.
It's basically Chrono Trigger (time travel story and AoE attacks) with pushing skills;
For example: push all enemies to the left, then nuke the left side with a strong spell.

Actually, that sounds pretty cool. My biggest problem with Chrono Trigger is how the positioning is made almost immediately redundant by nuke spells.

Positioning was always irrelevant because you couldn't actually control the positions. You can try Lost Sphear for a more well thought out take on the coat system but it's inferior in every other way.
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Taharqa_ posted...

(although the Tales games have been more entertaining than FF over the last decade).

Wow it's almost like releasing more games means you have more chances to do more interesting things, and gamers get to play more stuff and buy more games.

Development time, beyond what is reasonably required to make the game, has little influence on how good a game is gonna be, you're better off releasing something complete and evolving it over a few iterations than having no releases during that time.

I hate that they kept pumping dlc out to the point of having to cancel it. Now it feels incomplete. Very annoying.
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