Current Events > Man angrily strikes his hookup after finding out that she's a transgender

(+) Yeah! (+)

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

My narrative is take responsibility for making your dealbreakers known. Your response has been no I dont have to do that, youre weird for taking responsibility for yourself.

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

Im the one being consistent in my reasoning - everyone should disclose their dealbreakers. Youre just saying ewww no over and over and avoiding any personal responsibility.

Again, you're still acting like being trans is just some little thing, not a big deal at all.

Im being consistent regardless of what the dealbreaker is. Youve run out of arguments.

No, we're just in different places as to what constitutes normal human discourse.

Youve run out of arguments. Youre stuck using inconsistent logic because thats how you feel.

Again, that you're treating being trans like some little, minor, inconsequential dealbreaker is disingenuous.

Here, let's discuss the whole moronic "most people wouldnt want to have sex with a trans person so its rape" argument in analogy. Back in I think 2012 in Mississippi a poll was conducted which showed that more people in Mississippi wanted interracial marriage to be illegal than wanted it to be legal. Now obviously that's just one poll, but let's pretend thats the mysterous "most people are like me". Now, it seems logical if most people are against interracial marriage they're also against interracial sex.

And since we're talking about race let's apply the one-drop rule. So if you are one-eighth black, but it doesn't show. If you have sex with a white person in Mississippi without informing them of your race. Since we can assume a majority of people would be against such a coupling, is it rape?

Or is this moronic argument of yours ONLY about trans people but yet somehow not transphobic?

SaithSayer posted...

Nibel is just trolling and you're falling for it...

Is it really trolling if people legitimately believe things like that? Even if someone is just playing a part, if the part is realistic, it sort of ceases to be true trolling.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

is this moronic argument of yours ONLY about trans people but yet somehow not transphobic?

Yeah.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Here, let's discuss the whole moronic "most people wouldnt want to have sex with a trans person so its rape" argument in analogy. Back in I think 2012 in Mississippi a poll was conducted which showed that more people in Mississippi wanted interracial marriage to be illegal than wanted it to be legal. Now obviously that's just one poll, but let's pretend thats the mysterous "most people are like me". Now, it seems logical if most people are against interracial marriage they're also against interracial sex.

And since we're talking about race let's apply the one-drop rule. So if you are one-eighth black, but it doesn't show. If you have sex with a white person in Mississippi without informing them of your race. Since we can assume a majority of people would be against such a coupling, is it rape?

Or is this moronic argument of yours ONLY about trans people but yet somehow not transphobic?

Skin color is not a penis.

nemu posted...

Being trans is not some little personal detail. It's a big physical characteristic that changes the entire dynamic of a relationship. For some people, it would not matter at all. For most, it does matter. It's quite telling that you immediately have to go to the idea that someone is transphobic for thinking being trans is sort of a big deal.

ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE!?

The point isn't that I'm saying that it's not a big deal.

It being a big deal to you is not a legal argument.

It being a big deal to most people is not a legal argument.

How is this hard for you to comprehend.

You're totally not trying to defend insane logic to label trans people as rapists though.

nemu posted...

Skin color is not a penis.

So you admit you arbitrarily set the line in the sand at the exact point where you can labeltrans people rapists but you're not transphobic.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Being trans is not some little personal detail. It's a big physical characteristic that changes the entire dynamic of a relationship. For some people, it would not matter at all. For most, it does matter. It's quite telling that you immediately have to go to the idea that someone is transphobic for thinking being trans is sort of a big deal.

ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE!?

The point isn't that I'm saying that it's not a big deal.

It being a big deal to you is not a legal argument.

It being a big deal to most people is not a legal argument.

How is this hard for you to comprehend.

You're totally not trying to defend insane logic to label trans people as rapists though.

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Skin color is not a penis.

So you admit you arbitrarily set the line in the sand at the exact point where you can labeltrans people rapists but you're not transphobic.

No, I'm saying skin color is not a penis. They are not equivalent. That's a faulty argument.

nemu posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Skin color is not a penis.

So you admit you arbitrarily set the line in the sand at the exact point where you can labeltrans people rapists but you're not transphobic.

No, I'm saying skin color is not a penis. They are not equivalent. That's a faulty argument.

You're saying trans people are rapists but non-trans people are not rapists and you have no responsibility and also you are not transphobic.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

supercurrymax posted...

refmon posted...

why didnt he tell him

Why does she have to

Jesus H ****ing Christ.
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nemu posted...

There is no equivalent to it,

Because you want to label trans people as rapists and pretending this is true is the only way you can get away with it.

That's a real piece of **** move to not tell the guy up front.
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nemu posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

Youre completely out of arguments so now youre calling everything disengenous, huh?

Yes, I think this argument of "being trans is not at all a big deal" is either someone being out of touch with the norm (i.e. unironically saying that penises are not a gendered thing, taking the whole feminine penis meme seriously) or being purposely disingenuous.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

There is no equivalent to it,

Because you want to label trans people as rapists and pretending this is true is the only way you can get away with it.

No, you making a false equivalence does not give you some smoking gun.

nemu posted...

Yes, I think this argument of "being trans is not at all a big deal"

NibeIungsnarf posted...

The point isn't that I'm saying that it's not a big deal.

Who's being disingenuous?

nemu posted...

No, you making a false equivalence does not give you some smoking gun.

You said trans people not disclosing they're trans is rape because most people think its icky icky poo poo

Now you're changing your argument because you just want to label trans people as rapists.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

nemu posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

Youre completely out of arguments so now youre calling everything disengenous, huh?

Yes, I think this argument of "being trans is not at all a big deal" is either someone being out of touch with the norm (i.e. unironically saying that penises are not a gendered thing, taking the whole feminine penis meme seriously) or being purposely disingenuous.

You realize youre the only one pushing this being trans is not a big deal thing, right? I guess thatd make you the disengenous one. Ive been saying all topic that if its a dealbreaker you should take responsibility for informing your partner that. Do you not know what dealbreaker means? It means its such a big deal for you that wont continue on if you have that information. So would you like to stop being disengenous?

If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

#lit


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nemu posted...

If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

This is still not a legal argument.

Anything to label transpeople as rapists, though.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

No, you making a false equivalence does not give you some smoking gun.

You said trans people not disclosing they're trans is rape because most people think its icky icky poo poo

Now you're changing your argument because you just want to label trans people as rapists.

Again, skin color is not a penis. Trying to compare the two is not possible.

nemu posted...

Again, skin color is not a penis. Trying to compare the two is not possible.

Because a penis upsets you and only you matter. But the majority of the people in Mississippi think skin colour matters so why does the argument not count for them?

Because you can't use it to label trans people as rapists then.

nemu posted...

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

I'm victim blaming in the sense that if you go into some high crime neighborhood shouting, "oh, look at much money I have" you're most likely going to get robbed. If you go to some shady party in a shady neighborhood with a bunch of people you don't know and intake some kind of substance to the point of passing out, the likelihood of being raped is high. That does not excuse the actions of the criminals, but it's obviously a big "I told you so." If trans people know there are people who react violently yet still hide their status and they are attacked, it does not excuse the attacker, but would have been easily avoidable. What's not avoidable is some guy running up and attacking them because they are trans.

So you're a victim blamer. Got it. Thank you. That clears things up.

Good to know you can't read. If that's all you can say to that paragraph, good luck to you.

Oh there's more.

Because this is what you and others in this topic are doing.

You create scenarios. Little fantasies. Stories, even.

With all these added details like "a bad neighborhood" or "taking drugs" or "they're lying and being deceptive" so you can downplay the victim.

People do it all the time when they're victim blaming. "He was a troubled kid." "Why was she wearing that?" "They were ASKING for it."

All so that you can find justification. Justification for putting everything on them. Putting everything on a trans person to make sure they keep from getting attacked, beaten, murdered. Justification so we as a society don't have to do anything about it?

And who are you trying to find justification for? That guy in the OP who popped that woman out of nowhere?

No of course not. Not you. You hate violence. You'd never condone violence.

Then for who? For who would you create all these cockamamie scenarios to justify putting all the responsibility on the trans person?
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shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

I'm victim blaming in the sense that if you go into some high crime neighborhood shouting, "oh, look at much money I have" you're most likely going to get robbed. If you go to some shady party in a shady neighborhood with a bunch of people you don't know and intake some kind of substance to the point of passing out, the likelihood of being raped is high. That does not excuse the actions of the criminals, but it's obviously a big "I told you so." If trans people know there are people who react violently yet still hide their status and they are attacked, it does not excuse the attacker, but would have been easily avoidable. What's not avoidable is some guy running up and attacking them because they are trans.

So you're a victim blamer. Got it. Thank you. That clears things up.

Good to know you can't read. If that's all you can say to that paragraph, good luck to you.

Oh there's more.

Because this is what you and others in this topic are doing.

You create scenarios. Little fantasies. Stories, even.

With all these added details like "a bad neighborhood" or "taking drugs" or "they're lying and being deceptive" so you can downplay the victim.

People do it all the time when they're victim blaming. "He was a troubled kid." "Why was she wearing that?" "They were ASKING for it."

All so that you can find justification. Justification for putting everything on them. Putting everything on a trans person to make sure they keep from getting attacked, beaten, murdered.

And who are you trying to find justification for? That guy in the OP who popped that woman out of nowhere?

No of course not. Not you. You hate violence. You'd never condone violence.

Then for who? For who would you create all these cockamamie scenarios to justify putting all the responsibility on the trans person?

Your train of logic rolled off the tracks, did a barrel roll, and landed on a cruise liner.

It's very easy: people should avoid circumstances in which chance of harm is greatly increased. If you have knowledge of something, avoid it. It doesn't make the crime any less severe. It shouldn't lessen the punishment for the crime. The crime is all on the criminal, but to say a person has no fault if they could have avoided it entirely with a normal action is dumb.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

Im saying that everyone has the personal responsibility to let a potential partner know their dealbreakers. Everything else is you putting words in my mouth.

And the problem with your statement is that you're putting the onus on the deceiving end of the deception (in the biological sense). You're the one who said the person having sex with the transperson has to take responsibility for their actions. That is downplaying it.

Captain_Qwark posted...

So a question for cryicZ and a few others. Once transitions get to the point where you cant honestly tell...

If you're a straight dude and don't want to bang, date, kiss, etc trans women you are saying the best, realistic thing to do is ask every woman you are trying to get with if they are trans?

I'm honestly curious if that's your stance

If its that important to you, why wouldn't you do exactly that?

I'm so confused as to why thats anyone else's responsibility.

nemu posted...

It's very easy: people should avoid circumstances in which chance of harm is greatly increased. If you have knowledge of something, avoid it. It doesn't make the crime any less severe. It shouldn't lessen the punishment for the crime. The crime is all on the criminal, but to say a person has no fault if they could have avoided it entirely with a normal action is dumb.

Ah, so "if you have knowledge of something, avoid it". The knowledge in this case being that if you're transgender, you have a much greater chance of people killing you.

Because people can't control themselves.

Just, you tell them you're trans, and they just... lose their goddamn mind. Can't do anything about it.

Oh, look here.

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2018/9/07/these-are-trans-people-killed-2018#media-gallery-media-4

I'm sure these 20 murdered transgender people could have prevented their deaths if only they weren't sneaky or deceptive.
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shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

Im saying that everyone has the personal responsibility to let a potential partner know their dealbreakers. Everything else is you putting words in my mouth.

And the problem with your statement is that you're putting the onus on the deceiving end of the deception (in the biological sense). You're the one who said the person having sex with the transperson has to take responsibility for their actions. That is downplaying it.

Youve completely run out of arguments so youre putting words in my mouth repeatedly.

You have a responsibility to yourself to let a potential partner know your dealbreakers. It is not anyone elses fault for not knowing what is personally a dealbreaker for you. Do you have an actual counter argument or are you going to put more words in my mouth?

You're totally dancing around the entire issue and just sticking with dealbreakers over and over and over. It's like you cannot actually argue the point, but you don't want to lose.

Captain_Qwark posted...

So a question for cryicZ and a few others. Once transitions get to the point where you cant honestly tell...

If you're a straight dude and don't want to bang, date, kiss, etc trans women you are saying the best, realistic thing to do is ask every woman you are trying to get with if they are trans?

I'm honestly curious if that's your stance

If the alternative is that you haul off and attack them if they in any way deceive you, then yes, absolutely.

Because quite frankly, that is the scenario being put to me here today by certain posters: that men just cannot handle the idea that a prospective encounter could be trans.
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CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

It's very easy: people should avoid circumstances in which chance of harm is greatly increased. If you have knowledge of something, avoid it. It doesn't make the crime any less severe. It shouldn't lessen the punishment for the crime. The crime is all on the criminal, but to say a person has no fault if they could have avoided it entirely with a normal action is dumb.

Ah, so "if you have knowledge of something, avoid it". The knowledge in this case being that if you're transgender, you have a much greater chance of people killing you.

Because people can't control themselves.

Just, you tell them you're trans, and they just... lose their goddamn mind. Can't do anything about it.

Oh, look here.

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2018/9/07/these-are-trans-people-killed-2018#media-gallery-media-4

I'm sure these 20 murdered transgender people could have prevented their deaths if only they weren't sneaky or deceptive.

Now the cruise liner has sunk. I'm sort of confused how you got to this point. Did you miss where I explicitly said random acts of violence are not something that can be avoided. Being trans in public is not something I would consider something avoidable. Living your life is not avoidable. Choosing to sleep with people without disclosing their status as trans is avoidable. They can find someone accepting of who they are.