Poll of the Day > Fed. jury finds Paul Manafort guilty on 8/18 charges. Michael Cohen pled guilty.

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ClarkDuke
08/21/18 10:15:58 PM
#51:


Amuseum posted...
18 charges , nothing to do with Russia.

so why should we care about this investigation?

You should care about every investigation, ok?
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Mead
08/21/18 11:01:06 PM
#52:


Posts not even directed at Zeus are attempts to troll him specifically apparently

He really lacks any self control
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darkknight109
08/21/18 11:01:34 PM
#53:


Zeus posted...
darkknight109 posted...
Mead posted...
By dirt

Do you mean crimes

Didn't you get the memo? Crimes are totally OK, as long as a politician you like (or someone tied to them) is the one committing them.

#FishingExpedition


Scrutinizing individuals up and down just to see if they committed any crimes is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. If either one of you was being investigated for robbery and, when the cops can't find anything, they decide to turn around to investigate whether you've been selling drugs, paying your taxes, looking into what your friends are doing, search your computers just in case you have child porn, etc, you might understandably cry foul. And that's the fundamental issue with fishing expeditions, you keep digging until you something -- anything -- and sooner or later you're going to find that somebody has broken a law of some kind. This investigation has increasingly become clear that it's just to find *anything* rather than things pertaining to allegations of Russian interference, especially given that the biggest claims of Russian interference -- including rigging polls -- have been debunked, which is why the goalposts have been moved to things like ad buys.

Hey man, I agreed with you. Like you just said, it's totally OK to commit crimes as long as it's someone you like who's doing it. I mean, come on, that case against Manafort is totally just some (pardon the pun) Trumped-up charges. Really, who hasn't done a little tax fraud before, amirite?

And so what if Cohen bought off women with Trump's own hush money in an attempt to affect the outcome of an US presidential election? That doesn't sound all that bad to me. Why Hilary probably did way worse! And if she didn't, I'll just make up some stuff and say she did!

I mean yeah, OBVIOUSLY if you look into someone hard enough you're going to find one or two or eighteen little Class D felonies, but really, can anyone here honestly say that they *haven't* tried to hide millions in offshore accounts or pay six figure bribes in election fraud? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all.

Trump's right, this whole thing is just a big witch hunt. Sure, Mueller may have indicted five Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, and two other citizens (one American, one British), but is this really all that different to any other president? I'm pretty sure all of us remember when Obama went through the same thing, just like W. and Clinton and Bush too. But then the media has to go and make a big deal out of it like it's unusual for a foreign country to be meddling in American elections or for a candidate to bribe his way to victory... it's all a bunch of biased hogwash if you ask me.
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Mead
08/21/18 11:12:16 PM
#54:


#rekt
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slacker03150
08/21/18 11:12:44 PM
#55:


streamofthesky posted...
Couldn't he literally order Air Force One to fly him to Russia on Jan 5, 2021 (or pick whatever date before new term starts) and leave w/o him?
Among other less outlandish "brazenly waltz right out of U.S. custody before losing power" schemes


A Peruvian president did that once. Embezzeled a ton of money and moved to Japan.

He may have the power to pardon himself and just save all the time. But that would have to be ruled by the courts as well.
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The Popo
08/21/18 11:34:47 PM
#56:


Lets be honest... if Trump were ever removed from office, were getting some deja vu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qC2b6ibOK0" data-time="

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Zeus
08/22/18 3:18:35 AM
#57:


Mead posted...
Posts not even directed at Zeus are attempts to troll him specifically apparently

He really lacks any self control


"Posts with Zeus's name in them and meme images with Zeus's name in them aren't directed at Zeus. Oh, by the way, I'm not trolling." - Mead

But it's a pretty Mead thing to do to pretend that things with a person's name in them aren't directed at that person.

darkknight109 posted...
Hey man, I agreed with you. Like you just said, it's totally OK to commit crimes as long as it's someone you like who's doing it. I mean, come on, that case against Manafort is totally just some (pardon the pun) Trumped-up charges. Really, who hasn't done a little tax fraud before, amirite?


Your sarcastic response is basically pushing, "Well, it was okay to do this because they eventually found rope to hang them with," which is a pretty bullshit blase attitude to have. Like I said before, breaking into somebody's home and finding a body doesn't magically justify breaking into somebody's home in the first place. And breaking into soembody's home and not finding a body so you decide to check their computer to see if they did anything illegal, check their bathroom cupboards to make sure that they don't have drugs, etc, and keeping going until you eventually find something is a pretty shitty way to go about things.

That aside, your sarcasm *does* underscore a political reality: Shine a bright enough light on any administration and you'll find plenty of people doing *something* illegal. However, if you have a stated purpose for your investigation and you're going through shit not even close to being related to that stated purpose, you're clearly on a fishing expedition. And if the justice department is merely being used as a political tool to keep digging until they find something -- anything -- that could remove an official, that's a pretty serious problem because that's some fucking third-world shit right there.
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Mead
08/22/18 3:25:16 AM
#58:


Zeus posted...
But it's a pretty Mead


Daww shucks
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Zeus
08/22/18 3:58:51 AM
#59:


Mead posted...
Zeus posted...
But it's a pretty Mead


Daww shucks


agwRgmVDJceZO
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darkknight109
08/22/18 4:26:24 AM
#60:


Zeus posted...
Your sarcastic response is basically pushing, "Well, it was okay to do this because they eventually found rope to hang them with," which is a pretty bullshit blase attitude to have. Like I said before, breaking into somebody's home and finding a body doesn't magically justify breaking into somebody's home in the first place.

That implies that the original breaking-in was illegal; it wasn't in this case.

If the police have a warrant to search your house because they suspect you of robbery and they don't find any stolen property, but they *do* find drugs, you are absolutely, 100% going to get charged with drug possession. That has long been established as completely legitimate conduct. If you stand in front of a judge and argue, "Well, they wouldn't have found the drugs if they didn't search my house for a crime I didn't commit, so you should totally let me go," you'd be laughed right out of the court room.

In this case it's even more clear. Robert Mueller, in the original order that laid out the scope of his investigation, was explicitly authorized to investigate both issues of Russian collusion and "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".

His investigation's primary purpose was to investigate whether the Russian government and the Trump campaign conspired to illegally influence the US election. That is, by necessity, going to involve investigating whether Trump officials violated campaign laws and whether Russians violated campaign laws, as well as whether they did so at the behest of the other. So far, Mueller has confirmed that five Trump officials violated election laws, ranging from being unregistered agents of a foreign government (Manafort, Gates), to making unlawful campaign contributions (Cohen), to making false statements about unreported contacts with the Russian government (Papadopoulos, Flynn), as well as that 26 Russian nationals (including 12 intelligence officers and an oligarch with close ties to Putin) interfered in the election to help Trump win.

We also now have credible accusations from Michael Cohen and others that:
-Trump knew about and agreed to reimburse Cohen for paying hush money to two porn stars, which is a violation of campaign finance laws
-Trump knew in advance and authorized a meeting with a Russian lawyer that claimed ties to the Russian government and promised dirt on Hilary Clinton.

And that last one, right there? That's the collusion that Mueller has been after from the beginning. The one that Trump insisted never happened and made countless public denials about. And now we have someone offering sworn testimony - someone who is pretty much as close to Trump as you can get without being a family member - confirming it.

You can keep calling it a fishing expedition or a witch hunt or whatever other pet name Trump is using this week, but the facts are now being laid bare. We now know for a fact that both the Trump campaign and the Russians were engaged in dirty dealing in the election and the evidence and testimony that has emerged has now tied the two together.

Trump colluded. Game over.
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Star_Spirit
08/22/18 4:28:21 AM
#61:


https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/cohen-willing-to-tell-mueller-about-conspiracy-to-collude-lawyer/
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darkknight109
08/22/18 4:30:53 AM
#62:


Zeus posted...
Shine a bright enough light on any administration and you'll find plenty of people doing *something* illegal.

It's weird, then, how this has literally never happened before in the history of the United States. You can't make the claim "Well, everyone does it", when nobody has ever done it before.

And it's not like this is one bad actor or anything like that - five separate people (so far) from the campaign have been charged, and this is almost assuredly not the end of it, especially when there are significant allegations being made against people like Jared Kushner and Don Jr.

Zeus posted...
And if the justice department is merely being used as a political tool to keep digging until they find something -- anything -- that could remove an official, that's a pretty serious problem because that's some fucking third-world shit right there.

"Something", in this case, being multiple felonies and election law violations.

Fucking hell, you make it sound like they're being brought up on jaywalking charges. These men defrauded the United States and their violations of the law could very well have altered the outcome of a presidential election! Why do you still refuse to recognize that this is a big deal?
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HarbingerofHope
08/22/18 4:32:55 AM
#63:


Zeus posted...
If either one of you was being investigated for robbery and, when the cops can't find anything, they decide to turn around to investigate whether you've been selling drugs, paying your taxes, looking into what your friends are doing, search your computers just in case you have child porn, etc, you might understandably cry foul. And that's the fundamental issue with fishing expeditions, you keep digging until you something -- anything -- and sooner or later you're going to find that somebody has broken a law of some kind.

Well, first of all, if that happened to me, no evidence of a crime would be found. Second of all, if they were investigating me for robbery, and they found a baggie of meth at the scene of the crime, and then watched the security camera footage that showed me dropping it and charged me for it? Yeah, that'd be fair, and it's more or less what happened here.
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Kyuubi4269
08/22/18 4:33:52 AM
#64:


darkknight109 posted...
Fucking hell, you make it sound like they're being brought up on jaywalking charges. These men defrauded the United States and their violations of the law could very well have altered the outcome of a presidential election! Why do you still refuse to recognize that this is a big deal?

Because it was achieved by capitalism using capitalistic values.
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Scloud posted...
Its like he wants two things at the same time.
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Blighboy
08/22/18 6:40:34 AM
#65:


Zeus posted...
That aside, your sarcasm *does* underscore a political reality: Shine a bright enough light on any administration and you'll find plenty of people doing *something* illegal.

I change my mind, this is now the dumbest thing Zeus has ever said.
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Fam_Fam
08/22/18 7:25:36 AM
#66:


it was in the scope of the allowed investigation.
if it was not, it would be thrown out. and it won't be, because it was within the scope.
the tree is not poisoned. end of story.
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ClarkDuke
08/23/18 3:21:45 AM
#67:


Blighboy posted...
Zeus posted...
That aside, your sarcasm *does* underscore a political reality: Shine a bright enough light on any administration and you'll find plenty of people doing *something* illegal.

I change my mind, this is now the dumbest thing Zeus has ever said.

By far, ok?
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PuddingBoy
08/23/18 3:48:09 AM
#68:


I wonder what Dear Leader has to say about this...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1032495180530835456?s=21

Ah yes, of course. Thank god he found the caps lock at 1 in the morning
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Mead
08/23/18 4:18:47 AM
#69:


PuddingBoy posted...
I wonder what Dear Leader has to say about this...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1032495180530835456?s=21

Ah yes, of course. Thank god he found the caps lock at 1 in the morning


I think I know where he learned his technique

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
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ClarkDuke
08/23/18 10:06:55 PM
#70:


Mead posted...
PuddingBoy posted...
I wonder what Dear Leader has to say about this...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1032495180530835456?s=21

Ah yes, of course. Thank god he found the caps lock at 1 in the morning


I think I know where he learned his technique

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

So that's why Donald Trump is so adamant about no Jewish members at his country clubs.
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