Current Events > Potential educators dumb down science more when trying to educate girls

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.smh.com.au/education/adults-dumb-down-science-lessons-for-girls-study-20181010-p508qe.html

A new study has found that adults assume eight-year-old girls have less aptitude for physics than boys. They also use less scientific terminology when teaching girls about science than they use when giving lessons to male students.

Led by Ava's mother, senior lecturer in early childhood at Macquarie University Carol Newall, the researchers also found that adults believed girls had less interest in science if they liked ''feminine'' things such as tea parties and the colour pink.

None of the adults involved in the study consciously believed girls were less competent, but their actions betrayed an unconscious bias, said Dr Newall. ''It's cultural," she said. "I do it too. There are occasions when I pick up a construction toy for my son.

"But it shows girls may be losing some expertise early on because they are not getting as much information from adults at a young age. Eight years old is pretty young to start perceiving girls as less competent."

Left out in this explanation, while they explicitly believed boys would be better at physics, they didn't explicitly believe this of biology. Though when giving lessons on biology and earth science, use less technical language when teaching girls, rather than boys.
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Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Oh, it's just more "why aren't stem fields equally populated" bitching from people that themselves have no interest in stem.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Do you believe that there's no one on one interaction in early education?
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COVxy posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Do you believe that there's no one on one interaction in early education?

Of course there is, but I don't believe this bias is a hurdle to their education or their "career"
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

COVxy posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Do you believe that there's no one on one interaction in early education?

Of course there is, but I don't believe this bias is a hurdle to their education or their "career"

For what reason?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

COVxy posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Do you believe that there's no one on one interaction in early education?

Of course there is, but I don't believe this bias is a hurdle to their education or their "career"

sure it is. it affects students' beliefs about what they are capable of, which affects their motivation and what they invest effort into.

if people focus on telling girls they are pretty, and not on pushing them on science, what do you think they are more inclined to value

dumb study that proves nothing and only fuels the lefts beliefs that education is sexist
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Rick-C137 posted...

dumb study that proves nothing and only fuels the lefts beliefs that education is sexist

care to explain why the study is dumb, and why it proves nothing?

and perhaps one explanation is that leftists believe education is sexist because there are some sexist biases that people have because of societal conditioning?

because teachers don't go 1-on-1 with elementary students
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If they learn it anyway does it matter?
Not sure why they bring up biology when that field is not only predominantly female, but every field using it is also female (such as nursing).

Anyway in my highschool they mainly dumbed things down for the rednecks. Public Schools just need better class structuring so that smarter people can go to an advanced class without any hassle.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

If they learn it anyway does it matter?

You don't think that being taught something differently can lead to a different understanding of that thing, and affect things like "interest" or likelihood to pursue the field?
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COVxy posted...

if they liked ''feminine'' things such as tea parties and the colour pink.

Yet almost all departments I've been to and academic-adjacent jobs have tea time!
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whos teaching them differently? are they segregating classes by gender and teaching the boys how awesome science is and the girls how boring it is?
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Maybe they wouldn't feel the need to if girls were actually interested in science
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Man, if only I knew how to science
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YourDrunkFather posted...

Maybe they wouldn't feel the need to if girls were actually interested in science

*physics not science. Please read

COVxy posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

If they learn it anyway does it matter?

You don't think that being taught something differently can lead to a different understanding of that thing, and affect things like "interest" or likelihood to pursue the field?

That's fairly context sensitive.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

YourDrunkFather posted...

Maybe they wouldn't feel the need to if girls were actually interested in science

*physics not science. Please read

Is physics not part of science?
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Man, if only I knew how to science

As an MD not formally trained in such things, you might want to continually question that ability. But that's a separate issue.
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Rick-C137 posted...

whos teaching them differently? are they segregating classes by gender and teaching the boys how awesome science is and the girls how boring it is?

are you under the impression that teachers have this amorphous blob of 'education' that they portion out and hand to every student?
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i'm under the impression a teacher teaches 30ish students not one
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Rick-C137 posted...

i'm under the impression a teacher teaches 30ish students not one

right, and how do you think that occurs? has it been so long since you've been in an elementary classroom that you think the only thing a K-12 teacher does is lecture to the whole class?

even if that were true and they acted like college professors, this would still influence stuff like office hour interactions ...

try thinking a little harder about it
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Frankly I see this as a fact of our society for at least the last century. It's changed for the better over that time as well.
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sounds like this study is just for you, confirms your assumptions
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the only assumption I'm making is that one person being responsible for educating 30 people isn't the same thing as them giving all 30 people the same information in the same way

man why am I even responding, fuck this place tbh
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COVxy posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Man, if only I knew how to science

As an MD not formally trained in such things, you might want to continually question that ability. But that's a separate issue.

Yes. I received no formal training in science with my undergrad in microbiology.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Yes. I received no formal training in science with my undergrad in microbiology.

Yeah, that can be pretty true indeed!
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Balrog0 posted...

the only assumption I'm making is that one person being responsible for educating 30 people isn't the same thing as them giving all 30 people the same information in the same way

they are literally being given the information the same way

how often do you think teachers do 1-on-1s with students?

elementary students at that
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Why isn't this framed as being bad for boys? Boys who might need a slower pace or simpler explanations are deprived of them because they are assumed to know it already.

Rick-C137 posted...

how often do you think teachers do 1-on-1s with students?

Frequently

Rick-C137 posted...

elementary students at that

More frequently than in High School.
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proof?
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COVxy posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

COVxy posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Ok . . . schools/classes are integrated anyways so . . . is this really an issue or mostly nonsense?

Do you believe that there's no one on one interaction in early education?

Of course there is, but I don't believe this bias is a hurdle to their education or their "career"

For what reason?

And when they must articulate their thinking, and not just put forth some platitude...


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Rick-C137 posted...

proof?

I have published research regarding math education, pedagogical training, my own experience as a student, and my mother's experience as an elementary school teacher , just to start.
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COVxy posted...

https://www.smh.com

Fitting.
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How do we know this actually happens in real classes versus just this concocted scenario?

Also, the majority of the teachers here were women, so who/what is at . . . fault?
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I'd be more interested in seeing this repeated with teen girls who are actually of the age to study physics, personally. There is minimal study of mathematical-based sciences until high school.
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Since when do they teach physics to 8 year olds?
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I remember in 2nd grade there were a few teachers that would go to certain classrooms during the week and go to individual students to see how well we read and did math. If the school has the staff and resources, they'd probably have more time to give students a chance to have those one on one sessions.
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Anteaterking posted...

I have published research regarding math education, pedagogical training, my own experience as a student, and my mother's experience as an elementary school teacher , just to start.

and where is all that proof?

sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, teachers teach one way to a class and get a student alone and start subconsciously driving girls from science

i've never had a one-on-one session with any teacher besides discussing grades

how would that even work? the student waits until after class? after school? don't they have tutors for that?
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COVxy posted...

Led by Ava's mother, senior lecturer in early childhood at Macquarie University Carol Newall, the researchers also found that adults believed girls had less interest in science if they liked ''feminine'' things such as tea parties and the colour pink.

There's a bunch of science in a tea-party, if you think about it.
Gravity, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, suspensions and solutions, etc.

LordRazziel posted...

This gets some kids interested in science, yes - or at least the ones who think that metal catching on fire in a bucket of water is awesome.

I love how the extremely cringey account named after 'le smartest man in the universe!' is so fucking stupid in every topic
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Are people honestly still trying to go with the narrative that girls aren't encouraged to go into Science today? That literally hasn't been the case since like the 70s.
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That sucks. I try to dumb down any education I give considerably for everyone, but that's mostly because I grew up writing guides for mouthbreathing gamers with little reading comprehension. :D
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"NinjaBreakfast"

yeah i'm gonna take that opinion seriously
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All these alt righters acting offended like someone just slapped their balls.

Let's try to make it more simple.

Sometimes kids ask for help, and the teacher comes to their desk and bends over, and talks to them about their questions.

In these situations, teachers are a bit more likely to use more simple language if they are a girl.

If they are a boy, they sometimes will use more complex terms.

This isn't an active minded decision on the teacher's part. It's just a tendency.

It might not have a huge impact on each individual, but overall it could cause young girls to internalize that science isn't important for them.

It isn't the end all be all, but it is one small factor in why girls might not be as interested in science.

Things are different than other things. Don't make leaps and assumptions to get offended by a study.

Remember, apparently the libs are the snowflakes.
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MrNintendo1213 posted...

All these alt righters acting offended like someone just slapped their balls.

Let's try to make it more simple.

Sometimes kids ask for help, and the teacher comes to their desk and bends over, and talks to them about their questions.

In these situations, teachers are a bit more likely to use more simple language if they are a girl.

If they are a boy, they sometimes will use more complex terms.

This isn't an active minded decision on the teacher's part. It's just a tendency.

It might not have a huge impact on each individual, but overall it could cause young girls to internalize that science isn't important for them.

It isn't the end all be all, but it is one small factor in why girls might not be as interested in science.

Things are different than other things. Don't make leaps and assumptions to get offended by a study.

Remember, apparently the libs are the snowflakes.

this is what i figured people were talking about and yeah i'm not buying this at all

teachers aren't whispering explanations when students ask a question, they usually tell the entire class
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In what way would dumbing something down make them less interested, assuming the premise is true?

When I go to the mechanic with a woman, they will tailor the questions to me. If the woman goes solo, the concepts may be dumbed down.

I understand how it can happen. But how does that relate to interest? Especially for young children. The opposite would be true, I feel.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

COVxy posted...

Led by Ava's mother, senior lecturer in early childhood at Macquarie University Carol Newall, the researchers also found that adults believed girls had less interest in science if they liked ''feminine'' things such as tea parties and the colour pink.

There's a bunch of science in a tea-party, if you think about it.
Gravity, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, suspensions and solutions, etc.

LordRazziel posted...

This gets some kids interested in science, yes - or at least the ones who think that metal catching on fire in a bucket of water is awesome.

It's a vanish gif...
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LordRazziel posted...

It's a vanish gif...

That will also get kids interested in science.

Questionmarktarius posted...

LordRazziel posted...

It's a vanish gif...

That will also get kids interested in science.

And?
I'm a bit lost.
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