Current Events > As a surgeon, hands down the absolute worst type of patient to deal with...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jehovah's Witnesses. They want everything done except the one thing that will save their lives in the event of a massive hemorrhage. And then they cop an attitude when you have the honest discussion with them about the very real risks of surgery. Some are cool with it and will accept blood/blood products as long as their community doesn't find out, and some are cool with just dying on the table but I deal with mostly healthy pregnant women. It's beyond frustrating guys.
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Dr. Pepper? I bet you get a lot of shit for that.
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Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Dr. Pepper? I bet you get a lot of shit for that.

People actually double take and don't believe me when they hear it, lol. I usually have to show them my badge.
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MrPeppers posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Dr. Pepper? I bet you get a lot of shit for that.

People actually double take and don't believe me when they hear it, lol. I usually have to show them my badge.

lol that's amazing. Now if only Barbie and Suzy/Nancy/etc worked with you too
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They are also the worst type of patients to deal with when they are bleeding their asses out and we can't transfuse :(

gotta consult GI for a colonoscopy
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megamanfreakXD posted...

They are also the worst type of patients to deal with when they are bleeding their asses out and we can't transfuse :(

gotta consult GI for a colonoscopy

We literally had a patient with a placenta accreta yesterday who absolutely positively refused blood and blood products but wanted cell saver only. Like, an accreta is almost a guaranteed 10 units of blood by nature of the disease. We're at the point where we're just going to do a hysterectomy to minimize blood loss.
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MrPeppers posted...

Jehovah's Witnesses. They want everything done except the one thing that will save their lives in the event of a massive hemorrhage. And then they cop an attitude when you have the honest discussion with them about the very real risks of surgery. Some are cool with it and will accept blood/blood products as long as their community doesn't find out, and some are cool with just dying on the table but I deal with mostly healthy pregnant women. It's beyond frustrating guys.

That's fine. It's their life.

Problem is when Jehovah's Witnesses don't want you to save their kids.
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Had a JW patient with postop anemia after a total knee replacement and they couldn't transfuse PRBCs. Patient instead had to get multiple doses of iron products to help increase those hemoglobin levels.
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Well maybe you should try cutting into people in a way that doesn't cause them to bleed. SMH

They do it for (misguided) Biblical reasons at the end of the day, but it's criminal how they really push the "dangers of blood transfusions" and how there are "so many better alternatives" to soften the blow of having an insane medical rule. The rhetoric inside the religion is disturbing, that's where that smug attitude comes from.
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had a GI bleeder JW in the ICU. Dude had like JW bodyguards around the clock taking shifts making sure he doesn't get blood products. Its crazy. I respect religion, as I am religious myself, but their philosophy is insane. EGD controlled his bleeding ulcer but his hb was like 5.0 and he was so weak he could barely get from his bed to the bathroom. He'd get dizzy every time. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but they say blood represents life that only god is allowed to give. I mean if you interpret that correctly, then you shouldn't be having any medical intervention done at all because 'only god can control life'. But to literally interpret it as just blood alone doesn't make any sense. Alternatively god gave humans the intelligence to be able to develop advance medical procedures. Not making use of that and allowing yourself to die would in turn be disrespectful to god.
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Y'all should just learn to go with the flow. Do your job to the best of your abilities, and that's all you can do. Patients have a right to make their choices, don't let it get to you.
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DanHarenChamp posted...

had a GI bleeder JW in the ICU. Dude had like JW bodyguards around the clock taking shifts making sure he doesn't get blood products. Its crazy. I respect religion, as I am religious myself, but their philosophy is insane. EGD controlled his bleeding ulcer but his hb was like 5.0 and he was so weak he could barely get from his bed to the bathroom. He'd get dizzy every time. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but they say blood represents life that only god is allowed to give. I mean if you interpret that correctly, then you shouldn't be having any medical intervention done at all because 'only god can control life'. But to literally interpret it as just blood alone doesn't make any sense. Alternatively god gave humans the intelligence to be able to develop advance medical procedures. Not making use of that and allowing yourself to die would in turn be disrespectful to god.

They do believe that blood represents life, but not really the whole only god can control life angle.

They mostly do it simply because the bible says to abstain from eating blood. Even though the original scripture was talking about showing respect to the animal life you killed that you're about to eat by pouring its blood back to the ground (almost like a native-style ritual to show respect to natural life), JWs have interpreted that as meaning not a drop of someone else's blood can enter their body in any way, transfusions included. So they're completely missing the entire point of the scripture and being pedantic about it to the point of killing themselves. It's a self-imposed form of martyrdom.

Houston posted...

Y'all should just learn to go with the flow. Do your job to the best of your abilities, and that's all you can do. Patients have a right to make their choices, don't let it get to you.

The problem comes when a member who may not fully believe it, or perhaps a child, is highly pressured into it by their JW peers or parents. That's when it becomes a problem. Members are threatened with disfellowshipping and shunning, even minors, if they resort to saving their own lives by taking blood.
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Yeah, I was born and raised as one. I left when I was 14 or so, but they have incredibly strict rules about transfusions. Most aren't stupid enough to actually let it go far enough to kill them, but there are a few who have died over it. The problem is that the organization spreads propaganda about blood diseases and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Honestly, though, this isn't a twist on their doctrine or anything. They regularly promote martyrdom for the cause. At least when it comes to your rank and file members. I'm not so sure the nebulous 'governing body' would be so self-sacrificing.

Dash_Harber posted...

Yeah, I was born and raised as one. I left when I was 14 or so, but they have incredibly strict rules about transfusions. Most aren't stupid enough to actually let it go far enough to kill them, but there are a few who have died over it. The problem is that the organization spreads propaganda about blood diseases and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Honestly, though, this isn't a twist on their doctrine or anything. They regularly promote martyrdom for the cause. At least when it comes to your rank and file members. I'm not so sure the nebulous 'governing body' would be so self-sacrificing.

I think most are stupid enough, actually.

Here's the cover of a watchtower magazine praising the deaths of the children pictured:

http://www.answerjw.com/cftf/comments/deadkids.gif

They all refused blood and died for it.

And I don't know how long ago you left, but the governing body isn't nebulous at all anymore. Back in the day they were, I remember, but now they appear on their broadcasts shows and in videos shown at the meetings and all that stuff. Everyone knows their names and faces and who they are now. It's really different from back in the 90s.

Keeping up with the JWs is a masochistic hobby of mine.
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spanky1 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Yeah, I was born and raised as one. I left when I was 14 or so, but they have incredibly strict rules about transfusions. Most aren't stupid enough to actually let it go far enough to kill them, but there are a few who have died over it. The problem is that the organization spreads propaganda about blood diseases and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Honestly, though, this isn't a twist on their doctrine or anything. They regularly promote martyrdom for the cause. At least when it comes to your rank and file members. I'm not so sure the nebulous 'governing body' would be so self-sacrificing.

I think most are stupid enough, actually.

Here's the cover of a watchtower magazine praising the deaths of the children pictured:

http://www.answerjw.com/cftf/comments/deadkids.gif

They all refused blood and died for it.

And I don't know how long ago you left, but the governing body isn't nebulous at all anymore. Back in the day they were, I remember, but now they appear on their broadcasts shows and in videos shown at the meetings and all that stuff. Everyone knows their names and faces and who they are now. It's really different from back in the 90s.

Keeping up with the JWs is a masochistic hobby of mine.

I mean, you don't have to tell me that they praise the martyrdom of people who refuse blood, especially since I already said that, but yeah, the governing body is pictured and named, but it's still pretty nebulous, at least in the sense that they aren't really reachable by anyone or held accountable for anything, and every prophecy or thing that they say is not tied to any individual.

In fact, they've actually closed ranks more as far as I can tell. There used to be a doctrine about the 144,000 who would be part of a heavenly government after the apocalypse ("The Faithful and Discreet Slave"). Anyone could be part of it and they were the only ones who could partake of the ceremonial wine and bread during The Memorial. You were supposed to just know if you part of it.

Now they've changed it so that the only people who can be part of it are in the governing body. It's all pretty fucking sketchy.

I knew a Jehovah's Witness. He did not celebrate Christmas yet he accepted a Christmas bonus
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Dash_Harber posted...

and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Well, dialysis is a thing.

It's not for that, but it does exist.
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DrizztLink posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Well, dialysis is a thing.

It's not for that, but it does exist.

Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't alternatives, but they aren't just hidden in the next room waiting for you to ask for them as they imply.

Dash_Harber posted...

DrizztLink posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

and how there is all sorts of alternatives to transfusions like devices that 'clean' your own blood and put it back.

Well, dialysis is a thing.

It's not for that, but it does exist.

Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't alternatives, but they aren't just hidden in the next room waiting for you to ask for them as they imply.

Side note: I fucking hate the dialysis ward.

It smells wrong.
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I hate it when they knock on my door 7am
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Lordgold666 posted...

I hate it when they knock on my door 7am

If you tell them not to call on you anymore, it should buy you about a year. At least that was the policy. Lots of people ignored it, though.

MrPeppers posted...

Jehovah's Witnesses. They want everything done except the one thing that will save their lives in the event of a massive hemorrhage. And then they cop an attitude when you have the honest discussion with them about the very real risks of surgery. Some are cool with it and will accept blood/blood products as long as their community doesn't find out, and some are cool with just dying on the table but I deal with mostly healthy pregnant women. It's beyond frustrating guys.

I believe there's another method to bypass a jehovah's witness' belief in not receiving blood. Often times they know that it sucks, but they themselves don't want to make that choice, so what they do to get around that binding belief is assign a NON jehovah's witness as a health care proxy or agent who can then bypass that choice of no blood ever. Win win for everyone.

The ethics on that...well...they picked the proxy?

My bad I meant medical power of attorney I believe. I'm not sure.
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Rainbow_Dashing posted...

MrPeppers posted...

Jehovah's Witnesses. They want everything done except the one thing that will save their lives in the event of a massive hemorrhage. And then they cop an attitude when you have the honest discussion with them about the very real risks of surgery. Some are cool with it and will accept blood/blood products as long as their community doesn't find out, and some are cool with just dying on the table but I deal with mostly healthy pregnant women. It's beyond frustrating guys.

I believe there's another method to bypass a jehovah's witness' belief in not receiving blood. Often times they know that it sucks, but they themselves don't want to make that choice, so what they do to get around that binding belief is assign a NON jehovah's witness as a health care proxy or agent who can then bypass that choice of no blood ever. Win win for everyone.

The ethics on that...well...they picked the proxy?

My bad I meant medical power of attorney I believe. I'm not sure.

Advance Healthcare Directive.
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Complete_Idi0t posted...

Well maybe you should try cutting into people in a way that doesn't cause them to bleed. SMH

lol
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Ive taken custody of several children to give blood transfusions over the past few years. Sorry, your kids not dying for your beliefs on my watch
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MrPeppers posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Dr. Pepper? I bet you get a lot of shit for that.

People actually double take and don't believe me when they hear it, lol. I usually have to show them my badge.

That's awesome

I have college professor named Oak and he's a real sport when it comes to Pokemon references
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

MrPeppers posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Dr. Pepper? I bet you get a lot of shit for that.

People actually double take and don't believe me when they hear it, lol. I usually have to show them my badge.

That's awesome

I have college professor named Oak and he's a real sport when it comes to Pokemon references

Him having to clarify if someone is a boy or a girl must be a hoot in the current political climate.
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