Poll of the Day > Who is the strongest wizard/ magician/ whatevers in gaming?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Minimum power would have to be at LEAST an AD&D Level 8 Wizard, which had the ability to cast pre-nerf Wish.
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Ness
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Kefka became a God of Magic
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Irenicus

there was a thread before where someone tried to have a contest to see who was the most powerful mage. it seemed to turn out that there aren't actually all that many powerful mage characters unless you stretch the meaning quite a bit.
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All gaming? Table top D&D included?
Raistlin Majere.

Jesus
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dark schneider
what, he got a shit game
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obviously the old man in zelda
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Sahuagin posted...

Irenicus

there was a thread before where someone tried to have a contest to see who was the most powerful mage. it seemed to turn out that there aren't actually all that many powerful mage characters unless you stretch the meaning quite a bit.

Ya, take the mentioned Kefka for example - he becomes the defacto god of magic and what does he do with it? Something that the Empire could already do with their weapons. Kefka lost all creativity after becoming "omnipotent"... I swear the only reason the party wins is because he's bored with life

EDIT: Which ironically would be a good bookend for the plot as a whole, given what happens
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Does Ainz Ooal Gown count because he's in an anime about a MMO? >_>
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Zeus posted...

Does Ainz Ooal Gown count because he's in an anime about a MMO? >_>

I could allow it, but I don't know his powerscale
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Raistlinn can like shoot meteors and shit but he's also so frail a swift wind could knock him over.
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Zangulus posted...

Shantoto.

Was going to say this. Never played 11 but dissidia games make it clear enough she's at least the strongest FF mage. She acts bored even in the presence of someone like kefka.
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never really thought of Kefka as an actual mage since he didn't really do anything to earn his abilities
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Sahuagin posted...

never really thought of Kefka as an actual mage since he didn't really do anything to earn his abilities

Its like that sometimes though. In some lores some mages are just natural and didn't do jack to earn it
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mooreandrew58 posted...

didn't do jack to earn it

All he did was stand in the middle of three statues.
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Twindragonfang posted...

All gaming? Table top D&D included?
Raistlin Majere.

You mean Fistandantilus?
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EclairReturns posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

didn't do jack to earn it

All he did was stand in the middle of three statues.

I know what he did but I was saying in some lores some people are just born with it and already good at it.

Off the top of my head the main ones I can think of are the black waltzes from 9. Yeah sure they were created not born but if you don't think they are living things you'd have admit neither was vivi. And Vivi proved to be almost the most human of them all
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The Scribblenauts kid
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Its like that sometimes though. In some lores some mages are just natural and didn't do jack to earn it

I feel like I wouldn't call that a mage then.

For Kefka and FF6 in general, it's kind of weird because... "magic" in that game all comes from Espers. There's little or no skill involved for anyone. Everyone just absorbs magical ability and gains it innately.

to me, a mage or a wizard is someone who has spent enormous amounts of time studying and learning and practicing and has knowledge and skill that are theoretically available to anyone, but they alone have earned the ability.

but I guess that's a needlessly strict definition that I just prefer. I know in D&D, sorcerers are supposed to have innate abilities, whereas wizards have worked hard for their skills.

I guess I prefer it to be about knowledge and skill. if you can just wave your hands and control magical energy innately, then you're just a magical being, not a practitioner of magic.
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Sahuagin posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Its like that sometimes though. In some lores some mages are just natural and didn't do jack to earn it

I feel like I wouldn't call that a mage then.

For Kefka and FF6 in general, it's kind of weird because... "magic" in that game all comes from Espers. There's little or no skill involved for anyone. Everyone just absorbs magical ability and gains it innately.

to me, a mage or a wizard is someone who has spent enormous amounts of time studying and learning and practicing and has knowledge and skill that are theoretically available to anyone, but they alone have earned the ability.

but I guess that's a needlessly strict definition that I just prefer. I know in D&D, sorcerers are supposed to have innate abilities, whereas wizards have worked hard for their skills.

I guess I prefer it to be about knowledge and skill. if you can just wave your hands and control magical energy innately, then you're just a magical being, not a practitioner of magic.

Well I think you'd be in the minority thinking the black waltzes aren't mages. Also porom and plaom from 4. While they did study and got better they where apparently prodigies that were naturally gifted and didnt need to be taught to use it, just to get better at it
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Me.

Simon the sorcerer
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The Dark Magician?
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Well I think you'd be in the minority thinking the black waltzes aren't mages. Also porom and plaom from 4. While they did study and got better they where apparently prodigies that were naturally gifted and didnt need to be taught to use it, just to get better at it

I don't know the black waltzes

Porom and Palom have specifically been studying magic since being children. they are naturally talented, but they still learn and are still only performing magic through knowledge and skill.

the difference is something like, do I throw a fireball because for some reason that I'm not aware of I can just generate fireballs with my hands (magical being), or do I throw a fireball because I know that fire energy is channeled via the blah blah and moving my arms this way forms a conduit blah blah, and thus I get a fireball.
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Sahuagin posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Well I think you'd be in the minority thinking the black waltzes aren't mages. Also porom and plaom from 4. While they did study and got better they where apparently prodigies that were naturally gifted and didnt need to be taught to use it, just to get better at it

I don't know the black waltzes

Porom and Palom have specifically been studying magic since being children. they are naturally talented, but they still learn and are still only performing magic through knowledge and skill.

the difference is something like, do I throw a fireball because for some reason that I'm not aware of I can just generate fireballs with my hands (magical being), or do I throw a fireball because I know that fire energy is channeled via the blah blah and moving my arms this way forms a conduit blah blah, and thus I get a fireball.

I know better examples of what I'm saying exists I just can't think of any right now.

Either was I'd consider kefka a mage. To me its the end results that matter not the how they got there. He just cheated if you wanna call it that
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Either was I'd consider kefka a mage. To me its the end results that matter not the how they got there. He just cheated if you wanna call it that

Plus I'm referring to power scale, not their effort
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So far no one mentioned is even as strong as Elminster
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Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings game that came out on GameCube. He wields that staff of his like nobody else.

The Washington wizards- nba jam

The Emperor of Mankind is objectively stronger than anyone else listed here
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I'd have to go with one of the big name wizards in D&D too.

Troll_Police_ posted...

The Emperor of Mankind is objectively stronger than anyone else listed here

I'll admit my warhammer 40k lore is pretty hazy, but isn't he the most powerful psyker, not a mage?

Lokarin posted...

Minimum power would have to be at LEAST an AD&D Level 8 Wizard, which had the ability to cast pre-nerf Wish.

Typo? 8th would be nuts. Its a 9th level spell. You don't get those until 18th level for 1st and 2nd edition and, 17th level for 3rd and 5th. I'm not sure if the spell exists in 4th.
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Would Indalecio from Star Ocean 2 count as a wizard/magician/whatever?
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The player can cast the Armageddon spell in a couple of Ultima games, which kills everybody except you, Lord British and Batlin.
Monsters, NPCs, all gone.
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Twindragonfang posted...

Raistlin Majere

Hah! He was the first one on my mind.
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PMarth2002 posted...

I'd have to go with one of the big name wizards in D&D too.

Troll_Police_ posted...

The Emperor of Mankind is objectively stronger than anyone else listed here

I'll admit my warhammer 40k lore is pretty hazy, but isn't he the most powerful psyker, not a mage?

Lokarin posted...

Minimum power would have to be at LEAST an AD&D Level 8 Wizard, which had the ability to cast pre-nerf Wish.

Typo? 8th would be nuts. Its a 9th level spell. You don't get those until 18th level for 1st and 2nd edition and, 17th level for 3rd and 5th. I'm not sure if the spell exists in 4th.

It's been a while, I think lesser wish was 8th level... I'd have to google it
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Rune, Phantasy Star 4, ok?
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PMarth2002 posted...

I'll admit my warhammer 40k lore is pretty hazy, but isn't he the most powerful psyker, not a mage?

i mean, i guess its up to your interpretation. he channels warp energy to pretty much do magic, and that sounds like a magic user to me.

if you include him, he is hands down the strongest

if not then there may actually be some competition to be had
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The King of All Cosmos
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Elminster the Sage from old-ass D&D back in MYYYY DAYYYY.
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DocDelicious posted...

The King of All Cosmos

Is utterly incompetent in every respect of the word. The dopiest katamari cousin could do a better job. Doing nothing at all would be preferable to TKoaC's rule.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

DocDelicious posted...

The King of All Cosmos

Is utterly incompetent in every respect of the word. The dopiest katamari cousin could do a better job. Doing nothing at all would be preferable to TKoaC's rule.

TBF: being able to move/create/destroy stars and planets is a LOT more power than the mere fireballs mentioned so far
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Lokarin posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

DocDelicious posted...

The King of All Cosmos

Is utterly incompetent in every respect of the word. The dopiest katamari cousin could do a better job. Doing nothing at all would be preferable to TKoaC's rule.

TBF: being able to move/create/destroy stars and planets is a LOT more power than the mere fireballs mentioned so far

If we're going by that logic, may as well do away with pitiful wizards entirely. Why bother when there's literally dieties in any number of games?

since the Hitoshura from SMT:N has MAG as a potential stat, and in Canon he literally defeats a number of archangels and beazelbub and oh yeah, Lucifer in order to punch Yahweh in the face and remake the world in his own image, let's just go with that then. Canonically speaking, Hitoshura from Nocturne is literally as strong as it gets, so we may as well end the topic now...
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Lokarin posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

DocDelicious posted...

The King of All Cosmos

Is utterly incompetent in every respect of the word. The dopiest katamari cousin could do a better job. Doing nothing at all would be preferable to TKoaC's rule.

TBF: being able to move/create/destroy stars and planets is a LOT more power than the mere fireballs mentioned so far

If we're going by that logic, may as well do away with pitiful wizards entirely. Why bother when there's literally dieties in any number of games?

since the Hitoshura from SMT:N has MAG as a potential stat, and in Canon he literally defeats a number of archangels and beazelbub and oh yeah, Lucifer in order to punch Yahweh in the face and remake the world in his own image, let's just go with that then. Canonically speaking, Hitoshura from Nocturne is literally as strong as it gets, so we may as well end the topic now...

I mean, TC did say "whatevers".

I was originally going to say Starkiller but then I instantly thought of a ton of people more powerful.
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The Abrahamic God appears in a couple of games.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

i mean, i guess its up to your interpretation. he channels warp energy to pretty much do magic, and that sounds like a magic user to me.

if you include him, he is hands down the strongest

Is there an official stance of where the top dogs of each faction stand against each other? Though I recall there is a lot of "if this happens, so-n-so faction will win" situations. For example if the Silent King ever returns and all Necros were to awaken, they'll win. If the Orks ever form a single WAAAGGH!, they'll win. If the Emperor every return, they'll win. If the full might of the Tyranid ever enter the galaxy, they'll win.

Of course I do feel Warhammer 40k "powerlevel" is so bloated any they will look overpowered compared to most other fictional content but compared to each other, seem "normal"
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InfestedAdam posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

i mean, i guess its up to your interpretation. he channels warp energy to pretty much do magic, and that sounds like a magic user to me.

if you include him, he is hands down the strongest

Is there an official stance of where the top dogs of each faction stand against each other? Though I recall there is a lot of "if this happens, so-n-so faction will win" situations. For example if the Silent King ever returns and all Necros were to awaken, they'll win. If the Orks ever form a single WAAAGGH!, they'll win. If the Emperor every return, they'll win. If the full might of the Tyranid ever enter the galaxy, they'll win.

Of course I do feel Warhammer 40k "powerlevel" is so bloated any they will look overpowered compared to most other fictional content but compared to each other, seem "normal"

i mean, i dont know about "official" but yeah

if the orks ever unified it would be the end of everyone

if a full blown c'tan emerged and unified the necrons its over (they dont especially LIKE the c'tan anymore though)

if the aeldari manage to bring into existence their god of death its over

WHEN the nids all arrive its over

if the emperor were restored its over. (although on that note, GW has confirmed that the loyal primarchs will be returning soon which would have a somewhat similar effect)

it has always sort of been the thing that when comparing sci-fi and fantasy universes 40k is just insanely stronger than everyone else.
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Black_Crusher posted...

Elminster the Sage from old-ass D&D back in MYYYY DAYYYY.

Karsus, the "Momentary God" would easily trump him, and basically every other wizard in Faerun. Or Toril. Or most other worlds.

Being a powerful enough archwizard to steal godhood from the goddess of magic and take her place is pretty impressive. Especially since the new goddess of magic that took his place had to literally rewrite reality and nerf magic itself to prevent any other wizard after him from ever being able to do it again.

(To put it in perspective, "Wish" is a 9th level spell - Karsus could cast 12th level spells)

Raistlin would probably trump Karsus, though, because at least when Raistlin murdered his way into godhood, he was able to KEEP it (even if he WAS a shitty god).


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