Board 8 > Sir Chris Music Mafia 7: Something Music Related

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Sheep007 posted...

I think I played with him a few times years ago and he was similar, which is why I'm asking this instead of being suspicious, but is Death normally quite non-confrontational? I felt like he'd been contributing when reading his posts as an observer, but there doesn't seem a lot of bite or aggression in his play. The vote on me particularly seemed that way, to pick a more recent thing, since effectively all I said was I wasn't going to claim and he peeled off me, without any really effort to get a claim.

I don't know about non- confrontational, I think he just posts at odd hours by nature of geography and doesn't get to directly interact as much as he'd like.

He has thrown shade at my every action this game though. While he obviously has a bias against me at the moment, I feel like 80% of the comments he's made about me have been about trying to contirbute to conversation.
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Also if I was scum I'd just claim vanilla...I think I have historically done that every single time.
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benjamin3740 posted...

Sheep007 posted...

Ooh one of my top scumreads is here and voting the other. I'd like to see how this one goes.

Hey, man, claim please.

Woah man, wanna take me to a movie first?

For what reason do you want me to claim? You think I havent said enough for you to garner a read? Let's talk this out instead then.

Sure, watcha want to see, Ant-Man 2?

I'd like you to claim because you're one of my bigger scum reads, and honestly, I think if we can get a few more claims going today we'll clear up the game a lot more. There's so many power claims, probably too many, and I want to see if there's any more, so we can perhaps narrow down which of them is lying. Additionally, I do have a read, and my read is mostly of someone trying to fly under the radar and be mostly non-confrontational. Again, as with Death, I'm not sure if you're always like this, but unlike with Death I don't think I've ever been in a game with you so I don't have any past behaviour to judge you off (however hazy my memory may be).
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benjamin3740 posted...

Also if I was scum I'd just claim vanilla...I think I have historically done that every single time.

Is that what you're planning on doing this time, then?
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So ben are you claiming scum?
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Sheep007 posted...

EDumey posted...

Available a little earlier than normal! I did a once over, but I'm going to read through a bit slower and see what sticks out to me. If anyone has specific questions for me, I should be pretty free to answer for the next few hours.

What're your thoughts on...

MZero and Han's interaction earlier in this day
Tange
Sultan
Crescent and Red

Doesn't need to be urgent but I'd like to hear it once you catch up

I posted shortly after MZero and Han's bout. I mentioned a little bit of a paranoia about how it felt like scum had noticed me as a easy misdirect, and Han mentioned that as well. So my town surivival instint makes me immediately agree with Han. However, I'm not sure what to feel about Han claiming to set him up as bait before seitching to IGCD. I know from Day 1 that Han seems to like this style of prodding for reactions, but it seems to be like he is setting up a lynch target, and switching off quickly when it doesn't gather steam. Ultimately I think Han comes off looking awkward here. Still undecided on MZero as a whole.

For Tange, this may come off as mean, but when I last played with him a couple years ago he was still new and didn't have developed reads yet. We lost a game as town because he couldn't trust my read in the final four scenario. My gut tells me he's not an analytical player. So when he comes in for comments here or there but isn't really part of a conversation, it looks like coasting. Of all my reads, Tange is probably the most personality based of them, but that's mostly because he hasn't had a lot of content.

Sultan I don't like. I don't think Panthera and Sultan both exist in this setup. We have too much protection. The claim seems genuine because it's such an odd one to make, but it definitely is something that could be premeditated on a scum board. My biggest "bad" read on Sultan was when he was going after Corrik with really tenuous (this is my word of the game btw) arguments. But I suppose he could be inexperienced town tunneling on Corrik because he doesn't believe there would be two BG. If he's telling the truth the behavior makes sense. I think if Panth flips town at any point, we lynch Sultan, and vice versa.

Crescent and Red together? May have to read again because I don't recall specific interaction there. I asked twice about whether or not Crescent had a history of crusading for inactives, and was ignored both times. other people did bring up this behavior later, but still no one has answered about her history.

Red strikes me as definitely the most likely scum of the inactive pool. Corrik had a strong read on him Day 1 as "Red provides useful content as town, this Red is fluff." I know Red is a respected player, and I was giving him time to play the game, but he honestly hasn't improved that much. I did think I liked his posts at the beginning of Day 2 when he had an active streak. But that hasn't continued.

I've only just now realized that I have mostly negative opinions on everyone you asked about. For a quick breakdown I'd say Sultan and Tange are my biggest worries of that group of six, with a lot of hesitantance toward Han and Red.
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Oops i wrong tab posted on my phone.

So both igcd and crescent ignored what i actually posted last night and went lol list. Stealth lazy posting, tbh.

this might be the biggest red flag against scare that I've seen to date

so zam claims watcher
then tony just says "aw, you tried" and votes Zam

then scare posts

ScareChan posted...

Tony did you counter claim Zam?

it's kind of important for you to be clear here so we can figure out where to go from here

compare that to Town Corrik's take on the matter

Corrik posted...

a good town player wouldn't have claimed watcher today to counter him.

And I have to admit that I in absolutely no way whatsoever think for a second that encouraging Tony to claim watcher was remotely worth it counter Zam.

Sheep007 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Sheep007 posted...

Ooh one of my top scumreads is here and voting the other. I'd like to see how this one goes.

Hey, man, claim please.

Woah man, wanna take me to a movie first?

For what reason do you want me to claim? You think I havent said enough for you to garner a read? Let's talk this out instead then.

Sure, watcha want to see, Ant-Man 2?

I'd like you to claim because you're one of my bigger scum reads, and honestly, I think if we can get a few more claims going today we'll clear up the game a lot more. There's so many power claims, probably too many, and I want to see if there's any more, so we can perhaps narrow down which of them is lying. Additionally, I do have a read, and my read is mostly of someone trying to fly under the radar and be mostly non-confrontational. Again, as with Death, I'm not sure if you're always like this, but unlike with Death I don't think I've ever been in a game with you so I don't have any past behaviour to judge you off (however hazy my memory may be).

Hmm. Well I definitely can't say I'm always like that. But that doesn't mean I'm like that as scum either. Then again I put survivability over everything else as scum, which in turn is why I always end up claiming vanilla.

I'm definitely most aggressive when people disagree with me, or when I am needed to save someone I think is a mislynch. Not much of that has happened yet. I had to stick my neck out for Zach a few times, but the people I think are town are in no threat of dying. The thing I'm most concerned about now is figuring out who is a better lynch than Panth before tonight.
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*worth it to counter Zam

like Scare's play aligns perfectly with what my reaction was on day 1, which was scum probably told him to claim watcher to get a potential watcher outed.

Sheep007 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Also if I was scum I'd just claim vanilla...I think I have historically done that every single time.

Is that what you're planning on doing this time, then?

I don't have any "plans", no.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

Whoever pointed out the Tange/MZero voting each other thing...is likely onto something.

Honestly what are the odds that with all the power claims and panth and easy safe suspects like red and pj, that Town Tange and Town MZero both try to kill each other, through all the chaos around them?

Han likes MZero and I like Han well enough, plus MZero stands alone whereas Tange followed onto MZero (I think?)

I would guess Tange is Scum and MZero is Town.

Yeah, Tange looked really bad for hopping on the me/MZero kerfuffle, and I would've gone all Ace Attorney on him if it wasn't for IGCD getting me riled up.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Also really digging the PJ replace, I feel like Sheep has already added more to the game than PJ did.

Sheep007 posted...

Sure you don't like me just cause I called you town, IGCD mate?

Honestly PJ was one of my scumreads as an observer, although Ben and Red were both stronger ones. I don't feel like my new perspective adds much, since PJ barely interacted with anyone himself (although others commented on him, it was mostly similar stuff. Blah blah inactive blah blah doing nothing, which to fair was basically true. People who I'm reading Town like Puns voted him seemingly out of frustration at times).

This exchange looks kinda like IGCD trying to boost up his new Scummate and that new Scummate trying to keep an arm's separation.

You are really flip flopping on me being scum/town arent you?
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Puns, I think you're misconflating ideal individual player strategy and things that are good for town.

A good player in Tony's would try to lynch Zam without claiming, so he doesn't out himself as watcher.

If he already has, the best option for town is to nail scum to the wall.

I understand that you're pointing out role fishing, which is definitely a scum tactic, but I'm not sure making sure we can lynch scum day 1 when a counter claim is already potentially on the table is a red flag.

Maybe it's just because I agree with a lot or Scare's recaps and have him on my Town list, but throwing shade with poor conflation like this rubs me the wrong way.
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I don't think "a counter claim is already potentially on the table" actually means anything

specifically the word "potentially"

Like, it wasn't on the table. It just wasn't.

turbopuns2 posted...

*worth it to counter Zam

like Scare's play aligns perfectly with what my reaction was on day 1, which was scum probably told him to claim watcher to get a potential watcher outed.

This maybe be true but Scum Scare in ny experience coasts hard and he has been analytical this game, doing re-reads and ISOs. I don't think scum Scare ever stays up until like 4am or whatever he did recently analyzing posts.

Speaking of which time for me to go to bed but I'll be back before deadline
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Multiple people noticed it. It wasn't just Scare. It was specifically worded that a lot of people immediately jumped to the assumption.
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Dumey: I agree with your thoughts on Han. He looks a little erratic at times, jumping from one lynch to another quite often. What's worse to me is who he's voted today. I know I'm Town, and I'm confident MZero is based partially on his reactions to Han, while I also lean slightly Town on God. It feels a little to me like Han keeps trying to kick-start a potential lynch on Town, since there's not really been one focused set of votes yet today (partially, in my opinion, because most Scum are shy about voting rights now), and then, as you said, leaps off it when it fails to gather steam. He's probably the one I feel worst about of those I would call stronger and active players based on this game so far.

Yeah, I specifically asked you for some if those who are generally seen as scummy by the game at large (potentially with the exception of Crescent) to see if you had any different opinions to the others I've seen so far. I'll definitely keep this post in mind should I still be alive once a few of these flip.
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EDumey posted...

Red strikes me as definitely the most likely scum of the inactive pool. Corrik had a strong read on him Day 1 as "Red provides useful content as town, this Red is fluff." I know Red is a respected player, and I was giving him time to play the game, but he honestly hasn't improved that much. I did think I liked his posts at the beginning of Day 2 when he had an active streak. But that hasn't continued.

Vote him then.
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EDumey posted...

Multiple people noticed it. It wasn't just Scare. It was specifically worded that a lot of people immediately jumped to the assumption.

Tony himself sure seems to have felt like specifically Scare made him claim.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

Why would you....the...fffff

As watcher, why in the world would you counter Zam, of all people, on day 1???

Fuckin A

Not worth

I know, it sucks. I tried to hint at it without blatantly saying it, but Scare saw right through it.

Im guessing hes scum power of some sort, so its not a bad trade off.

and there's also this from scare a little later

ScareChan posted...

I needed to confirm Tony because otherwise zam gets zam pass today and scum may have put it together also

I also asked you to claim earliar and you didnt even look my way so it was scum or power for you anyways from my perspective so it seemed like you just coming clean was the way to go

What does "scum may have put it together" really threaten to do? Like if town didn't realize Tony was Watcher and scum did, so what? It's not like having Tony blatantly claim watcher has gained us anything.

"Red flag" doesn't mean I'm lynching Scare today. It just means it is the most objectively suspicious thing on his record in my eyes.

Also scare directly fished for Tony's claim even prior to Zam claiming, fwiw.

Votals from D2 are really hard to find... They weren't even posted at the end of the day aside from Panth, as far as I can see (might have missed something). I want to take a gander at Ben's voting history... Be back in a bit
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##Unvote:sheep/pj

He isnt near the top of my list anymore still leaning red
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TBH, it was mostly the argument about Scare's take compared to Corrik's take that got me to reply. I think both are valid town reactions.
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Sheep007 posted...

Dumey: I agree with your thoughts on Han. He looks a little erratic at times, jumping from one lynch to another quite often.

I think this is more indicative of Town Han than Scum Han. Scum Han will find a place to stick his vote and harp on it as long as he can get away with it while keeping up a productive outer appearance. Scum Han is lazier and leans more on charisma than action.

Voltrons gonna delay me a bit with posting now

But I am not faulting Scare for making Tony more clear about his dangerously obvious to scum softclaim.

Also I am not the type to start crusades often, Sheep. (Which is probably a negative quality, but whatever)
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I do agree with you Puns. That was one of the reasons I voted for Scare in Twilight.

He's just such a driving force for good right now that I want to believe he's town. If Panthera is scum then his townliness is even more likely.
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turbopuns2 posted...

I think this is more indicative of Town Han than Scum Han. Scum Han will find a place to stick his vote and harp on it as long as he can get away with it while keeping up a productive outer appearance. Scum Han is lazier and leans more on charisma than action

That's handy to know, I'll just have to trust you on his prior behaviour.
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benjamin3740 posted...

The only person he called out like this is Red, which makes it feel like there is deeper context behind it. Did anyone else use the word "idiot"?

I checked if anyone had called him an idiot in topic. Couldn't find anything. It was heavily implied a couple times but he came out with it himself prior to me.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

He isnt near the top of my list anymore still leaning red

Then vote him.

Why was PJ at the top of your list anyway, and why did your mind change so quickly? I know you've been a bit flighty with votes, but I don't like how you're putting them on and then removing them, since it shows there's no weight or reason behind them.
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I really dont think we can reliably use that data. Zam might have been genuinely overreacting and seeing insults that werent there.
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Sultan feels like a pitbull on a leash, waiting to attack someone.. anyone.
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Red have you voted? IIRC, you are in support of keeping Panthera alive today, so who do we go to alternatively?
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And did Panth ever say whether his blocked power was lost?
I feel like he's not around as much as he should be.
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htaeD posted...

I really dont think we can reliably use that data. Zam might have been genuinely overreacting and seeing insults that werent there.

The dude pretty clearly has something wrong with him. I dont really want to speculate on what.

htaeD posted...

Also I am not the type to start crusades often, Sheep. (Which is probably a negative quality, but whatever)

I'm totally fine with that, everyone has different play styles than others, and a game full of Corriks would probably get unbearable, no matter how much I enjoy playing with one of him.
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##Vote: Tange

htaeD posted...

And did Panth ever say whether his blocked power was lost?
I feel like he's not around as much as he should be.

He said it wasn't, if I recall correctly.
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benjamin3740 posted...

EDumey posted...

Red strikes me as definitely the most likely scum of the inactive pool. Corrik had a strong read on him Day 1 as "Red provides useful content as town, this Red is fluff." I know Red is a respected player, and I was giving him time to play the game, but he honestly hasn't improved that much. I did think I liked his posts at the beginning of Day 2 when he had an active streak. But that hasn't continued.

Vote him then.

Maybe with two scum lynches already we can afford to go inactive hunting. But that's not really my priority. I haven't had a lot of active votes this game because I havent been present enough for active scum hunting. But you're right, I should be more proactive with my vote.

##Vote: Han

I'd like to hear Han respond to Scare in some detail when he comes back. I'm gonna go back and read through Han/MZero/IGCD and see what I feel about that more. BRB y'all.
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Sheep007 posted...

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

He isnt near the top of my list anymore still leaning red

Then vote him.

Why was PJ at the top of your list anyway, and why did your mind change so quickly? I know you've been a bit flighty with votes, but I don't like how you're putting them on and then removing them, since it shows there's no weight or reason behind them.

Pj was more or less beacuse of him being inactive and when he came in he gave 0 content and then went on to making things up and swearing at people calling and such but sheep came in and helped that spots case a bit and now they are back in the not sure could be either camp.

And I'm not going to vote again yet gonna re read a little and make a better informed decision so I dont keep flip flopping or being "flighty"
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benjamin3740 posted...

Red have you voted? IIRC, you are in support of keeping Panthera alive today, so who do we go to alternatively?

I'm leaning igcd or mzero right now. Honestly just dont think either has said anything that ultimately amounts to much.

htaeD posted...

And did Panth ever say whether his blocked power was lost?
I feel like he's not around as much as he should be.

Blocked abilities never lose power, its an effective no action for the night except in the case of double roleblock.

I know in some CE games, blocked powers would be lost. It's likely that some games on the mafia community board may have followed that rule, too.

EDumey posted...

I'd like to hear Han respond to Scare in some detail when he comes back.

About what?

##Unvote: Sheep

You gave your answer anyway, so I can accept "not miller" as enough of a claim.

Can we get a show of hands from people who think Red and/or Tange are likely Scum? I have a feeling this is trending to be one of those "everyone has said it, so it's probably true situations"... at least concerning Red. And it would make Rik happy.
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Pj was more or less beacuse of him being inactive and when he came in he gave 0 content and then went on to making things up and swearing at people calling and such but sheep came in and helped that spots case a bit and now they are back in the not sure could be either camp.

And I'm not going to vote again yet gonna re read a little and make a better informed decision so I dont keep flip flopping or being "flighty"

I'm glad you're at least thinking the votes through. They have no weight if the case behind them is quite basic.

I'd like to ask you something which I'm not sure you've been asked much: who do you think is Town, and why? You can't say Tony, Eaed, Puns, or Scare, and I'd like at least three picks with some reasoning behind them, even if you're not certain on it.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

You are really flip flopping on me being scum/town arent you?

You really like simplifying arguments like this. It comes across as Scummy. I'd probably hop right back on you, but I recall us having had spats in the past as Town/Town, so I personally think it's more likely that our mafia personalities just clash.
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Scare did a large recap of Topic 2 in which he pointed out posts of yours he didn't like. I'm not asking for a detailed reply to everything or get super defensive, but I'd prefer you not ignore it.
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I think it's pretty safe to assume that anyone who hasn't already claimed power or blatantly hinted power is going to be/claim vanilla at this point.

I've decided that we should not lynch Panth, and that everyone who has softclaimed power (Zach and Sheep) should full claim, and then we should probably still lynch from Tange/MZero/IGCD

If you want deeper reasoning, continue reading.

Let's talk about Phoenix Wright mafia for a moment. That game started with 4 straight mafia lynches, and then town fumbled and scum still won.

How did it happen? Well, the game started with a bunch of powers being claimed/killed, etc. The early days were heavily driven by powers and claims.

Then, when 4 scum were down, with a bunch of unscanned vanilla claims left, town decided to chase the lying scanner claims (of which there were none) rather than start killing unscanned vanilla claims.

This was a fatal mistake, because if town had just started narrowing down the possible scan targets by killing unscanned vanillas, over the next few days, everything would have sorted itself out and scum would have run out of room to hide.

By incorrectly killing two scanning claims, town enabled scum to climb back. Scum roleblocker was lynched day 1 and town still threw it away by killing two of their own four scanners.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Can we get a show of hands from people who think Red and/or Tange are likely Scum? I have a feeling this is trending to be one of those "everyone has said it, so it's probably true situations"... at least concerning Red. And it would make Rik happy

I'd say Red's chances of being Scum are about 80%, he's probably the one I'm most sure of but I would rather get more out of Ben right now, and would be similarly happy to lynch him if anyone wants to join me there. I honestly don't have much to say about Tange right now, we definitely need more from him. I do like that he hasn't been afraid to throw a vote on, and while I wouldn't want to lynch him right now, I'd be happy to see a claim from him too.
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More specifically, I posted on the PW scum board insulting town's play, so I do not want to repeat that same mistake myself as town in my very next game.

Sheep007 posted...

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Pj was more or less beacuse of him being inactive and when he came in he gave 0 content and then went on to making things up and swearing at people calling and such but sheep came in and helped that spots case a bit and now they are back in the not sure could be either camp.

And I'm not going to vote again yet gonna re read a little and make a better informed decision so I dont keep flip flopping or being "flighty"

I'm glad you're at least thinking the votes through. They have no weight if the case behind them is quite basic.

I'd like to ask you something which I'm not sure you've been asked much: who do you think is Town, and why? You can't say Tony, Eaed, Puns, or Scare, and I'd like at least three picks with some reasoning behind them, even if you're not certain on it.

Town who are not Tony puns ed or scare alright..

Death I think death has been doing a great job at analyzing and putting really strong reasons behind who is possibly scum. Death seems to be playing very town and hasnt given me any reason to believe other wise.

Fd is obviously town he played his lawyer rule so if you missed that then idk why he wouldn't be on your auto town list.

Crescent-Moon she has been really strong with he reasonings and she's been good at pointing out who scum has been she's been having good arguments against people who are on my might be scum list
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